Nevermind my post, I thought this was the original poster that I originally quoted

Well said!!! {CLAP CLAP}

For the airlines charging so much to fly a pet, I wonder if it's for insurance reasons or anything. I don't know for sure, but I wonder if they do have a valid reason as to why they charge so much.

I worked in the travel business for 12 years and it has nothing to do with insurance. In fact they used to fly the small pets for free and children under 2 for free. It has everything to do with the airlines stuggling to survive and trying to find ways to make money. They can get away with charging so they do.

NASTKY - please don't ever be embarassed to be informative and share your very personal history. I applaud your bravery on this post as well as all the hard work you have done in your daily life to get where you are. I have a cousin who is severely bi-polar, schizophrenic, with OCD and anxiety disorder. She was diagnosed at 13 (is now 28) and cannot live on her own. Having spent a great deal of time helping to care for her, I can only imagine what you go through.

I didn't know there was even legislature for emotional support animals, although I think this is dramatically needed.

For everyone else - if you have gone through the process to have your babies labeled as "therapy dogs", please make sure you are helping others, not just yourself. Small dog owners are already labeled as crazy dog people. Let's not make that stereotype a reality. I love my baby and would like to take her as many places with me as I can, but I will do it legitimately.

One airline that does not allow pets on board, also does not charge for credible service animals... Unfortunately, if passengers complain about the "animal" on the flight and demand compensation...although it might seem small to the individuals demanding it, reimbursing 20 or even 100 passengers for their ticket price adds up...so I can understand how that happens. And again, most of the time it is caused by animals who are "claimed" to be service animals who are not adequately trained to behave during a flight.
I cannot imagine being the one who must question and get the credible verbal assurance or the documentation for an animal in any of these mentioned situations...if you see both sides... (Animal lovers...and not), it is not a good situation. With the new laws and lack of required documentation, businesses are only comfortable refusing the obvious for fear of lawsuits of discrimination of ADA....and it will not be solved today, but it would be nice if those who needed it did not have to be quizzed so thoroughly, especially for those needing emotional assistance animals. There animal can truly give them a path to freedom...yet they are mocked by those who pretend or lie, or any who have been lied to.

I love dogs. I would not be sad if everywhere I went, people could bring their dogs....but only if the dogs were clean and behaved themselves.

Not everyone is like us...not everyone loves dogs the way we do. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most people do not love animals the way we all do. A lot of folks don't treat their animals like they are little fur babies and keep them clean and train them to behave around people. That is why there are laws that restrict people from bringing their animals into public places like...places where we eat or places where we buy food for our families. It is important to realize that if dogs are allowed to go everywhere with us, the lady with the Yorkie AND the fella’ with the German Sheppard are both going to bring their dogs to your favorite cafe. You will mind that, I promise you will.

You know that smell in Pet Smart? Yuck. Would you eat in Pet Smart...I hope not. Remember the thread where everyone was laughing and talking about how their yorkies poo on the floor every time they go in there?? THAT is why dogs aren't allowed everywhere. It’s okay if your dog has a boo boo in Pet Smart…it’s not ok when you’re trying to get some grocery shopping done and someone puts their dog on the ground and you step in that dogs….ooopsie.

It has nothing to do with political correctness...if you think it's bull that people with anxiety or other emotional issues can have special rules, say so! People who really need to have documentation for an Emotional Support Animal are not doing so to ensure that no matter where they go they can bring their fur baby…it’s so they are allowed to have there dog with them in an apartment or at there therapists…stuff like that. Some people would really be “up a creek” without their dogs, or cat or gerbil. It’s a real medical problem. It really, really is a great help to a very many people that they have their dog.

If you cannot see or hear…you should be able to have your service dog with you everywhere you go. It just doesn’t make sense to suggest otherwise.

By the way, thanks to everyone who has said nice words to me, I appreciate that very much.

you make a very good point about petsmart. i personally think the dog needs to be more than a therapy dog to go into a restaurant, JMHO

This thread has been interesting. Some comments I agree and some are so hard for me to read.

I think many stereotype people so quickly. I wouldn't think that original poster was taking advantage from the system right after I read her first post. I mean I could say the exact same thing, and do you know what I am going through? That's right, you don't!! So then how can you say who is taking advantage of the system. The girl in Manchester (sorry I am lazy to look it up the name .. :D) shared very personal experiences. It is really great that people can speak out of her own experiences. However not everyone can do that. I might say the same, but I might be going through really tough situations that I might not say, and I just say it like "I just wanted to take my dog with me to everywhere..." So don't assume if you don't know the person well enough. It really irritates me!!!

