Limited Registration?
 

When I browse around looking for puppies(just looking) I see a lot of people only offering LR. Then I see a lot of unreasonable request in the contracts. What are your thoughts on this? I mean if you pay the price for the puppy shouldn't it be up to you as to whether or not you want to get the pup fixed? When I bought Diesel I never agreed to a LR. I also never agreed to have him fixed and he isn't. So far he is doing just fine and so I figure why mess with it. My thing is how can some of these breeders even enforce certain request? This is just a curiosity question really and I would love to hear some opinions.


Michelle

An experienced breeder is the best judge of whether a pup they produced will or will not be suitable for breeding. Also, a breeder is ultimately responsible for the dogs they've produced, they are on the planet because of their actions....so any dogs THOSE dogs produce are their responsibility also...SO, a reputable breeder will not surrender that responsibility lightly to anyone just wanting a pet.

I always wandered the same thing about the limited registrations. Your explanation makes alot of sense. :thumbup: Actually it makes more sense than giving just anybody the right to become a "Breeder"! I have full registration with Beauty, but I am getting her spayed as soon as the vet says it's ok because breeding is a lot of responsibility. Also it takes a SPECIAL kind of person to be a breeder and I know that I am not that SPECIAL when it comes to things that are a matter of life and death (as an occupation) that's why I changed my major from nursing to DMS (Diagnostic Medical Sonography)because it takes the same kind of SPECIAL person to be a nurse if that makes sense :confused:

makes sense to me...I would be a terrible Diagnostic Sonographer

I think there are many reasons why breeders wish to limit registration. Many are now even having the sterilization procedures done at a young age before they leave their homes so the pup doesn't go on to produce APRI, etc. or unregistered puppies.

I think it is ok for a breeder for whatever reason to put anything they want to in a contract because you have the right to accept it or decline it.

registration
 

While it is nice to think care of the animal is the reason lets get real;
the breeder does not want you to breed their line. By keeping market small it keeps prices up. The problem is people that want to breed will buy from someone else and breed anyway, so it does not solve anything you cant make an person who thinks he can make money breeding animals change his mind because the breeder said they should not. I have also seen show kennels that let there breeder animals go to hell this is a fact. I have a yorkie a maltese a chiuhahua and a sharpei all females no limited regs. and I spayed them because I have enough sense to know that if you do it right you dont make money, its stressfull ,you have to live with a lot of mess. But we live in AMERICA you can choose not to purchase from them which i do, but these breeders usually have beautiful animals and it cost a lot to produce these type of dogs.

I am not a breeder yet, I will start in about a year or two, after alot more of research and learning. But when I do all of my pups will all have limited registration unless I say otherwise. The reason why I want to have limited registration is because there are sooo many puppy mills out here, they will buy a puppy and use it as their puppy mill dog. That and there are sooo many irresponsible "breeders" and "accidents." Although I am curious how to do this. Many many people will buy a puppy with limited registration even if the breeder refuses to give them papers until proof that the pup was neutered/spayed and they will still breed the pup regardless of this and will register the dog with another breed registry.

So how could you do this??
I thought maybe you could offer them a deal where if they spay the pup by a certain time they will be refunded the cost of the spay/neuter. But I am not even sure this would work. So other than neutering and spaying the pups before they go to their new owners, how can you truly ensure that the new owner will abide by the rules??

i have also wondered the samething....i however think it is a good thing because of so many puppymills and if someone is only wanting a pet and is being truthful to the breeder it shouldnt matter anyway....i havent even sent Bo's papers in and i doubt i will because he will be fixed next month so whats the need really for papers....and besides it is healthier for them to be fixed from what i hear is that true

I never let a puppy go with limited registration , they are neutered or spayed before leaving my home .

I remember reading on another post at Yorkie Talk (ah, I have no idea of its exact location now) that you can make the person getting the puppy leave you a deposit, and you give them back their money when they produce the proof of spay/neuter.

What about when they say you can't do this and you can't do that with the pup until you ask me first. To me that is pushing it a bit. I can understand unlimited registration to a degree. Like GypsyQueen said the breeders really don't want their line being bred. When I went looking for Diesel I ran into a lot who only offered LR and asked for a lot of money. Of course I went looking elsewhere. I think that if I am buying a dog and paying that kind of money for it then I should have the right to choose to get them fixed. Anyway I have no problem with breeders asking a buyer to do this and that and oh don't do this and don't do that till you ask me first. I simply find another breeder. Diesel isn't fixed and doesn't have any kids running around LOL. But he is spoiled rotten and well taken care of.

Thanks for the info.

Michelle

Lr
 

A breeder who spay/neuters will never have to wonder if their pups are in a puppymill being bred until they are useless.
We may place our pups with the nicest of people, but circumstances change...and my Yorkie could wind up in a bad breeding situation..

Never say that will NOT happen to your dog..you could be hit by a car tomorrow and relatives do not always find the best home for your pet...believe me, I had to rescue many beloved pet from a volume breeder. Good thing the first owner was dead in their grave and could not see what happened..it would have killed them..sorry!

Limited regs mean nothing...the owner can breed and use CKC..only spay/neuter works.

