Lucy Liu Has BAT test redone Today, prayers please..........
 

Lucy Liu is having her BAT redone today after one month of being on denosyl. Her numbers were 1 and 67 last month and a sonogram showed no outside shunt. I am asking for prayers and direction in making the correct decision if her numbers are still that or higher. I will post her results when I get them. Thanks again.

prayers but those numbers are not bad sounds like mvd not a shunt and my dog had 73 on first post then 54 and only on low protein 26 so i do not supplement and she is fine so i would not stress too much about this

Thanks for the input. I have read some of your remarks on others with this issue. Do you think it is necessary to do liver biopsy with these numbers. My vet is saying this is the logical next step. And he says there could be a shunt seen when in there even with these numbers. I thought the numbers had to be over 100 to be a possible shunt.

The number do not have to be over 100 to be a shunt. That is just a general guideline. Those numbers more so indicate MVD though. If she is getting spayed anyway, a biopsy could be done while the vet is in there, but that isn't without some extra risk.

Even if a biopsy was done, a shunt could be missed. This is the only way to definitively diagnose MVD, but usually treating it as MVD, after ruling out a shunt, is an acceptable way to avoid biopsy.

The best test to diagnose a shunt is scintigraphy.

usually over 100

all i can say is if it were mine I would not do liver biopsy as even if it is mvd then putting on low protein diet is all you can do nothing they can do to fix it and anytime you biopsy there is risk and if they biopsy the wrong part of liver it may not show up anyway. Also if my dog was not having any symptoms at all I would only do low protein of 22% if symptoms 18% and go from there.

Now if my dog was having symptoms like seizures i would do scintigraphy to rule out a shunt but usually for shunts they are over 100

my friends dog had post biles of 500 no symptoms nothing so she skipped scintigraphy and had the surgery - I think they did dopler ultrasound back then as this was 7 years ago

I have not yet seen a dog with liver shunt with bats under 100 so once i see that then I would advise differently

And according to Dr. Tobias, 95% of shunt dogs have high preprandial bile acids. Your pup does not, so there is probably about a 95% chance that it is not a shunt... This info hasn't been updated lately though, so the findings may have changed.
Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Lucyliu's numbers are higher
 

Well, unfortunately her BAT numbers came back as 4.3 and 85, substantially higher than a month ago and she was on denasyl for a month. Looks like we will consider a liver biopsy and spay at the specialist. Advice? I am very sad as I hate to think of this procedure. I will still talk to specialist and vet one more time before making this decision.

has your dog had any symptoms at all of liver shunt? If not personally I would not do the biopsy if it was my dog as all they are going to say is yep she has mvd so low protein diet. A dog with mvd will always test high on bats every time but if no symptoms at all and below 100 i would just do 18-22% protein diet and if you want to supplement then denomarin which is milk thistle and sam-e or do them separately to support the liver and juicing zucchine and celery will help. Why did vet only supplement with sam-e and not milk thistle as milk thistle is actually more beneficial. Personally i would have just fed low protein diet prior to testing to see if that affected it as denosyl is just going to support the liver not cure it or lower the bats - the low protein diet would lower the bats so was your dog on low protein diet of 22% or lower?

Denosyl - Pet Liver Medication For Cats & Dogs - 1800PetMeds

here are all the meds for liver support - denamarin has the two things or you can do denosyl (same) and and marin (milk thistle) separately.

1800PetMeds - Search Results

my dog had a post of 73 and with low protein diet went down to a post of 26 after 6 months on 18% protein soy diet. She never had symptoms at all and she was 3 years old when bile acid tested and only reason we did it was because she was going on a drug atopica which affects the liver

she does not get any liver support at this time as our bigger issue is allergies and hypothyroid as the low protein diet solved the high numbers

so the key is here - is the dog having symptoms? also how old is your dog?

i would also approach it this way - if she starts having symptoms at say 1 years old which many do then i would just go straight to scintigraphy to see if a shunt which i doubt yours has and mvd even if liver biopsy there is nothing they can really do other than diet and supplements

keep in mind many vets do not have a clue about liver shunt and mvd and many panic when numbers are abnormal thus freaking out the owner thinking it is a shunt as my vet did this too and i went home read everything i could on it for 24 hrs all nighter like college lol then joined the liver shunt groups and decided no scintigraphy as my dog had NO SYMPTOMS other than skin issues due to liver not cleansing properly but she also has allergies and hypothyroid which are skin related

Sending prayer's for your Lucy Lui. Hope everything works out for her
and you.


Hugs,

I remember when my boyfriends dog had a liver biopsy I was shocked at how large the incision was and how painful the after effects were for him. If we would have known probably would not have done the biopsy.

My Roxy's first BAT was pre: 43 and post: 100.9

We did a U/S ~ which didn't show a shunt.

I have since changed her diet to a low quality protein diet, with added supplements (Hepatosupport and Vetri DMG), along with some other goodies.

She is now 5 years old. We have done about 7 BATs - the pre has come down to below normal, but her post number stays in the 60 to 85 range.

She shows NO "crazy" symptoms. We are treating her as if she has MVD.

I didn't go the biopsy route because she was already spayed, and I didn't want to put her through an intense liver biopsy surgery, when the life maintenance of diet and supplements were going to be the same regardless. I just didn't need a "confirmation of MVD" and I was preety sure she just didn't have a single liver shunt.

You really need to discuss with your specialist, and please voice your concerns to the specialist, and ask for honest advice on this little baby ;)

Prayers for you and little LucyLiu.

I had my vet call the U of Tenn for advice for my dog, the vet there said the number one absolute best thing you can do for any liver challenged dog is get the dog on a low protein diet. My dog's post BAT was 126, so probable Liver Shunt. The U of Tenn vet recommended Hill's Prescription L/D Diet, that is what they have seen the best improvements with. The kibble is 14.5% protein, 20% fat, Brewers rice and pork fat listed as first 2 ingredients. It is important to get them on more easily digestible proteins (vegetable/grain) as the digestion of meat makes more work for the liver. (more byproducts/toxins that need to be filtered out of the bloodstream) as I understand this process.

I, myself, would not do a liver biopsy to diagnose/verify MVD as with BAT under 100, treatment doesn't change. Just IMHO.

Many dogs have a high preprandial result due to the involuntary release of bile acids during the night of fasting prior to the BAT.

The pork fat is no good for liver disease dogs, are you certain that is the #2 ingredient???

What I have heard from my yahoo liver group is that the ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 dry is a highly palatable and digestible dog food, restricted in copper content, and formulated to assist in the management of liver disease in dogs. This kibble they do really, really well on. With the occasional l/d wet if needed.