|
Quote:
|
Puppy Mills Puppy Luv, Thank you so much for taking the time to break my long point of view into paragraphs, that was so nice of you. I'm with Carol Jean, what can we do on this forum to make a difference, can we get a petition going, and demand that our congress men help solve this problem of the abuse of animals that goes on in puppy mills and kennels. Each State needs to get their regulations in place, as does each County. When applying for my Special Use Permit, the County did not even want to go there, you say Kennel to them, they think big problems, too complicated, to much work, they would not even separate me from a kennel, which I do not have a license for a kennel, you get a license for Breeding, which I have, or a license for Boarding, do you think I could make them call me a Breeder, and the Vet that was applying for a Boarding Lic. a Boarding Lic. NO, they insisted that we get a kennel lic. it was easier for them, and they do not want to do anything to make it more complicated. My dogs live in my home, have the run of the house, sleep in my bed, and have a large, large, large fenced yard, maybe about 3,000 sq. ft, and 1800 sq. ft of decking. They prefer you keep your dogs inside in cages!!!!!!!!!! I will not keep my dogs in cages!!!!!! I even got a special wavier from the State saying my dogs could all run together as they all got along well and if any problems arose, such a a bitch in heat, it was easy to separate them in the facilities I have for them. They would rather you have a seperate building for the dogs. With the dogs in my home, I can take better care of them, Yorkies do not want to be away from their owner, they are PETS, they share our household with us, we sleep with them, they are on our furniture, and I never let them out of my sight, with the exception of nite time when we all sleep, I have 2 by 4 cages in my bedroom so I can sleep with all of them. The County wants all dogs to be treated the same, same reg. for a Yorkie is there is for an Elk Hound. They want everything to be exactly the same, saying a dog is a dog. Well an Elk Hound can have as many as 44 puppies in two litters, where a Yorkie could have as many as 8 puppies in two litters, yet we have to have the same rules. I think the State has it all figured out, and their are different reg. for small or toy dogs than for the larger outside breeds like Huskies, And Elk Hounds. So in my opinion we would have to start with the State, than get the County's to go along with the State as they are the ones that will be doing the inspections, the County does not have that kind of man power. I think the State is very on top of the people who are licensed breeders, however in my situation the County and State do not work together, and they both have different ideas, like I can have 2 litters, a Boarding facility can not have more than two litters. So to get my kennel lic. from the county I had to go along with the same reg. as the Boarding facility, with the exception they can have 40 dogs and two litters, they are on 6 acres, and I can have 15 dogs and no more than 2 litters, and I am on 4 acres boarding BLM. How can you get rid of the puppy mills when you can not even get the County to give you the time of day. The State you can work with, it is all very clear and black and white, you try to get the County to go along with the State rules as they are the ones who will be regulating, and they have to have their say and do as they please, just to let you know where the power is. It's hard to get any power going in either direction when you can not get the County to work with the State, and the State is the one who will regulate you. I guess my question is where do you start, the State or the County, my feeling if you are going to petition you have to get the County to go along with the State. That is not going to be an easy thing to do, as every State and every County have different rules and regulations. In this situation I think all State and Counties could have the same rules and regulations to make it easier for everyone to understand, and there for abide by. Carol Jean, you seem to have a lot of very good energy, what can we all do to get this ball rolling and make a difference, and save the lives of some of these well deserved dogs, and put an end to brokers and puppy mills!!!! And make sure all the breeders are also doing their job to be State and County governed. God knows these precious animals deserve a break and a good better quality of life! Their are soooooooooooooo many readers that contribute to these forums that have the brains and energy to really make a difference if we will all come together and try to find a solution to these problems, I for one would really like to see something good come out of this forum, to put an end to puppy mills, brokers, and unethical breeders. To take a stand and move forward. What does everone else feel we can do to make a difference and turn this forum into getting every thing regulated to stop the Puppy mills, Brokers, and Bad Breeders that sell to Puppy Mills and Brokers? I just know we can make a difference and turn things around for the protection of all the little furbabies we love so much. |
