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ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyMom (Post 4371214)

Hello all! My little 3 year old Baby Girl is going into her 5th heat (i think) and we want to have puppies. I rescued her from a situation where her 88 year old human owner was being abused. We got my elderly friend to safety and I took the last pup so she could keep her one little precious doggie (my baby's mommy). She has been a TOTAL BLESSING...OMG I love this dog so much!!! My new husband and I want to have the joy of pups since we can't have our own children :( Does anyone have any advice as to how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care? We live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I have read up on the pregnancy and delivery information, plus my 88 year old friend taught me everything (she allowed her dog one litter per year). I'm new to this site and very excited to meet fellow Yorkie lovers. They truly are the best breed of small dogs on the entire planet!!! In my humble opinion, blessings...BabyMom

Welcome to YT! Are you able to get in contact with your little girl's breeder and maybe she can answer some of your questions and recommend a stud? My breeder has told me on several occasions if I would like to breed any of my pups to contact them and they're merely a phone call away and if need be they can come to my home to help...if by chance they aren't available they would get me in touch with a breeder friend. Some ppl advertise for a stud...but if the breeder knows of a few that could help. People can charge whatever they want in regards to a stud fee ranging from $300 to pick of the litter which can be the equivalent of $1500(+). It's what you're willing to pay. Good luck with your decision!

gemy	01-07-2014 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

My answer is not going to do her one whit of good; but in brief:

How to pursue a good stud? First have a good female yourself, that is Championed at a reputable registry, has had all the health screenings done, and is free herself of any illness. That has the correct temperament for the breed.

Next investigate the Yorkie male champions and do different analysis on what they bring to the breeding table. Then through the contacts you have made in the show world, and ideally examining yourself the intended stud, and discussing a potential mating with the stud's owner.

You then do the pre breeding tests - one of which is brucellosis.

Stud fees vary and are set by the stud owner and are negotiated with the bitch's owner.

Care of the pregnant bitch: Many on line sources for this as well as books from the library.

They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

And just exactly what help to avoid dogs going into shelters is not given. If your bitch is not bred, then there can be no puppies of hers going into a shelter.

What you fail to understand is that those three or four questions, many of us have spent a lifetime learning. That there are many books out there and even some on-line tools, that a beginner can access to begin to understand the complexities and responsibilities of breeding. These are not questions that have an answer that can be typed out in two lines.
.

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4371757)

And just exactly what help to avoid dogs going into shelters is not given. If your bitch is not bred, then there can be no puppies of hers going into a shelter. Please don't cherry pick words from my post to fit your needs. There was a full statement there, not just about shelters. That was part of a list of things.

What you fail to understand is that those three or four questions, many of us have spent a lifetime learning. That there are many books out there and even some on-line tools, that a beginner can access to begin to understand the complexities and responsibilities of breeding. These are not questions that have an answer that can be typed out in two lines.
.

^^ That would have been a perfect answer! Maybe an author name of said books, or even a link or two. No need to be snarky. :thumbdown

DBlain

01-07-2014 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

I also never said that "breeding is fluff". I simply pointed out that if someone truly wanted the questions answered that she asked, she'd get more answers asking vets rather than on a public forum because everyone just jumps in with "don't do it" (as many posted above). I said to "Stick to the "fluff" posts about clothing and potty training." because THOSE are fluff, not breeding.

I've read tons and tons of these posts where someone asks a question about breeding and everyone jumps on them. I didn't say everyone was rude, just that no one is actually going to answer the questions. They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Offer the actual answers to the questions. Sure, don't withhold the very real possibility of a bad outcome, just like ANY pregnancy/birth. 24hrs later and not a single person, who would actually know the answers (or an estimate) has given it.

I've been a member here for a while and made it a priority to read as much as I could before posting (everything my "newbie" membership allows). Not jumping in naive to the community or asking things that have been asked a million times, and the very real trend, is that if you want to breed, do not mention it here. Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

You say you have read a lot here, but don't see this as a community, I am surprised by that because I have first hand seen support after support for members when needed. Yorkie Talk however is not a breeding site, although there is section here specifically for breeding, which if the OP bothered to look at she most likely would not have started this thread. No one is going to give her the answers she is looking for, because 99.5% of the members don't think this type of person should be breeding a dog let along a small toy breed. And to be quite honest just about everyone that comes on here posting these type of questions are not qualified to breed because if they were they would not be on Yorkie Talk looking for information, they would be involved in a breed club, have a mentor and be working with a vet.

