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-   -   blood panel done on Kacee!!! what to do (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/122432-blood-panel-done-kacee-what-do.html)

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 10:01 AM
blood panel done on Kacee!!! what to do
 
I had a blood panel done on Kacee this morning.. his kidney count was higher then the vet would like in order to do teeth cleaning on him... so I do not know what to do.. she said it is more expensive but she can use something else on him so she can flush out his kidneys while doing his teeth and it is less harmful and much safer.. I have no idea what she is talking about.. can some one help me.. I cannot lose him.. and am so afraid.. I did not book the date yet..

Not sure if I am in the right place with this or not...sorry if it is not..

Ellie May 03-20-2008 10:59 AM
Oh no:(

I would wait on the cleaning for a bit (unless the teeth are so bad that that is what is skewing the kidney enzyme results).
What number was up?
I would want to know why it is up before surgery...

Patti 03-20-2008 12:50 PM
I would wait on putting her out unless it was life threatening not to. Did your vet suggest a specialist? Dixie had off the chart kidney values and I took her to a kidney specialist(nephrologist). I hope it turns out ok.

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 02:12 PM
what the paperwork says
 
ones in the red are... this is what the paper says that the vet gave me.. does not make sense to me...does it to anyone..

ALP 10* 20-150 U/L
BUN 32* 7-25mg/dl


I am not putting him under and his breath smells.. but not doing it when the vet says it is a little off.. she asked if he was drinking a lot of water before I brought him.. but no one said to not let him have any water prior to..

jp4m2 03-20-2008 02:16 PM
I'm so sorry Kacee 's blood work may have a problem, I don't know what it means but I did find a couple of links that might offer you some explanations as to what the numbers mean...wishing Kacee the best....

http://www.bichonfriseusa.com/caninebloodwork.htm

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...EVetID=3001496

http://www.thepetcenter.com/pha/cp.html

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 02:21 PM
Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN)
BUN is a waste product. A low BUN can indicate liver disease, and an increased BUN can indicate severe kidney disease or dehydration.


ALP (Alkaline phosphatase) says liver

I am still not understanding this too well...

jp4m2 03-20-2008 02:35 PM
I'm looking at the numbers also ans it looks like if the ALP is increased it wold indicate a liver problem which your numbers are not increased....and a higher BUN might be kidneys.....I would call the vet and go over these numbers and ask him what you should do next....

I did have a pup once that was dehydrated and she had a high BUN number so it was not the kidneys..... but they also looked at the creatinine number with the BUN and the creatinine was normal, if this had been high too then it would have indicated a kidney problem....

kalina82 03-20-2008 03:04 PM
can i ask what you are feeding Kacee?

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 1863381)
can i ask what you are feeding Kacee?
ukenuba I know it is not spelled right, and hills sciene diet td for their teeth..

could his food be doing this to him.. oh my...

kalina82 03-20-2008 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 1863419)
ukenuba I know it is not spelled right, and hills sciene diet td for their teeth..

could his food be doing this to him.. oh my...
its possible. those values can have a connection to diet in some cases.

"Conditions that lead to malnutrition (such as celiac disease) or are caused by a lack of nutrients in the diet (such as scurvy) can cause low ALP levels."

" Increased BUN levels suggest impaired kidney function. This may be due to acute or chronic kidney disease, damage, or failure. It may also be due to a condition that results in decreased blood flow to the kidneys, such as congestive heart failure, shock, stress, recent heart attack, or severe burns, to conditions that cause obstruction of urine flow, or to dehydration. BUN concentrations may be elevated when there is excessive protein catabolism (breakdown), significantly increased protein in the diet, or gastrointestinal bleeding (because of the proteins present in the blood).'

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 1863425)
its possible. those values can have a connection to diet in some cases.

"Conditions that lead to malnutrition (such as celiac disease) or are caused by a lack of nutrients in the diet (such as scurvy) can cause low ALP levels."