QUOTE: Carol Jean, you seem to have a lot of very good energy, what can we all do to get this ball rolling and make a difference, and save the lives of some of these well deserved dogs, and put an end to brokers and puppy mills!!!! And make sure all the breeders are also doing their job to be State and County governed. -------------------------- Thank you, Donna Jean --- I wish so much that I had more time than I have...... I am serious about this. I am 66 years old and have three jobs - I always work more than 40 hours a work and more often I work more than 50 hours a week. I do have time to do some things - but I know for a fact that a lot of you here on YT have much more time (and energy) than I have. I think as a start - I'll get together a list of Congressmen (from each State) that we can all write to. The truth is that they need to get thousands and thousands of letters -- and, they need to get these letters over and over again.... not just a flurry of them - and then nothing after that. ------------- I don't know a lot about petitions - or what they can accomplish - but I think this should be looked into .... **** Unfortunately - still (after many posts of mine on this subject) I continue to see many of you loving to jump on a soap box and state your own personal opinions - but not many of you (like Donna Jean) jumping in and saying "What can we do?" I'll get a list of people we can write to -- but already I can think of a million other things that need to be done..... like I said earlier - trying to close puppymills in this country would be a huge job that would take a lot of people, a lot of effort, and a lot of work. It would be no easy task...right? Carol Jean |
We have signed petitions, we have written our representives - some even respond back. I have a letter sitting here from my congressman Jim Saxton from about two weeks ago. We had someone here that knew someone that worked for Oprah and tried to get her involved. People have written Ellen Degeneres. People have contacted newspapers, written to radio stations and the news. Admin even created another forum just for this Millbusters.com I'm sure there is more that I'm forgetting. We do more than jump on soap boxes and state opinions. Tell us what else we can do. This is a huge but very legal problem backed by millions of dollars. So much money and so few people that know or care enough to want to change it. I applaud you for wanting to do something, it is a lot easier said than done. |
It is a big problem we are talking about here and I think it is only one approach to solve it by not buying from a pet store. IMO if we are really serious about shutting down puppy mills we have to take other actions too 1. put pressure on the kennel clubs to not give out registration papers for puppies from puppy mill owners 2. put pressure on the legislative for a effective law against puppy mills 3. and another law to forbid selling dogs and cats in pet stores at all (like there is in other countries) :animal-pa |
Oooops... didn't see those post before me... sorry! I agree, it's quite a task but if we don't give up and try to organize it, eventually it will be a success! |
Puppy Mills Hi, I know all of you have so much positive energy, now to direct it were it will do the most good. Carol Jean is going to get a list of all our State officials. That will be great! I think it would also be important to get every States, Rules and Regulations on how many dogs they can have in the County, City requirements, so we would need to know All the Citys in each State, and All the County's in each state. We would have to get that information from the Dept of Agriculture, since all States are different it would be nice to see the difference and try to make everything the same so it is a very BLACK and WHITE issue easy to understand by all. Just like many of you have already said, make it illegal to sell puppies and kittens in Pet Stores, That is Black and White, that would take the wind out of Brokers and Puppy Mills!!!!!!!! I know a lot of these Puppy Mills and Brokers are all over the internet and are hard to identify, as they do not list all their dogs, pretend to show, and have someone doing a beautiful Web Site for them, that they hide behind. It would be nice to make everything universal, so if a Puppy Mill gets shut down in one State they can not move to another. This is so hard to know where to start I know when I was trying to get my Special Use Permit, their were some many hoops to jump through, a ton of red tape, and I just had to wade through it a baby step at a time, a year later and over 12,000.00 later iI got my special use permit. It wasn't what I wanted, and I am having to place some of my dogs, and only have 2 litters a year, but i think that can eventually change, the law before was a mim. of four dogs per house hold in the County. I