I always have considered to have my dog as a service dog, but I don't think I will do that. Only reason is because I don't like to be labeled or being called disable. Then.. what does disability really mean? How can people comare whose situation worse than others? WE all have struggles... and why do we have to have names of disorders to get service dogs. Who can tell you that you don't deserve the service dog? If you don't go to counseling, work full time, and live okay everyday then.. the person doesn't deserve one? even she might have anxiety attacks but have egos not to be labeled?

Sorry.. I am just mumbling.. maybe I am not making sense.. but this is emotional topic as I work with battered women and families that go through struggles in daily lives.

No, you are making sense. I know what you mean. We don't know what anyone else has been through. I think the original person was trying to be nice and share info, and sometimes people get jumped on. :rolleyes: :p

Good !! Someone understands me!! I was getting chocked reading in the beginning of this threads! :) We also should be careful talking with others.. specially to new members! :) GOod thing we didn't scare the originally poster away.. It was very nice that she shared.

We have an outdoor cafe that allows dogs - but still the owners have the right to ask dogs to leave if they are causing any problems.

They tell me that it is the larger dogs that are the best behaved and almost never cause any problems. They just come in with their owners and lie beside them the whole time.

But - often the little ones snarl, growl, and bark (at the other people and the dogs there). Plus they are much more active and often won't lie quietly for an hour or so.

And ---because of "little dogs" --- they have put up a sign - "Please don't let your dogs sit on your lap and share your food!!!"

They did ask a pekinese and a yorkie to leave - both owners were irate. One threw money on the table - the other refused to pay the bill. When the pekinese left - the customers applauded...

And - OF COURSE - not all little dogs cause problems. Most are well behaved. I think mine would be. He's 10 months old, definitely not a barker, very friendly, and extremely laid back. I'm sure he'd be good.

I think there are more and more places all the time where we can take our dogs. But - we need to do our homework - and go out into public with little dogs that are well behaved. (A lot of people don't do this....) I think people who want their dogs with them most of the time - should search these places out and enjoy going to them.

Carol Jean

lol...it kind of looks like it .....but there are a few missing posts that Admin must have removed - but the original poster didn't get jumped on. she started an interesting thread and I think it had some good information on it ....but not everyone found it interesting I guess...:)

Some of the issues we are talking about have to do with laws and each state has their own laws on what you can and can not do with Therapy Dogs and ESA Dogs. This article is very informative on describing the 3 different types of catagories. Hope this helps.

http://www.petsandpeople.org/difference.htm

Service Dog, Therapy Dog:
What's the Difference?
We believe that a large part of the problem with access comes from confusion of terminology.

Therapy Dogs
Briefly, therapy animals work with a health-care professional as part of a treatment plan. Dogs that do visitation are also commonly called "therapy dogs". Neither of these usually has access to public places.

This can be confusing, because sometimes people call dogs "service dogs", claiming that they are entitled to that label because they provide a "service" for people. You can call a dog whatever you like, but the fact is that no federal law (and very few state laws) allow access with that type of "service" dog.

Service Dogs
Dogs that assist people with disabilities are termed "Assistance Dogs" or "Service Dogs". Those dogs actually need to do something to help with the disability. In return, they are allowed anywhere you could take another medical device, such as a wheelchair. The dogs may or may not do actual physical work for their handlers; for example, some deaf people use very small dogs who can alert them to sounds.

A person who has a disability and uses a dog to help compensate for abilities lost as a result, is guaranteed the right to be accompanied by that dog in any place where the public is usually invited. This right is guaranteed by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), which is a (US) federal law. Some (US) states also have laws concerning access with a Service Dog. The state laws may include restrictions as far as equipment that must be used, certification, trainers, and so on. The rule is that where the federal law allows you more rights, it prevails.

Please be aware that the ADA does not mention service dogs in training. Many state laws do. In that case, the state law is the ONLY one that applies; however, once your dog is no longer "in Training", you are protected by the federal statute mentioned previously.
(a page with links to US state & federal laws, as well as links for Canada, Mexico, and Native American laws, can be found at http://www.lawsource.com/also/)

Emotional Support Animals
Dogs that provide companionship, relief from loneliness & depression, and similar support can be allowed in housing (even "No Pet" housing) without the requirement of a pet deposit. Those dogs are called "Emotional Support Animals", but they don't have access to public places, either.

