They have not told you of a nonsurgical way to manage ammonium urate stones because there is no way other than surgery. The stones are forming because of liver problems, so no matter how you cut it, dealing with the liver shunt issue is going to be part and parcel of the stone issue.

I think that is as clear as we or your vets can be. You need to deal with the shunt.

:thumbup: I agree. It's a shame your regular vet didn't address the underlying cause of the stones earlier, but that doesn't help now.

If the urates are caused by LS, they will stop forming after the LS is treated/repaired. Even the meds used for LS prior to surgery can help keep stones from forming, by removing the amonia in the intestines before it reaches the liver and kidneys where the stones are formed. Without the excess amonia going through his system, the stones won't be able to form there.

If he had been put on these meds right after his last surgery in March, these stones would not have formed. Right now, if they are blocking him from urinating, they are then too big to be treated with medicines.

Sometimes ultrasound waves can be used to bust up the stones into small pieces, but I am not sure if this treatment is appropriate for him at this time, you may want to ask the vet.

Hang in there Brodie's Mom. I know you have a lot on you right now with trying to hold down a new job and deal with all these health issues.

Sounds like you have been given good advice and maybe can find some expert help nearby too.

My fingers are crossed for you and Brodie!

Has anyone had a liver shunt surgery done that can explain to me the process and time tables?

Brodie's vet has recommended a holistic diet of pasta/rice with cottage cheese/hard boiled egg to be eaten with potassium-chlorate. They think since the stones are Brodie's only symptom if we are able to control those no surgery would be necessary. I am, however, concerned about the lifespan of my little dog and how sick he could be down the road. Yes, getting rid of his stones would be fantastic, but if we don't close the shunt (if he has one) then wouldn't this lead to a shorter life or more issues?? I've read a LOT about it and it seems the survival rate of surgery is high and about 85% of dogs post surgery can lead an almost normal life! Is that the same prognosis you guys have seen?

Anyone that has had a shunt surgery if you could reach out to me and explain what you and your dog went through pre, post and during surgery I'd greatly appreciate it.

I posted a picture of my little Brodie in my album if anyone wanted to see him.

Thank you all for all your help so far. I really hope that I am able to make Brodie all better soon. This is so hard on us both!

An ultrasound was done by Dr Kramer -
Atlantic Coast Veterinary Specialists is a Veterinary Emergency and Veterinary Referral Hospital located in Bohemia, Long Island, NY. Veterinary referral services include veterinary surgery, veterinary ultrasound, veterinary Endoscopy, veterinary car

He seems quite reputable. My vet is going to get back to me about what he saw in regards to Brodie's liver.

WOOPS - I meant potassium citrate

The procedures used, the success rate of each procedure, and the timeline of it all being done differs greatly from hospitals/clinics, and the vets experience in performing the individual procedures.

Just to let you know, I am a retired vet tech of 20 years, my own dog has LS and is on medications while awaiting further testing and surgery to control her symptoms, and as I stated before in quite a few of my posts to this thread, the most experienced vets, with the highest success rate for ameroid constrictor LS surgery (considered best and safest procedure) in the world, is the University of Tennessee. All the info you ask is contained on their website, I do not have the time to retype it or copy it here. Each hospital performing LS surgery of whatever type should have their statistics listed on their websites. I have done this research, and given you this information. It is your choice at this point in time, to read what I have posted and learn from it, or just ignore me completely. I do not have the time to keep repeating myself.


Your pup's BAT results are very high, from all the results I've ever seen, way higher than my dog's results. If you do not take care of this problem in a timely fashion, you will be putting your pup at risk of permanent liver damage, Hepatic Encephalopathy, possible seizures, and death. In short, if he has a shunt, which his BAT results indicate he does, his blood is being routed around his liver, and the toxins from the food he eats are not being removed from his blood. His blood is basically poison to him. You need to get him on meds to assist his liver and keep it as healthy as possible, until the time you decide to have surgery done to repair (close off ) the shunt.