you wanted more you would have to have 1 acre per dog. So if you had 20 dogs, you would have to have 20 acres. The same rule applied for Kennels, No one can afford that kind of property to have a Kennel to board and rescue dogs. We were able, with a lot of patience and time to change that rule that a Kennel could be on two acres, and house no more than 40 dogs,and could not have more than 2 litters a year. and they had to be regulated by the State and be State Licensed. So we know have one new rule in Garfield County that is Black and White. That was a big step, so I know if we can get organized we can get the ball rolling. My stand in this whole mess was to bring the closet breeders out of the closet, let them get legal and not be afraid they were going to be found out about or shut down, these are the breeders we want to buy our puppies from, they are small breeders, and raise their dogs as pets first in their homes, and than have a few litters a year. The Show Breeders are of course the model for what the small breeders should be producing, they are the ones that set the examples they are the leaders, and they are the ones that already know the rules and regulations, so if they could step forward, and let us know how to get started, it would be a win, win situation. Small breeders would be buying their dogs from show breeders, and hopefully get involved in showing as that is how you can really see the difference in the breed you are interested in, and that should be the goal we all have in mind when we are producing little live babies that should have a future of few problems, and as beautiful and healthy as we can breed. I truly wanted to make a difference in the quality of the breed, and since I have a few champions, and some very nice dogs, I notice other breeders are having to get a better quality of dog if they want to sell their puppies. I am 62 years old and had to wait till I retired to start this business, but I for one was so sick and tired of getting yorkies with a lot of things wrong with them, the expense of trying to get the proper medical treatment , and sometimes having to endear the heartbreak of losing them. I was committed to make a difference, and I know in our area I can now see that breeders are breeding much better quality of dogs, with lots of champions, and beautiful dogs to start out with. All it is is education, get the facts out there, and let these breeders who are with the mothers and their babies 24/7 for the 3 critical weeks it takes to raise a baby, and know that these breeders are loving all their dogs first and treating them like pets, who are truly out there to better the breed.. I have a friend that I got started in this business who I just love to pieces, she started out on the right foot by getting the best quality of dogs that she could find, raises her dogs in her home, and all of her dogs are drop dead beautiful, her puppies to die for. She will remain small so the dogs get a lot of attention and care, and are not just a money maker for her, they are her beloved pets first, and get the best of care she can provide for them. She is the kink of person you want to get your dogs from, and the kind of breeder that you have the upmost of respect for. These are the breeders we want to keep in business, and if anyone we can make a dent to abolish all Puppy Mills, and Brokers, and get the intergrity back in these breeds. I think this forum can! I think we would have to have volunteers come forward that would like to see an end to puppy mills step forward. Let us know which State they are from, and maybe get a committee formed with at least a dozen volunteers from that State, find out how many Counties are in that State, and get the rules and regulations for Breeders and boarding faculties in those Counties. I personally would like to see how different everything is, and the larger the difference, the harder it will be to make a crack in the Puppy Mill and Broker Business. However We have to start somewhere. This is soooooooooooo big, and it isn't going to happen overnite, but at least if we can pull together in this forum we can get some input and get started on this journey that will indeed put an end to the suffering and bad treatment of these wonderful creatures that are our BEST FRIENDS! Speaking of BEST FRIENDS IN UTAH, MAYBE THEY COULD GIVE US SOME POINTERS ON HOW TO GO ABOUT THIS AND GET STARTED. I know when I started my business I could not find anyone that said there was a concrete rule, I only found out after the fact, and then had to apply for my application to be reviewed as I was in violation of the County's rules. Not a good position to be in. It was a long and tough year for me, and because the County insisted on calling me a Kennel, no one wants to live next door to a kennel!!! A hobby breeder is a different thing. I was told no one is looking for hobby breeders, they are looking for dogs running at large, barking all night, harassing wild life, etc. etc. Puppy Mills, not me. I think their are a lot of breeders