More information on Emotional Support Animals is available from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law and the Disabilities Rights Center.
Pets and People supports owner-trained service dogs, even those used for mental health disabilities like depression. Under the ADA, proof of disability and/or certification of the dog as a Service Dog need not be shown. Many people who live with a disability who choose to use a Service Dog (PWDWSD) have no or very few problems with access. Pets and People makes the Department of Justice's "Questions About Service Dogs in Places of Business" available for download in brochure form, which can help with access issues.

Chances are that if you don't have an obvious disability and/or you are using a very small dog, someone will attempt to deny you access or ask for proof (either of your disability or of your dog's status). Best to be prepared for that situation, either by having the so-called "proof" (a doctor or therapist's prescription, a Service Dog card), or by being willing to assert your legal rights and deal with the immediate consequences (yes, you may be right, but you may still be asked to leave). As an organization, Pets and People does not advocate one approach or the other. As with so many other things relating to living with an owner-trained service dog, the "best" approach is up to the person who must confront the situation.

Pets and People does not "register" or certify therapy dogs for visitation. A group that does, and is quite well known, is Therapy Dogs International (http://www.tdi-dog.org/). If you are looking for information on volunteering with your pet to visit nursing homes, hospitals, and similar activities, please see the book WANTED: Animal Volunteers by Dr. Mary Burch. If you are a health care professional who wants to incorporate animals into your practice or treatment protocols, please contact our founder, Dr. Patricia Gonser, through our contact page.





P&P Site Contents



copyright © 1997-2005 by Pets and People: Companions in Therapy and Service ("Pets and People"),
which is not responsible for any actions taken by the companies and sites whose links appear on this page.
Any trademark, service mark or copyright belonging to any company or individual listed
on this page is hereby acknowledged and no abridgement of rights is itended.
Other graphic resources used are listed HERE
Privacy Policy



This page last updated Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.

I want to apologize to anyone who felt I was too strong with my thougts and language in the beginning of this thread. I did not mean to jump on anyone at all, I was really frustrated about this topic for reasons seperate from this board and I might have reacted to strongly.

If anyone felt jumped on, please, accept my apology. I did not mean to be rude or disrespectful to anyone and honestly enjoyed this thread. I felt like people really talked about things and that it was productive.

Again, I am very sorry if I've offended anyone. Especially the first poster to this thread...I know you weren't advocating abusing the system, I know you were just trying to share information. I'm sorry if I was too rough!

Thank you,

Natalie :animal36

Natalie :) :) :)

I think it is beautiful thing to share your thoughts and experences. I admire you for your courage and sharing your voice. It is very important. I appreciate your posts.. So what I said wasn't meant to you! I really feel empowered by hearing your voice :) Thanks again.

I hope you can get your pup soon! :) You live close by... we should meet up some time :)

[QUOTE=Natsky]No more rescues would be nice...sadly, I think you guys are right, we're a long way off.

I think before our culture gets to a point where we can value animal life, we're going to have to learn to value ourselves and each other. People can't even treat other humans with respect, how can we imagine people would treat animals with respect. We treat animals like they are things...and we all know how people treat "things".

When I think about how some people treat animals...it hust rips me apart. Can you imagine, just being neglected and abused and disposed of?? It's a shame and it's criminal and I don't think I'm being dramatic when I say that stronger charges should be brought against people who mistreat animals.




Hugs to you .... Very enlightening commentary you made regarding emotional service dogs. The world would be far more accepting if other less legitimately needful people would not take advantage of the "loopholes". I wish all the best to you in finding Peace in your life.


Francie

That is not True. You can take a therapy dog anywhere a service dog can go. The dog has to be in it's Vest and WELL behaved. Just as a Service dog has to be well behaved and not a threat to anybody.Therapy dogs Do PROVIDE a SERVICE ! Some people need them just to be able to cope in the out side world. There is a wide variety of therapy these dogs do. I have been training mine for years. They CAN go in to a restruarnt, grocery store Dr's. Office, on a plane, Library. Post office ETC ETC ETC.. THEY DO PROVIDE A SERVICE. IT"S CALLED MENTAL/PSCHYACTRIC HEALTH ! A therapy dog is a working dog. IT may not pick up your pencil or your socks. BUT IT DOES work.

