My pap is three years old in nov. I was going to breed her till i found out they charge 400 for stud service. So going to get her spayed but worried cause people saying they can be to old. Dont want her hurt having it done.

One heat cycle is not going to bring on cancer. It is the repeated exposure of the dog to the hormones of the heat cycle that eventually can cause cancer in a mature dog.

If you have a tiny I would be more concerned about making sure you are not going to have retained teeth that will require another procedure that will require anesthesia and giving the little one a chance to mature physically.

The tiny tends to mature slowly and being slow growers they may not reach physical maturity until much later than a regular sized dog. Some studies are suggesting that spaying too early can actually be the cause of tumors and many other health issues that we are seeing in our pets. If you are interested in finding out more there are studies you can read about online in order to make your own decision.

Since you don't have a male dog that your female could be exposed to if she went into heat your situation is better than some I have seen arrive here at YT.

The stud service is not even the biggest part. You dog can actually die especially if you don't know what your doing and all the signs of distress. It can easily cost way more then that to breed a dog the right way there is testing that has to be done by specialists, there is X-rays the mom has to have done, there is caring for the pups until 12 weeks old and getting them at least one set of shots, docking the tail, removing the dew claws and if they need a c-section it could cost even more. Most reputable breeders will not just give breeding rights either so if you were able to get breeding rights with no problems the lines are probably not worth continuing. Breeding shoukd only be done to better the breed. No spaying your dog is more dangerous then spaying her. Every heat she has increases her risk of mammary cancer and there is also an infection that she can get that can kill her and even if emergency surgery is done she still has the chance of dying months later.

Every heat they go through increases there risk of getting mammary cancer including the first heat. There are no study's done on small dogs just large dogs and large dogs are extremely different. When they say spaying to early they are talking about 5 months and earlier and like I have said there is no small dog study's to back that up. I do not think tiny dogs grow slower then an average sized yorkie. Even if you get the dog spayed at 6 months the vet knows which teeth are baby teeth and can pull them. I'm not a big fan of using scare tactics to try and get people to wait to long to get there dog spayed when there is no science to back it up.

The incidence of mammary tumors in dogs that have experienced one heat cycle is extremely low. The largest amount of tumors occur in females over 6 years of age with 45% of those being cancerous and 55% being benign.

I would suggest that you not try to scare people when you don't have any true knowledge about the subject.

Well let's see your links? Oh wait there are no study's on small dogs. I looked at a website that was dedicated just to mammary cancer as well as other stuff so I do have knowledge a lot obviously more then you sense you were saying false info about spaying causing other cancers and such non sense. I'm just giving the facts. You are saying stuff that you can't even back up with science.

I definitely do not want another surgery for teeth. So I want to wait that out for sure.

A vet can pull baby teeth at 6 months or later they know which ones are baby teeth.

Here is an interesting read...
Don't Make This Mistake When Scheduling Your Dog's Neutering Procedure

and another...http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf

Yes they can pull after 6 months so you will be perfectly fine waiting until after Christmas to have her spayed! She will put on a bit of weight and lose a couple of teeth on her own and get to recover with mommy home by her side!

You are a great mommy to lily and all of your girls :love:

At least one of those vets is known to be controversial. It needs to be stressed that there have been NO studies done on small breed dogs only large breed. It's also important to note that it's is not safe to have an intact female as they get older because then you risky the infection of the uterus that if not taken care of in 48 hours can kill your dog and even if you get the surgery which is an emergency spay they can still die even months later when you think there in the clear. Why take that risk? People need to know what real facts and what's myth. Most of these things people are saying in those articles are just myths and there is nothing scientific to back it up. It's so bothering to me when people are anti spay intact it's even scary when we are talking about very tiny dogs.

Thank you for not breeding!!!

I am not anti-spay/neuter but I have seen some things growth wise and hormone wise that has scared me in a lot of friends dogs and rescue dogs that I know. I have had a few friends that had their dogs get Pyometra they are breeder/exhibitors only one lost their life. That does scare me because there can be no symptoms and is a silent killer however from what I have read it is pretty rare for that to happen.

Exactly Taylor....comparison....If my dog's dentist told me to have a hysterectomy because his horses get fibroids after delivering 2 foals (sp) now buy my book!


Rhonda, Mini was 2lbs when she had 2.5 hours of surgery to reconstruct her entire eye...anesthesia an all. She was 3lbs when spayed, anesthesia and all, she was almost 4lbs when she had her hips replace, anesthesia and all! don't worry...all dogs are safe under the care of a trusted/reputable veterinarian.

Not as rare anymore from what I'm hearing. One women on here said two of her older females had gotten it and died even after surgery. My aunts dog got it and died just a few months later. The issues you are talking about are even rarer and there's not even enough evidence to support a study. Yes with bigger dogs it can have some issues but with smaller dogs it's not the same. Most of the time these issues are only popping up if say a dog was spayed at 14 weeks and young like that not 6 months. 6 months is not to young and is safe and there is more science to back it up then disprove it.

I will answer your original question and this is what I this is best. Pebbles was 6/almost 7 months old when she was spayed. I actually wish that I had her spayed a little earlier because she has lost a lot of teeth. When he did the spay he found a puppy tooth right in the front on the bottom. When he removed it this left a huge space and caused all of her adult teeth to become lose over time. Since then she has lost all of her lower from teeth (the tiny ones) and several of the top teeth as well. Poor breeding I am sure but the space definetly contributed to her teeth falling out. No...they were not removed during dentals. Just fell out.