that are or were in the same boat i was in, you are State Licensed, your dogs are AKC so you think everything is o.k. For me to find out different turned out to an expensive and uphill battle, and a slow process that I was in constant fear that I would not get my Permit, and have to move as giving up all my dogs was not an option. I am sure that is the reason so many breeder are not State Licensed, and I would think more than half do not even know the regulations in their County, I know no one would give me a straight answer. Even the people who should have known did not know until it came up and I had to go before the board of county commissioners. So I know this is going to be a long hard uphill battle, but I truly think with everyone out there wanting the same thing we CAN make a difference. I think after we get the facts from each State and County within that State what the rules and reg. are. We can than go to our State Rep. and see how we can better inforce the rules that have be set up to abide by. I am personally overwhelmed at the enormity of the Puppy Mills and how to find them and personally shut them down! It also scares me, as I want to make sure all of my animals are protected, and no one will try to go after me to make my life a living hell because I am trying to put them out of business, I am sure they are very big and have a lot more money than I do and I worry about the safety of myself and my animals. but we have to start somewhere. I would love to hear how many people from how many States would like to get involved in this forum, so we can start to get organized . If there are not enough people, than I think the fight will be impossible, as one person can not do it alone. I know so many want to help, and have the same feelings, it would be so nice for whoever is interested to come forward and let us know their feelings and how they think they can help. |
Quote:
Right on!!! I agree 100% You can not have more than you can care for and provide quality time and attention to! And most important afford to keep in good health! |
Sorry but I'm taking this WAY off topic for a sec. Just an observation... Donna Jean, do you have more than one user account? It seems as though you answered, then turned around an complimented yourself on your previous post...page 2 posts #21 & 22. I'm not disagreeing with what you said...just kinda strange how you answered your own post. Post #21: Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Interesting post but still I would never buy from a pet store. You were one of the few lucky people that bought a dog from a pet store. Pet store are mostly the reason of the many puppy mills around. Sorry but I cannot believe that a responsible breeder would ever sell to a pet store. Just my thought. Quote:
|
Who stated that the quote "24 bitches" equal puppy mill??? I am sure some of the show people may have 24 bitches and they take good care of them. I do not consider them puppy mills. Quote:
|
Its not about stopping puppymills for me, i just like to see my dog's parents and know how the dog is going to end up. ive seen alot of people buy yorkies from petshops and the dog ends up being HUGE or worse, unhealthy. and we all know the guarentees are crap pretty much 99% of the time. and the "papers" are usually just picked at random from a big pile |
RE: Donna Jean's two posts..... I think she just posted twice --- Some posts go on forever - and I post again - Sometimes I post a 2nd answer - not remembering I had already posted. Sometimes I post again simply because I have more to say..... And - sometimes I'm sure people think I'm nuts because I have done any of the above.... So - Donna Jean - just keep posting. It's always good to hear from you! Carol Jean |
Quote:
|
I agree with shutting down puppy mills and jail time for the millers. As far as pet stores go, I live in a small town in central Minnesota, the only place that I can find my yorkie's food is the pet store in a town 20 miles away. I know the owners on the store, I know where they get their dogs and I have been to many of the breeder's homes. I know that in alot of places this is not the case. |
Quote:
Carol Jean, Thank you for being so nice, I feel like txshopper is trying to rake me over the coals, for a mistake in where I posted my response to Yorkie Dork. It does look like I responded to my self, I do talk to my self a lot, but I have yet to write letters or compliment myself on what I have written. I feel so stupid that I think I will just step back and let all go forward on their posts and just observe, I sure was not trying to upset any one, and that seems to be the case with Txshopper. This is a hot issue, and with all the responses it seems as though nothing is going to be done about Puppy Mills, everyone just wants to post an opinion, I did enjoy hearing about what everyone had to say, and Carol Jean I appreciate your understanding and kindness, also your willingness to get the ball rolling. You have a lot to contribute to this forum, keep up the good work!!!!! I loved the passion you displayed in all your posts. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Not at all where I am coming from or where I would ever go. Sorry for your suspicions, raking someone over the coals is just an expression of how I felt about making an honest mistake. Not to be dramatic, it is just an expression. No offense intended of any kind to anyone. However I do find your suspicions very offensive. |