That is not True. You can take a therapy dog anywhere a service dog can go. The dog has to be in it's Vest and WELL behaved. Just as a Service dog has to be well behaved and not a threat to anybody.Therapy dogs Do PROVIDE a SERVICE ! Some people need them just to be able to cope in the out side world. There is a wide variety of therapy these dogs do. I have been training mine for years. They CAN go in to a restruarnt, grocery store Dr's. Office, on a plane, Library. Post office ETC ETC ETC.. THEY DO PROVIDE A SERVICE. IT"S CALLED MENTAL/PSCHYACTRIC HEALTH ! A therapy dog is a working dog. IT may not pick up your pencil or your socks. BUT IT DOES work.

I have a biewer yorkie that is a certified hearing service dog and he is working on his hours to be a certified therapy dog. I also have a Havanese that is both a certified hearing service dog and a certified therapy dog.

To be a service dog, hearing assisted, medication, (seizure, diabetic, mobility,etc.) took approximately 200 hours of training with a licensed service dog trainer. Many small dogs can be trained to make beds, fetch keys, determine oncoming seizures. They don't work as mobility dogs.

Therapy dogs require 10-20 hours of actual supervised "work" at the senior center or reading program or children's hospital, after the dog has passed a temperment type of test by licensed therapy dog trainer. The dog can earn his hours but cannot wear the vest with "therapy" until the dog is 1 year old.

Therapy dogs do not go into restaurants or grocery stores. Service Dogs can go anywhere when they are "working".

I know of people who have dogs for emotional support and I think those therapists and doctors that recognize how healing our animals can be for many of their patients, should be commended.

This is true -- Service dogs are allowed to be with the people they are caring for and helping and go anywhere with them.

If your dog is a therapy dog, there is no reason for you to have it with you in restaurants and other public places. It is not working in these places (service dogs are and help the people get to and from these places) ..... a therapy dog is just following like any other pet would do - including the ones that aren't allowed would so.

I know though that if you took a Therapy Dog into a restuarant or other public place, and it had it's vest on and you had a card saying it is a certified therapy dog - that most people would let you stay --- and the main reason for this is that they don't know the difference between a therapy dog and a service dog.

***** If you medically need (with a doctor's order) to have your dog with you for emotionally support --- it should be considered a "service dog" and you should have the right to have it with you wherever you go. And, of course, this doesn't mean that you have to go into detail with anyone about why you need this dog with you.

**** I called my sister about her therapy Bichon. She said that they were told during certification that certification did not mean they could take these dogs into public places where dogs are not allowed. They can take them only where they are invited --- nursing homes, schools, hospitals, etc. She can't understand how any of you could have really gotten therapy pet certification and could have been led to believe that you can go anywhere with your pet because of it. She said it was loud and clear in her classes that you should not do this. Being a therapy dog is a privilege and an honor - not a license to go wherever you want. And she agreed with me that many people don't know the difference between service pets and therapy pets and would let either stay. But, this, she said, is the part that people are taking advantage of.

Carol Jean

Very well said,and i agree people dont know the difference between service and therapy dogs

Ya know, to me anyone taking advantage of disabled people in any way , form or fashion has a problem and maybe they are the ones that need these therapy dogs. Rather than playing like they have to have one, its like parking in a handicap place because you dont want to walk. I'm sure most handicapped people wish they were able to walk from the other side of the parking lot to the store rather than be disabled, I know I rather be able to walk on my on , be it a heart, lung, leg, foot or any part of my body. well, they have hefty fines for parking in handicap parking places so maybe if they had a hefty fine for people caught claiming their puppy is a service or therapy dog that isnt, it would stop some of this going on just to get a DOG of all things into a store or some place for no reason other than to show it off. Its cheating, people. Get a grip. It hurts the people who really have to have this type of dog. If enough people do this then some of them that need these dogs might get ran out of stores they really NEED to be in. I could never stoop to the level of pretending to be handicapped just so a Dog could go some place. not that handicapped people are low but to pretend to be handicapped is about as low as you can get. Too many people today are self centered and think of nobody but themselves and what THEY want even if it means breaking rules. Really teaching the younger people good stuff like , hey.... its ok.. do what ya want. rules are just made to be broken. If you really think thats a good thing, then you need a therapy dog.

Kizzy's Mom --- I just couldn't agree with you more. Saying your dog is a Service Dog or a Therapy Dog - or having your dog become a Therapy Dog so that you can take it everyplace with you is about as low as a person can get.