" Increased BUN levels suggest impaired kidney function. This may be due to acute or chronic kidney disease, damage, or failure. It may also be due to a condition that results in decreased blood flow to the kidneys, such as congestive heart failure, shock, stress, recent heart attack, or severe burns, to conditions that cause obstruction of urine flow, or to dehydration. BUN concentrations may be elevated when there is excessive protein catabolism (breakdown), significantly increased protein in the diet, or gastrointestinal bleeding (because of the proteins present in the blood).'
so the food is probably to high in protein then.. any ideas what I can change him to... he has lost weight over months.. since I put him on the td.. but the vet wanted him to lose 1/2 a pounds as he was 4 pounds and for his frame he needed to be less as he has lp... so any food suggestions would be great.. problem is I am in florida in the winter and ontario in the summer.. so to get a food I can get in both places is really what I need to find..thanks so much for you help.. anne

kalina82 03-20-2008 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 1863441)
so the food is probably to high in protein then.. any ideas what I can change him to... he has lost weight over months.. since I put him on the td.. but the vet wanted him to lose 1/2 a pounds as he was 4 pounds and for his frame he needed to be less as he has lp... so any food suggestions would be great.. problem is I am in florida in the winter and ontario in the summer.. so to get a food I can get in both places is really what I need to find..thanks so much for you help.. anne
i don't think eukanuba has high protein levels and the T/D certainly doesn't. Check your bag of food or look it up online.

is he usually healthy otherwise? have you noticed anything wrong other then the lp?

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 1863479)
i don't think eukanuba has high protein levels and the T/D certainly doesn't. Check your bag of food or look it up online.

is he usually healthy otherwise? have you noticed anything wrong other then the lp?
No he has been healthy since day one.. no problems, he had his teeth cleaned before and I always did bloodwork first..so I was quite surprised today. he was neutered also.. he was 5 years old in December..

kalina82 03-20-2008 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 1863575)
No he has been healthy since day one.. no problems, he had his teeth cleaned before and I always did bloodwork first..so I was quite surprised today. he was neutered also.. he was 5 years old in December..
if you think the results are off you can always do a 12 hour fast and make an appt for first thing in the morning at the vets so its not like he's missing a meal. have them re-do the blood test and see if the results are similar or different.

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 1863599)
if you think the results are off you can always do a 12 hour fast and make an appt for first thing in the morning at the vets so its not like he's missing a meal. have them re-do the blood test and see if the results are similar or different.
The vet did mention I could redo them, I think I will too.. as she will only worry about the two.. one was only just barely showing red.

Patti 03-20-2008 05:48 PM
With Dixie her Bun was 490 and her creatine was extremely high as well and she had congenital kidney failure. Cali when she was youner had a BUN of 30but on retesting it went back within normal range. Hopefully since it is not a lot over normal on retest she will be fine.

mypreciouspups 03-20-2008 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patti (Post 1863853)
With Dixie her Bun was 490 and her creatine was extremely high as well and she had congenital kidney failure. Cali when she was youner had a BUN of 30but on retesting it went back within normal range. Hopefully since it is not a lot over normal on retest she will be fine.
Well that made me feel better.. when should I do a retest do you think.. I cannot lose him.. I lost a 5 year old accidently from falling off the bed and she puncture her left lung and was gone in 10 minutes, I had a 5 year old my vet at the time killed my pooh with his needles that he had had a reaction to the year before, and he gave him the same shot and that time it was fatal.. so kacee being 5 is a scary time for me anyway without his bloodwork being off...oh how stressful this is..thanks anne

myriamha 03-21-2008 11:27 AM
You need to retest the BUN and Creatinine, and if above normal ranges it might indicate kidney disease ,,,and it;s better if you go to a specialist .

Yorkieville200 03-21-2008 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 1863441)
so the food is probably to high in protein then.. any ideas what I can change him to... he has lost weight over months.. since I put him on the td.. but the vet wanted him to lose 1/2 a pounds as he was 4 pounds and for his frame he needed to be less as he has lp... so any food suggestions would be great.. problem is I am in florida in the winter and ontario in the summer.. so to get a food I can get in both places is really what I need to find..thanks so much for you help.. anne
Anne,

I am so sorry about Kacee, and I understand your fear. I changed my girls over to Evangers Canned awhile back, and they have improved so much! I have found that the canned food is less sticky than kibble and their teeth stay cleaner.