Haven't Changed MY mind Quote:
|
Getting back on topic. I would buy a puppy from a pet store, IF I saw one that I wanted , I sure would. I have read over and over dont buy from pet stores they are all sick they all come from puppy mills......Not true. I have family that have bought pets from pets stores and those pets have been very healthy . Yes Im sure there are some that are sick as with some people buying off of breeders those puppys could also be sick. I know of pets stores that have bought puppys from breeders and resold them. So no not all comes from mills.No not all are sick..... So I dont know why people keep telling everyone that. If People would really try and shut down these puppy mills and work together someday some thing might be done.. But we cant even seem to stay on topic. Theres always someone worry about what one of the other members are doing. |
Well , I have confession to make,I have kept quite long enough. I bought Rosie from a pet store. Even after I heard all the stories. We will never shut them down by refusing to buy a pet from a petstore and not all dogs from PS are from puppy mills. Rosie is this sweetest most loving dog I have ever owned. No big issues, compared to Rocco who came from a local breeder. The issue I have is with Rocco's aggression with her.I would never advise anyone not to buy from a pet store. All the puppies I seen at animal kingdom in Grover Beach Ca. where I got Rosie from looked better than what I have personally seen at breeders homes, and in pictures I have seen on the net and some actually here on YT. I have been on other forums who will beat you down verbally if you admit you have a petstore dog. I have seen people search for the best breeder only to end up with a sick dog with genitic defects. I haven't had any regrets whatsoever about buying her form a petstore.The only gripe I have is what they ask for them. |
I think when people say don't buy from a pet store and reference sick puppies most likely they mean that pet stores keep puppy mills in business and puppy mills are infamous for having sick dogs on the premises. Many of those sick dogs are bred or used as studs and many of the sick puppies never make it to the store because they die enroute or before they ever leave the mill. Getting a puppy that may or may not be sick is just one of many reasons not to buy from a pet store. I'm sure that a lot of us know or have known someone who bought a dog from a pet store and everything seemed to turn out fine, but that doesn't take into account the poor puppy's parents, or grand parents. I'll quote Maya Angelou "you do what you know and when you know better you do better." |
I'll quote Maya Angelou "you do what you know and when you know better you do better." __________________ I don't think I could have done better. |
I tried to read all the posts - but some are very long - but great input guys - and I wanted to say this. A DEAR Friend has a pet store puppy - sure he came from a 'so called' breeder - he could be from a mill because what ETHICAL breeder would ever sell to a pet store ?? There is really no way of knowing. He won't see his 3rd birthday.:(:( :( :( I really hate seeing people say "sure I'll buy that pet shop puppy" because we aren't thinking of the MOMS back at the mill being bred. IF SALES DROPPED AT PET STORES - maybe they'd STOP selling puppies. Better yet - they need to BAN the sale of dogs in Pet Stores and stick to selling supplies. At least with an ethical and CARING breeder - you have a chance of seeing the parents and knowing the dogs lineage AND health issues if the breeder is up front with you. but if you all like paying 4-6 times the actual cost of dogs - go for it - cause that's all the PET STORES AND BROKERS do - :thumbdown :thumbdown they buy low - sell high and don't give one hoot about the puppies - it's all about the CASH. |
and ps....I do agree ALL dogs deserve way better than they get in this country. We treat them as a commodity and it's so WRONG. Every pet store puppy DOES deserve love but if the mass breeding was quelched - there wouldn't be such an overpopulation and explosion on the sale of dogs - everyone seems to think they're a money making venture now and THAT needs to stop. There should be stricter laws and much better inspections and limits on the Mills and USDA licenced facilities - unfortunately - everyone is profitting from the thousands of puppies sold this way - including the AKC.:thumbdown |
Let's talk the $$$$$$ too! Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:43 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use