As for the argument about growth plates needing to close at the magical year old mark is a very broad statement. I've posted about this before and that GENERAL rule is for all different size dogs. Larger dogs growth plate take longer to close than smaller breed dogs. We own small breed Yorkies with much smaller bones VS a Great Dane.

IMO I think that you should chose an age that you feel comfortable with and if that's in the next few months so be it. It's not like you are planning not to spay you are asking what our opinions is regarding the correct age.

To the person who posted about Dr. Mercola.....well I'm sure most here know my thoughts on him. :rolleyes:

First I'm no expert, if you are not experienced you should have Vet check and discuss Spaying/Teeth around 4 1/2 to 5 months. The Canines can cause serious irreversible problems if the don't come in right and push/dissolve the babies. This usually starts happening around 5 months, especially the lowers, if they come up inside and the baby teeth are stubborn, you might wind up with the canines resting in the upper palate. If the canine is half grown and baby tooth is solid, check with Vet, the baby tooth removal allows the perm tooth to grow out into that empty space for normal alignment.

Pyometra isn't really that rare. I work in a vet clinic and I'd say we see at least 1-2 dogs a month that need emergency surgery for it. And it becomes A LOT more expensive than your typical spay. They need to be hospitalized for several days on IV antibiotics and sadly some of them still don't make it. I really wish more vets would talk to owners about the risks. My own dog had a mild case of it. Luckily I caught it early. At the time, I had no idea that could even happen (this was long before I started working in a vet clinic) and my vet at the time had never mentioned it.

Thank you for answering my question. My vet wanted to wait until October at least. He did not agree to do sooner but will do later. I have a week off during Thanksgiving and 2 off during Christmas. Felt like one of those times would be best. I will spay just trying to decide if doing it at 8 months vs 1 year is better. Thanks again.

In my opinion I would do 8 months so she doesn't go into heat. They bounce back and heal pretty fast as pups. If she goes into heat you have to end up wait three months after the heat ends I believe until you can spay.

Personally, I think that sooner would be better if she has any retained teeth. Other than that I'd say either is perfectly fine. If you were thinking that she would need 2 weeks for recovery IMO they bounce back very quickly after a spay. The other thing that you need to consider is that the longer you wait the greater her chance of being in heat and pushing the spay back even further. What I am saying is that if at Thanksgiving she is not yet in heat then a spay would be a go. But what if you happen to wait until Christmas and then she does go into heat. That wound leave you with having to push it back to a time that you would not be off. Something to think about as well. They will not spay if they are in heat. The longer you wait the greater your chances will be that it could happen. Just a little more to think about in your decision.

That was my point as well. I think the longer you wait the greater the chance of going into heat if the idea is to be able to spend time with her after her spay.


:thumbup:

Please remember they bounce back in two days or less sometimes, but you need to watch exertion for at least two weeks, I ddi three weeks with Ginger. The outer cut will heal in about a week, but it takes longer for the internal cut (Abdominal) to heal. You'll be able to feel it, swelling going down, sutures dissolving and such.

I have taken the time to do my research and I suggest you take the time to inform yourself before giving out advice that you have not checked out for yourself. Just echoing what you have heard someone else say is not a sound way of educating yourself.

Here you go Taylor:

Mammary Cancer in Dogs


It goes on to say:

I'm not echoing my dear but there will always be people who think there opinion is the only opinion I just hope and pray that when give the correct info and facts they chose to follow them rather then others opinion. I will not bicker with you anymore I know I have post facts with science to back it up unlike some.

Thank you, I couldn't find my darn link. I need to keep a book or something with my links lol

You need to get your facts straight. I have NEVER said that early spaying causes cancer in anyone!!! NEVER! I did say that the incidence of mammary cancer in dogs that have had one heat cycle is very low. Less than 6 percent. The facts are out there and maybe you should read more than one article. There are breeders that have bred dogs for years that have 0 incidence of mammary cancer. The statics show that most mammary tumors are in dogs between the ages of 6 and 10 years of age and that 55% of those tumors are benign. Those are facts and not opinion.

There are very sound reasons to wait to have a tiny dog spayed. Many times, but not all the time, they are not as strong as a regular sized dog just because of the kind of genetic manipulation that was done to develop a tiny. I would not risk putting a young tiny through a spay procedure not knowing if her heart could take it and also not being aware of future problems that may develop. That is my opinion and I have every right to state it. If your opinion differs then it is just your opinion against mine.

I will not be misquoted or misrepresented by you! I would advise you once more....there are opinions and then there are facts. If you have an opinion---FINE! State it as just that, an opinion! Attacking people for not agreeing with you is counterproductive

Not all dogs and not even a large percentage of dogs that go through a heat cycle develop mammary cancer so don't infer that they do. If you or anyone else does not believe me then look it up. The information is easy enough to find. I'm not going to do it for you. I am disgusted by you constant attacks on people who differ with you.

First off I never said you did but u did say this
Which is not true on so many levels one there are no study's in small dogs and two there is no science to back up that early spaying can cause "tumors" when getting the pre surgery blood work and nothing being wrong on it or with the dog anesthesia is perfectly safe and that is a fact. Most statistics are made up or have no real truth to them. Dogs who are not spayed before there first heat have an 8% chance of getting mammary cancer and it goes much higher after the next heat and then so on. It is quoted above if you need to see that. Again I am posting facts with science to back them up but a lot of what your posting just your opinion. I will never sit back and watch someone give the wrong info because it can be dangerous. I believe if any attacking is being done it's by you. Have a lovely day :)

The information that you are presenting to the forum is NOT FACTUAL. I shared a link previously that stated