Right now, I feed 2/3 portion of Super Premium Cooked Chicken and 1/3 portion Super Premium Vegetarian Dinner. Here is the web-site; www.evangersdogfood.com

I think the quality of the protein is what makes the difference in how well they can assimilate it.

Sheila

glory 03-21-2008 12:26 PM
teeth cleaning and food
 
I have two yorkies and one is eleven years old and his two canines on the bottom are dead and when they fall out his jaw will break and the vet said I would have to put him to sleep..........I was sick to hear this and started feeding him soft food but a couple of weeks ago I was boarding two dogs who were home fed and hubby thought we should try that for our dogs and we made a batch and lo and behold my dogs love the food but the best thing yet is the plaque on the teeth is coming off and the little fellow who i thought would need teeth cleaning has no plaque on his teeth now and my other guy is slowing getting the plaque of his.........not sure why this is happening but keep in mind they are both healthy and have no health issues so not sure how it would work with dogs who are comprimised with health issues.....if you would like my recipe I could post it here for you all to see and try ..........
gloria

YorkieRose 03-21-2008 12:30 PM
kidneys
 
A bitch of mine was in total kidney failure one week ago ...vet held out little hope. Today she is normal..no clue why she went down and came back just as fast...she was vomiting and not eating, today she is running, playing and eating..test are normal...these dogs are a total mystery to me...and the vets.

Yorkieville200 03-21-2008 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glory (Post 1865481)
I have two yorkies and one is eleven years old and his two canines on the bottom are dead and when they fall out his jaw will break and the vet said I would have to put him to sleep..........I was sick to hear this and started feeding him soft food but a couple of weeks ago I was boarding two dogs who were home fed and hubby thought we should try that for our dogs and we made a batch and lo and behold my dogs love the food but the best thing yet is the plaque on the teeth is coming off and the little fellow who i thought would need teeth cleaning has no plaque on his teeth now and my other guy is slowing getting the plaque of his.........not sure why this is happening but keep in mind they are both healthy and have no health issues so not sure how it would work with dogs who are comprimised with health issues.....if you would like my recipe I could post it here for you all to see and try ..........
gloria
Gloria,

I would love that recipe if you wouldn't mind posting it.

Sheila

Patti 03-21-2008 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 1863995)
Well that made me feel better.. when should I do a retest do you think.. I cannot lose him.. I lost a 5 year old accidently from falling off the bed and she puncture her left lung and was gone in 10 minutes, I had a 5 year old my vet at the time killed my pooh with his needles that he had had a reaction to the year before, and he gave him the same shot and that time it was fatal.. so kacee being 5 is a scary time for me anyway without his bloodwork being off...oh how stressful this is..thanks anne
We waited 2 weeks and it was within normal.

mogli 03-21-2008 03:11 PM
1) forget about the dental cleaning for now
2) re-test and get to the bottom of the elevated levels

If they clear up in a week or two, no problem. But if this is some underlying issue you need to start managing ASAP!

Unfortunately, I have experience with kidney failure ... :(

Sending good vibes ...

mypreciouspups 03-21-2008 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogli (Post 1865833)
1) forget about the dental cleaning for now
2) re-test and get to the bottom of the elevated levels

If they clear up in a week or two, no problem. But if this is some underlying issue you need to start managing ASAP!

Unfortunately, I have experience with kidney failure ... :(

Sending good vibes ...
Ok thanks.. I am going to forget it for now.. I will have him retested again.. I will call the vet to find out when I can do this...another person said two weeks also..

Connie 03-21-2008 08:40 PM
I don't have any advice as I know nothing about those numbers, but just wanted to wish your little one the best and I hope it turns our normal the next time you have bloodwork done. Sending hugs...it's so scary to hear things aren't right.

mypreciouspups 03-21-2008 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie (Post 1866523)
I don't have any advice as I know nothing about those numbers, but just wanted to wish your little one the best and I hope it turns our normal the next time you have bloodwork done. Sending hugs...it's so scary to hear things aren't right.
Thanks so much Connie.. I appreciate this so much.. and from others.. it just stunned me as he is looking and acting great.. so retesting will be done.. and he will not get his teeth cleaned at this time..anne


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