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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Puppy cant balance and is falling over while walking (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/132524-puppy-cant-balance-falling-over-while-walking.html)

Troy1028 06-09-2008 12:48 PM
Thanks to everyone for the prayers and advice. I took him to the surgeon today and they are going to do an ultrasound on Weds. morning. Ill let everyone know what has happened. Thanks again. He is doing good for now except for a couple of bad hours here and there.

TLC 06-09-2008 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy1028 (Post 2040062)
Thanks to everyone for the prayers and advice. I took him to the surgeon today and they are going to do an ultrasound on Weds. morning. Ill let everyone know what has happened. Thanks again. He is doing good for now except for a couple of bad hours here and there.
Hmmm....That's good that a Surgeon has seen him, but to be honest, there are BETTER tests for you to do than a Ultrasound. I know from experience, as others too, that a U/S is really a waste of $ ($700 to exact for me) - B/c a U/S is NOT 100% Accurate / Guaranteed

The U/S is only as good as the person reading it, and regardless, it's not 100%

They may be able to see a shunt or they may not see one and one could be there.

A U/S will however show the accurate size and shape of his liver.

So, honestly if I were you, I'd look into a Protein C test or the scintigraphy (don't know the proper spelling) - But you can read about them on the U of Tenn (Vet Pages) and Cornell Univ.

Also, I'd run a Full Blood Panel and Urine Anaylsis

TINA HOWARD 06-10-2008 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy1028 (Post 2027301)
I got my puppy on Thursday and he was running around playing with the other dogs barking, eating great and acting fine. I took the puppy to the vet on Friday and he got shots ( no lesto) and was found to have ear mites. The vet gave me trasaderm. After getting home the puppy was acting different. Then on Monday he was completely lethargic, falling over while walking and raising his rear legs. He does not play at all and does not seem right. Took him back to the vet yesterday and they did a sugar test and all was ok. He is now walking better today, but is still woblely. The vet said it is probably neurological problems, but said to stop the ear drops and wait a few days. The puppy is 4 months old and weighs 2.5 lbs. I dont understand how it can be a neurological problem when he was fine when he came home. Help....
SOUNDS LIKE THE VET SCREWED UP GIVING YOUR BABY THOSE EAR DROPS AND IS NOW TRYING TO PLAY IT DOWN. HOPE EVERYTHING TURNS OUT OKAY!

mscat 06-10-2008 08:06 PM
I am kind of wondering if your little one got something or was exposed to something at the vets? It is very strange that he was fine, until he went there? This makes me feel so sad and upset for your pup, and you.
I guess I am one to need an explanation , this just does not seem to be adding up well. :aimeeyork I sure am hoping he will be okay. :animal-pa

mypreciouspups 06-10-2008 08:07 PM
Just seeing this and praying your baby is ok.. the breeder will not help you out on this..florida does have laws.. and puppies have to be vet checked and a healthy cert before they can be sold.. you might want to look at what vet did the health cert also...anne

Troy1028 06-12-2008 02:41 AM
Good morning everyone. We went to the ultrasound yesterday and they found the shunt. He is set up for surgery on Weds and is now on meds til then. Ill keep everyone informed. Thanks

bchgirl 06-12-2008 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy1028 (Post 2045707)
Good morning everyone. We went to the ultrasound yesterday and they found the shunt. He is set up for surgery on Weds and is now on meds til then. Ill keep everyone informed. Thanks
Best wishes for your baby...sending prayers from Va. Keep us posted.

spr377 06-12-2008 03:43 AM
Sending good thoughts your way !

puppy_Love08 06-12-2008 04:23 AM
I'm sorry you and your Yorkie are having to go through this. I pray the operation will be successful, and your "baby" will heal quickly and fully.

autumn star 06-12-2008 04:26 AM
Hoping all turns out well for you and your new pup!!!!:thumbup:

bjh 06-12-2008 04:33 AM
I will be praying for your baby. I pray all goes well.

TLC 06-12-2008 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy1028 (Post 2045707)
Good morning everyone. We went to the ultrasound yesterday and they found the shunt. He is set up for surgery on Weds and is now on meds til then. Ill keep everyone informed. Thanks
Praying for he and you. So glad they caught this early.

Ladymom 06-12-2008 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 2040099)
Hmmm....That's good that a Surgeon has seen him, but to be honest, there are BETTER tests for you to do than a Ultrasound. I know from experience, as others too, that a U/S is really a waste of $ ($700 to exact for me) - B/c a U/S is NOT 100% Accurate / Guaranteed

The U/S is only as good as the person reading it, and regardless, it's not 100%

They may be able to see a shunt or they may not see one and one could be there.

A U/S will however show the accurate size and shape of his liver.

So, honestly if I were you, I'd look into a Protein C test or the scintigraphy (don't know the proper spelling) - But you can read about them on the U of Tenn (Vet Pages) and Cornell Univ.

Also, I'd run a Full Blood Panel and Urine Anaylsis
:goodpost:

I know it's a done deal in your case, but for anyone else dealing with this, don't waste your money on a ultrasound. Unfortunately, most vets aren't that experienced with liver shunts and will recommend them, but the results are unreliable. Dr. Tobias (UT) estimates they are only 80% accurate, Dr. Center (Cornell) as low as 60%.