Service Dogs and Therapy Dogs are such wonderful animals - doing so much for people - to abuse their status for our own self-centered, selfish needs is beyond comprehenson to me.

Yes - I'd love to take my dog a lot of places. But I don't even begin to consider it - if dogs aren't allows. I consider this a rule that responsible dog owners and responsible people should just follow - without trying to find loop holes or resorting to dishonest means to get around.

If people resort to doing this - what else do they do? I am a firm believer in that people are basically honest and responsible or they're not.

When I first started reading about people "sneaking" their dogs into places, I really thought that only the kids would be doing this, but I soon learned that age has nothing to do with acting grownup and being responsible. I realized that people of all ages are behaving this way -- with no regard for rules and often no regard for other people's feelings.

And skirting the issue with --- "I think it's stupid, It's really okay, I don't agree with it, I don't care what people think, I'm going to do it anyway," and coming across with reasoning and other excuses that are totally wrong(like "Therapy dogs are allowed to go anyplace.....") doesn't change anything. "Rationalization is a poor tool - when it comes to reason."

If people really want to know about Therapy Dogs and their privileges - there are hundreds of sites on the Internet --- but be sure to consider the sources when you read them....and not find just one or two that support your way of thinking.

These types of issues are never resolved because ......................

Carol Jean

I think that service/therapy dogs, whatever you want to call them, are fabulous. I know that if I were under emotional strain, Trixie would do an amazing job of comforting me and helping me through just about anything. Are there people who 'abuse' the idea by claiming their dogs are service animals, just so they can take them everywhere? Yes, I'm sure there are many.
Unfortunately, I fail to see how those who do can be weeded out via this site.:( I have seen this subject turn into a debate on numberous occassion with the same people over and over, as I'm sure most of us recall. I really hope this can be an imformative disscussion and not questioning motives.:rolleyes: Lol...wishful thinking, I know...

Well idk if this has been mentioned
but some close friends of mine have a cat
and the cat is trained to tell them when to take their medication
(one has lupus, the other aids, it's traumatic)
the cat has been in the newpaper and stuff

but they need to bring the cat with them places
because if they forget to take medication it's dangerous
So there's NOTHING wrong with that.
and there's nothing wrong with wanting your dog to sit on your lap during a plane ride!
I mean seriously, how could people be upset about that
(I never liked locking ANY of my dogs up in cages for plane rides anyways, if we were bringing the animals, we'd drive.)

a question
(because like previous posters I suffer from my own severe disabilities, which I wasn't going to share but whatever)
Our dog is a prescribed Emotional Support Dog, that's why we got her in the first place.
I had already had many problems from post traumatic stress, and a bunch of other problems I'd rather not share
but after I had multiple knee surgeries I fell into a trap, after gaining weight and such, and I started having panic attacks and some really disturbing things I don't want to bring up
I was so happy when the drama and downward spiral of my life stopped when we got Tila, I kept thinking "I'm too young for this" but there's was nothing I could do to stop it.
Would we be able to take her to a hotel? because I was actually going to cancel my vacation to Vegas because I couldn't take her. Because she was prescribed to me if I get a note from my doctors would we be able to take her?

Gosh I hope so, because I wanted this vacation, but I NEED my dog

Miss Sara --- There are a lot of facilities for you to stay at in Vegas (as well as most other places) that allow pets....but don't expect to be able to take them all over town with you.

There are web sites with "pet friendly hotels and motels" all over the country. Check them out.

I'm not sure even a doctor's note will let you run around casino's, attend shows, and do anything you want in Vegas -- and take your dog with you. But, I do know as I said that there are many places that will allow your pet to stay with you (Hotels/motels etc.).

Unfortunately - I think that your having to have your pet with you all the time - is just going to limited some of the things you can do. (You already mentioned possibly staying at home because you might not be able to take your dog with you.) But even with this "have-to-have" in your life - you can still do a lot of things and go a lot of places --and more all the time.

Good luck!


Carol Jean

I compeltley agree. Pretending your handicap so you can bring your dog everywhere is pathetic, and definitly nothing to be proud of. I would be ashamed of myself if I did that.

For those people who can't go anywhere w/o there dogs, they need to cut that imaginary imbilical cord. The dog will be fine, actually those people might even annoy their dogs and maybe their dogs would be happy if they were left alone for a bit!