I wish you luck, and my prayers to you and Brodie for a successful resolution to your dilema.

If your pup's specialists don't think you need to go any farther, then that is their call, but please understand if there is a shunt present, it can cause more b/c of the pressure. This pup needs an internal medicine specialist immediately. Preferably it would be someone who has a ton of experience (Cornell or better yet, UT if surgery is being considered). But really at this point any board certified specialist should be seeing him over a general vet.

I have read EVERYTHING you have posted as well as UP AND DOWN that website. NO where in that website does it say "dogs will have surgery on Monday .... and usually be able to go home in ___ days". I know you have kept up very well with me and should know taht I need an EXACT number of days to ask off from my job. I can't just not show up. So if I take off 4 days and Brodie needs to be there 5 are they going to throw him in a UPS box and ship him back?! I think not! Also, I read the stories of other dogs with shunts. I read nothing about any dog that had survived beyond his initial surgery!? How long after the surgery do they live? Do they live a normal life? Maybe I wasn't clear in my questions. What I wanted to know is anyone that had a shunt dog and what his life was like 1, 3, 5 years down the road. I have been in contact with Dr Center's since I posted. She currently is in Africa, so isn't able to call me or be at the center to look at my little pup. I'm sorry you feel as though I am wasting your time and you keep repeating yourself (which you do, I agree). But the questions I am asking you aren't answering. I know WHERE to bring him. I know he NEEDS surgery. I want to know what that surgery is like for my baby and what his life will be like after. I cried reading the doggy stories on UT's site. How horrible that some people give up their little ones and others get surgeries and die. I hope and pray Brodie doesn't have this luck! Please don't think I am ignoring you. I very much appreciate your help and kindness, I just want more information on what to prepare for for the rest of Brodie's life. He is, after all, only one year old. I hope we have many more years to look forward to together!

With all due respect to Dr. Kramer, this website shows that he is a cardiologist. Cardiologists are heart specialists - not liver specialists. If this were me, I'd be again asking myself why I am flushing my money down the toilet. You are running in a corner with this and for that I feel badly.

Ultrasound can only see a shunt IF THE READER IS VERY EXPERIENCED with looking at the LIVER (not the heart) so chances are you may not find out the full condition of the liver. You need to be with a LIVER specialist.

I have concerns about the "holistic diet" you were given. How much protein is in the diet? Were you given a recipe? There is MUCH misconceptions by vets and owners about how to do a home cooked meal properly for a regular pet let alone a pet with severe liver disease. Did they recommend the Hill's L/D diet? That is the diet of choice in liver shunt babies. I'm not sure what they hope to gain with this diet - are they trying to prevent stones? I'm sorry but the shunt is a far greater concern than the stones IMO.

Here is a suggestion - call UT and ask them what the typical time frame is. They will be able to give you this information. They are the world renowned hospital for shunts. Dr. Karen Tobias invented the procedure. There is NO ONE ON THE PLANET more qualified to perform the ameroid constrictor LS surgery.

Hills faxed the holistic diet recipe to my vet. It wasn't created by her. She called the nutritionalist for hills and spoke with them. They said that he should use the L/D diet which she explained he was already on. They then recommended this. He has been on the Hills L/D diet for 6 months already and has seen no improvements.

This is what Dr. Center's from Cornell said to me : "We do not usee ameroid band constricters at Cornell, rather we tie the shunts off to the dogs individual tolerance determined in surgery. Ameroid constricters contract on their own after being placed around the shunt: some dogs cannot tolerate total ligation and they then develop multiple shunts when the ameroid constricts. To avoid that possibility, some surgeons place a "too large" ameroid that cannot totally occlude the shunt. When it contracts one hopes it optimally tied off the shunt to the dogs tolerance. As I said, we individually tie according to the dogs response, and do not use these constrictors."

As I said, we have been corresponding via email as she is in Africa.