I don't think I said that it would NOT happen to me. I don't think I mentioned that at all. Guess this isn't the place for a good discussion without things getting heated and the I am right you are wrong feelings coming out. Just forget I asked.

let's get real? I can't speak for others, but I would be more than pleased to see more reputable breeders doing this WELL and would be happy to get someone started if they were interested in doing lots of homework. There are few people that I am comfortable referring anyone to and there are always more people wanting pups than pups I can find. The small hobby breeder has little to no effect on keeping the market small to keep prices up...and that has nothing whatsoever to do with limiting registration. You are correct in assuming that it is stressful and I have yet to make money...that's what makes it a hobby, not a business.
To address the other poster....the best way to 'control' what happens to the pups when they leave your care is to carefully screen your buyers and do a lot of communicating before and after, so you get to know them for real. There will be some that lie about intentions, but will usually trip themselves up along the way. This is not first come, first serve and your obligation is to the pups welfare above all else.

all kennels and mills should be registered ,they should be checked out every six months any one not passing inspection should be shut down any pet shop or person buying from them should be shutdown or heavily fined. I have heard of people buying limeted reg. and turn around and use another dogs papers to reg. there dog and as for getting to know someone the people that do this are very good at lying they dont get caught by a conversation with you theve had a lot of practice in deciet in a good world you can take person at his word in the real world watch your back where money is concerned...............PS please dont take offense be glad that you are not that manipulitive

Ok I have another question. Is there a way where you can make a legal binding contract that states that you have until a certain date to neuter/spay the puppy or else the breeder has the right to take back the puppy?? I would hate to neuter/spay a pup before it left to go to his/her forever home, they are just too young and too little. My vets don't even like to do it with this breed until they are 6 months old. I also agree that while you screen you potential owners, there are some that are very very good manipulators. They have done it a hundered times and know what to do and what to say and how not to slip up, I have seen these people and they are pros at what they do. I just would not feel comfortable letting a puppy go to someone I thought I could trust who said they would not breed the pup, anything can happen and change and I could not live with myself if a puppy ended up in a puppy mill or other horrible situation. So would the legally binding contract be another possibility other than spaying/neutering them before the puppies leave to go to their new homes?

I have been doing a lot of research on this subject and it does seem to be safe, as long as the vet is experienced in pediatric sterilizations. At what age do you perform the procedure? and at what weight? Have you had any fatalities? Any female incontinence? Have you noticed your pups getting taller that were pediatric spayed?

You have "hit the nail on the head" as my parents used to say.

thank you sugars mom
 

By all means I dont wish to offend breeders or buyers because there are alot of wonderful people on both ends but limited regs. will only make a small dent it wont cure this problem we need goverment help and monitoring on all breeds

lines
 

I do not care if people breed from my lines...infact I have no problem placing a breed potential with a reputable person with a good stud..but if I place it as a pet, I want it to be a pet..it may be a great dog for breeding, but it is my choice if it is bred. All of this is discussed before hand and agreed upon. I, in turn abided by these rules when inquring about a puppy...I was/am up front and tell the person I breed..and they have the choice to place the pup with me or not.

I hope my post did not offend you..it was the results of so many miserable situations..you get to a point where you can stop it by S/N.

That being said ...doesn't the value of a dog who is fixed go down somewhat? My thing is that if I am going to pay a ton for a puppy then I would like to have the choice to have him or her fixed. Now if it is in a contract that they must be fixed then shouldn't the price be somewhat lower?

Michelle

prices
 

I see what you are saying...since you want the choice to S/N, then you would deal with a breeder who gives that option. It would be pointless to continue to inquire about a pup from a breeder who reguires S/N.

I do not find the price any different, infact to take it one step further, people are willing to pay the same for a pet puppy with or without papers..and more for a pet that is already altered if it is a year or less. Most people say they only want a pet and papers are not something they are interested in..so they tell me to keep them..why give AKC money for a pet? I return the papers to AKC with a letter saying the new owner did not want to register the pup.

I had Emme and Kate to the vets for rabies a few weeks ago..a woman asked to buy one or both..she offered me $1500 each..I moved to another seat when she upped it to $2000 each, she was pushy and wanted to take Emee out of my arms..I peferred not to sell these girls...she said all breeders have a price. I told her I would be happy to talk about a girl pup I have coming in Sept..no papers and a spay agreement with our vet..she was okay with it...if she wasn't, then I would wait for the next person who is okay with it..there is no rush!

My puppies are spayed or neutered at six months old .

Oh, so you keep your puppies for a while before they go to new homes. Do they adapt well at that age?

My Bichon had a limited registration and I was asked to get him neutered.
I was told that he was "Pet Quality" and needed to be neutered before I purchased him. He has a cute little "corkscrew tail" --- a serous fault in a Bichon, and for this reason shouldn't be bred and certainly can't be shown -- but he is absolutely perfect in every other respect. This same lady also had show quality pups that could be bred - but they were quite a bit more expensive -- and I was looking for a pet.


My Yorkie has an unlimited registration. He will soon be neutered, and I decided not to waste my money registering him. He is a couple pounds above standard and shouldn't be bred and can't be shown. Otherwise, he is absolutely perfect in every way and is a darling pet. We didn't know what he would weigh full grown (his littermates are about 6 pounds).

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I would think that if a reputable breeder has a pup that has a known fault that precludes it from being shown and should keep it from being bred, she would be irresponsible if she didn't give it a limited registration.

This is what I thought limited registrations were all about..

And she should hope and require that this pup be neutered or spayed.

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Carol Jean

I really don't believe in limited registration . The only was that a breeder can be sure that a puppy will not be bred is to have them spayed or neutered early . Several peoples buy pups as pets and later decided to have puppies from them,
even if they promised or signed contracts .

I never heard a complaint from the new parents of my puppies . They are very proud to have puppies that are pee pad trained , know the basic commands .
A puppy will adapt easily if he or she is comfortable in a new home .