The proper protocol is to do a bile acids test (all Yorkies should have this done as puppies), then depending on the results, the next step is a Protein C test, then a scintigraphy, not an ultrasound.

Whenever possible it is best to take your Yorkie to a vet school as they are much more experienced with dealing with liver shunts.

Yorkieluv 06-12-2008 09:21 AM
Ultrasound is not great for identifying whether or not there is a shunt, but it will show the size of the liver and it will also show if there are bladder stones which are secondary to liver shunt/disease. The types of bladder stones associated with liver problems do not show on x-rays and only show on ultrasound.

belindaY 06-12-2008 10:38 AM
is a shunt really visible on u/s?
 
The OP says the ultrasound shows the shunt. How likely is that to be so since I've read so many things about u/s not being a reliable test for finding an actual shunt? I know in this case the BAT is consistent with liver shunt, but I'm interested in how likely it is for the ultrasound to actually see the shunt. In any case, I hope the puppy recovers fully.

jrsygal37 06-12-2008 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy1028 (Post 2045707)
Good morning everyone. We went to the ultrasound yesterday and they found the shunt. He is set up for surgery on Weds and is now on meds til then. Ill keep everyone informed. Thanks
I just want to commend you for giving this baby a chance. Many would have just dumped him. Thank you for being so caring. It takes a special person to go through all of this for a new pup they just got. Sending prayers that everything works out. I would look into the puppy lemon law in your state and at least get your money back and more if possible. You should be entitled to at least the amount of money you paid out for the pup as I'm sure that the vet bills have exceeded this already. I'm also sure that they knew there was something wrong and this is why it wasn't working out with them in their home. People are horrible. Good luck. Elaine

Ladymom 06-12-2008 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by belindaY (Post 2046653)
The OP says the ultrasound shows the shunt. How likely is that to be so since I've read so many things about u/s not being a reliable test for finding an actual shunt? I know in this case the BAT is consistent with liver shunt, but I'm interested in how likely it is for the ultrasound to actually see the shunt. In any case, I hope the puppy recovers fully.
If you read my response in post #43, I posted the statistics for ultrasound reliability.

U of T estimates they are 80% reliable, Dr. Center/Cornell as low as 60%.

Hepatic Vascular Disorders - WSAVA 2006 Congress

The University of Tennessee - College of Veterinary Medicine - Portosystemic Shunts

The OP was lucky the technician was able to see the shunt on the ultrasound.

belindaY 06-12-2008 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2046787)
If you read my response in post #43, I posted the statistics for ultrasound reliability.

U of T estimates they are 80% reliable, Dr. Center/Cornell as low as 60%.

Hepatic Vascular Disorders - WSAVA 2006 Congress

The University of Tennessee - College of Veterinary Medicine - Portosystemic Shunts

The OP was lucky the technician was able to see the shunt on the ultrasound.
Thanks, I did read that, and have seen this info elsewhere. It sounds so unreliable as to make one wonder why it is used at all for liver shunt diagnostics. The reason I'm harping on this is that I'm involved in a case where the BAT was fairly low--51 post--but the ultrasound report says "there appears to be a large vein...etc." Based on that they want to do surgery and I'm advising against it because BAT 51 is inconsistent with a "large shunt" diagnosed with ultrasound, a known unreliable test. In the puppy in this thread the BAT of 288 is consistent with L/S, making the ultrasound look more believable. Am I way off track here?

Yorkieluv 06-12-2008 02:32 PM
There have been cases of liver shunts with numbers under 100...In fact, one member from YT has a yorkie whose bile acids were under 100, actually in the 50s or 60s I believe and her yorkie had a shunt. I haven't seen her on here for a long time though...

Yorkieluv 06-12-2008 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by belindaY (Post 2046835)
Thanks, I did read that, and have seen this info elsewhere. It sounds so unreliable as to make one wonder why it is used at all for liver shunt diagnostics. The reason I'm harping on this is that I'm involved in a case where the BAT was fairly low--51 post--but the ultrasound report says "there appears to be a large vein...etc." Based on that they want to do surgery and I'm advising against it because BAT 51 is inconsistent with a "large shunt" diagnosed with ultrasound, a known unreliable test. In the puppy in this thread the BAT of 288 is consistent with L/S, making the ultrasound look more believable. Am I way off track here?
Why do they think it is a shunt? Is the pup symptomatic?
I would recommend a protein c test then if necessary a scintigraphy or just straight to the scintigraphy if they have the money and the dog is stable...

Wylie's Mom 06-12-2008 02:41 PM
This is heartbreaking - so sorry your pup is sick - but I am SO proud of you as a human being for not just returning him to this awful breeder. That brings tears to my eyes. He is such a blessed little baby to have you - and I hope you stick around here, because I'm already so impressed by the care you've given this pup. Please update as you can.

THANKS to Yorkieluv, TLC, Ladymom and others too - who are always there for people who go through this confusing and scary diagnosis. I don't know what folks would do without you.

mscat 06-12-2008 08:22 PM
I am so sorry that this has happened to your little pup. :aimeeyork Please keep us posted and updated as to how everything is going. :aimeeyork


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