Purchase of a bile acid (liver) tested puppy
 

If you found two puppies you liked just the same by two different breeders, but one was $100.00 more but liver function tested (pre and post eating bile tested) before leaving the breeders which would you chose?

just from all the babies here on yt having liver shunt, i would def pay the higher price for peace of mind

also, the owners seem to care enough to do the testing as well

Thank you for the comment Lisa. This is very important poll to me. I am wanting to implement pre and post bile testing in my program for all puppies leaving here. The test is about 80.00 per puppy so it can be expensive and adds up fast.
But due to the fact yorkies are 36 times more likely then most any other breed to get a shunt it is truly a worthwhile test.
But unless someone knows a lot about yorkies and researched the breed very well before buying one, they may have no idea how prevalent this disease can be in this breed and how this test can save alot of heartbreak, unneeded suffering of a puppy, not to mention expensive down the road.

i think it is a great idea. my only question is, can they have the test done before leaving your home? are they too young to have the test?

i would definately adopt a puppy who has been tested.

I would go for the higher priced one as well just b/c i am one of the mommy's whos babies has MVD and wasn't tested by the breeder.But I would really suggest all the breeders have their babies tested.

As far as I have read, yes, they can have the test before they leave the home. There's a breeder who is a member here...I haven't seen her in a long time, I'm not sure if she's still breeding, but her name is YorkieRini with stellaryorkies.com and she did bile acid testing on all her pups before selling them.

I feel like bild acid testing yorkies before they go to their homes is extremely important. I don't know how many times a yorkie has been misdiagnosed with something else simply because the owners or vets weren't educated enough on liver shunts. This is something that the late Terri Schumsky was pushing for...Educating the public on importance of bile acid testing.

Question...Once the test is negative for liver shunt, will it always be negative, or is this a test that should be done more then once? Can a healthy puppy acquire liver shunt later? Just curious. Please don't make it sound like I'm stupid...I really want to learn something here. Thanks.

Having Cali a MVD dog I would definatley opt for the test. It can save a lot of heartache and money. Before I got Pixie I said my next dog would have to be Bile Acid tested but she was 13 months with no health issues and from a very well know breeder so I got her anyway.

I would definitely pay more for a liver shunt tested dog. It's well worth it.

I would definately spend the extra $100

Your question is not stupid at all. It is suggested puppies be tested at 9 to 10 weeks of age at the earliest and even though the puppy is tested for an congential shunt it could be possible for them to get an acquired shunt later in life. These can be caused by stress, poor diet, another underlying health problem etc. But by testing the chances of your puppy having a shunt is greatly reduced.

I personally do not feel a Yorkie should be sold/bought without one. Its inexpensive and I get so tired of hearing "I just dont have the money" You should have money set aside for expenses. I know MAJOR things arise you did not expect but as a safe measure PLEASE have at least 500 $ set aside for testings, sickness, anything that may arise. My Diggy was 800.00 I then had to have bile acid test (breeder didnt want a thing to do with it) $150, 2 fecal exams $40.00 (he came with coccidia) meds for coccidia, blood test, heart worm test, shots, and heart worm preventative. He then was diagnosed hypoglycemic, so then we played the food game lol started on Nutro, then to Innova, then Innova evo, canned puppy food and home cooking. His food alone has cost me over 150$ (trial and error) he has to eat every 3-4 hours so keeping him interested has been a CHORE! Nutrical, Kayro, bullies, cow tails, leashes, harness, puppy shampoo, bed, toys.....I can go on forever.....So thinking you buy a dog for $800 and your done is wayyyyyy offfffffff. I dont mean to sound negative.....but if you really wanna give your baby the life they deserve....set aside FUNDS!!! :D

I agree, puppies/dogs can be and are expensive...That's why I have the "PUPPY FUND"" I put extra cash in this fund when I can...just in case I need it for whatever my boy may need. I may not always have a lot, but a little here a little there...and you'll have what you need, when you need it. Obviously if there was a major health issue, where we're talking thousands and thousands of dollars talk to your vet, more then likely they'll let you pay monthly payments. But yes, we do have to think ahead and be prepared.

So if a puppy is tested negative, how often should a dog be tested, or only if there are symptoms. Thanks for saying my questions are not stupid. I've had yorkies for 15 years, and I've learned more here on YT in the last 3 months then I ever thought I didn't know. Does that make any sense???

After having a yorkie with liver shunt and to watch him go through all the pain of surgery and then having to put him down after 4 short years...I have the bile acid test on all of mine...it might be more money, but trust me its worth it....:)

If a puppy's bile acid test results are within normal range, then the pup is probably free of a congenital shunt, but that doesn't mean that later on in life they can't have an aquired shunt. Just like you can't guarantee that a dog will never get cancer or something like that. The most accurate bile acid test is the one where they fast the dog for 12 hours (like overnight) take the pre meal and then the post meal...
The urine bile acid test has been known to not be as accurate as it does not give numbers.

I'm all for it as well!
I really want my Gemma tested but I don't want to go through it myself! LOL! I'm afraid to fast her and I don't want that on my head!
I am still looking into the recommended urine bile acid test though.
I would much rather pay more to know the breeder was already able to rule this out!

Thanks for all the info...I want to be prepared for Winston's vet visit.

All the test proves when given is that the pup at that point in time dose not have a liver problem but most shunt dogs develope it after a year old..So the big Guarantee means nothing for one yrs period of time of a guarantee. It's a line problem genetics as the lines with the heavy shunt problem back in the early 90's was the Rothby line.. Beautiful dogs but many died because of it. They had some of the most saut after dogs and used many in breeding to get that look and line bred and inbred to get it there fore doubling or tripling the chances of it developing in the off spring..Unverity of Davis did a huge artical in the Yorkshire Mag on it..

Attachment 123641The liver shunt test only tells you the pup at that point in time in it's life dose not have a liver problem.. Most shunt dogs develope it after one yr. Back in the early 90's Yorkshire Mag had a huge write up as to the dogs dying of Shunt's and the line it was showing up in large numbers was the Rothby line. Then when closely bred making the problem even worse till they figured out what was going on.. Shunt can happen in any dogs but with so many breeding the Rothby line into there dogs had some bad problems with longevity and with out surgery they died. Would I buy a pup with out the shunt test.. Yes.. as if that's the only Guarantee they have it's not worth the paper it's written on. A better guarantee is replacing a pup if a genetic falut causes early death proven by vet documentations.

Very helpful information, thanks!!!

I agree...
 

the 100 addition cost is nothing compared to what costs are involved if the puppy does have LS.

JMO

There has been a lot more research since the 90's. Rothby is far from the only line with shunts. The more they check pedigrees the wider the bloodlines are getting. The worry is that its in so many lines it will be very hard to stop.

The duct should be closed by the time a pup is 6 weeks old. Testing can be done at 10 weeks. Most acquired shunts are inside the liver, more of an MVD type and caused usually by other health issues.

I do advise the Urine Bile Acid tests because they are accurate and there are few or no false positives and no fasting. You should feed the pup 4-6 hours before getting the urine. Its 100% sensitive to liver function. Its a screening tool as is the blood bile acid so if it's positive further testing would be required. But its a sure sign not to buy the pup if its positive.

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

With the prevalence of liver shunts in yorkies, I would definately spend the extra money for a peace of mind that your yorkies does NOT have a liver shunt.

Most dogs with portosystemic shunts are diagnosed before one year of age but has been seen in dogs up to 9 yrs old.

Most (not all) of the shunts that are seen in yorkies are congenital...meaning that they were born with it, so it doesn't just develop after one yr of age all of a sudden. After a yr of age might be when you notice the symptoms, but dogs who have congenital shunts are born with it.

If anyone wants further information on this topic, you can go to the UT's website and read the information provided by Dr. Karen Tobias, a top vet that specializes in liver shunts/mvd or you can join the liver shunt/mvd group on yahoo groups. They have a very extensive file section with info from many of the top vets.