If new members spent more time reading Yorkie Talk then blurting out questions that have been discussed and discussed here, they might get nicer responses. You are right though this is not a place to come for medical advice because this board is primarily made up of posts based on personal experiences and opinions. We are not WEB Vet.

I see the OP has not even been back since yesterday, makes me wonder if this is a yank your chain type of thread, or perhaps she has read more and seen the light.

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 01:53 PM

If you go to google (where EVERYONE starts their research these days) and type in "yorkie forum" or "yorkie breeding" or anything related, YT takes up most of the first page. So you click to come here and on the very first page of YT they tell you to sign up and start posting. That is what people are doing and they are being jumped for it.

Sure, there is support for others when they have lost a dog or other health issues, or want to sell their dog clothing, etc. But heaven forbid they say the "B" word. Every single post I have read that anyone asks for any comradery, help or direction regarding breeding, they are not given it. They are bombarded with posts criticizing them for their choices. Many times, you only know a short paragraph about them and are assuming the worst.

It really comes across as there are a handful of people who are breeders on here and refuse to allow anyone else on the bandwagon. They circle the horses and start throwing rocks at the newcomer. It's really off putting.

Do I think everyone should breed their animals? No. Is breeding a dog more risky than a human? Absolutely not. EVERY pregnancy has the potential to end in death. For the mom and puppies. No one thinks that their dog is a superdog. You don't get to just assume that someone is dirtfloor poor and wont be smart enough to secure proper medical needs as well as have a fund for such cases. Are there people who do? Sure. But it is not fair to assume that every person does.

What I got from her post, was she was waning to see what costs range and what it entails. She didn't ask for everyone's snarky, judgmental posts. You can say you weren't, but that's just not the case. The good ol' boys club is strong here at YT.

I also call BS on the statement of breeders only doing it to "better the breed". YES, breeders do it for money. For selling puppies, for showing and winning. For having a house full of puppies because it's fun and they love it. For a whole slew of reasons. Sure, bettering the breed is a ideal, but it is definitely NOT the sole purpose of breeding.

I do have extensive knowledge in breeding. Different breeds of dogs as well as other animals. Saying I don't is judging me with zero basis.

I think it is rude and disrespectful to jump on someone's post and pretty much calling them ignorant and irresponsible. Dedicating posts full of irrelevant statements that had nothing do do with what was originally asked. It's incredibly immature and frankly, gives the overall site a bad rap.

Showing from the flood of inbox posts I've received, I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so. Just the only one brave enough to publicly stand up for others and point out when people are being less than supportive.

It's a sad day when grown women (and men) can't be gracious with one another.

DBlain

01-07-2014 02:16 PM

"Hi and welcome to YorkieTalk. We have a very friendly and approachable community, and feel free to ask any questions you may have regarding your Yorkshire Terrier. But please do a search (http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/search.php) for the topic before you post, as many topics have been covered in great detail and you may be able to find the answer within. If you did not find an answer to your question, then feel free to post a new thread regarding your question."

Above is the very first thing that is suggested to new members. I really think if more did that there would be less conflict. Your feeling that there is a small group of breeders on here and they don't want anyone else in their circle is only half true. True there is only a handful of breeders that are active here, mostly because YT is not big on hyping puppies for sale, so the only breeders that to stay active here do it to be part of the community and most never sell a puppy through YT, honestly it is NOT about competition. I never bred a dog or have no desire to do so, but after being on the site for over 2 years I am amazed at how often knowledgeable members spend hours of their own time posting responses to threads that IMHO sound like they were posted by a juvenile. They do it not just to give the OP advice but in hope that someone else reading the thread will take the advice as well. I think some of the posts that you object to are ones written out of frustration because it the same song, just a different day and when you are here longer you might start feeling the same.

Personally I prefer to ignore the new member with the old question, but not sure if that is the answer either. Perhaps just a link to the above statement from the YT rules might be the best approach.

Yorkiemom1

01-07-2014 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

I also never said that "breeding is fluff". I simply pointed out that if someone truly wanted the questions answered that she asked, she'd get more answers asking vets rather than on a public forum because everyone just jumps in with "don't do it" (as many posted above). I said to "Stick to the "fluff" posts about clothing and potty training." because THOSE are fluff, not breeding.

I've read tons and tons of these posts where someone asks a question about breeding and everyone jumps on them. I didn't say everyone was rude, just that no one is actually going to answer the questions. They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Offer the actual answers to the questions. Sure, don't withhold the very real possibility of a bad outcome, just like ANY pregnancy/birth. 24hrs later and not a single person, who would actually know the answers (or an estimate) has given it.

I've been a member here for a while and made it a priority to read as much as I could before posting (everything my "newbie" membership allows). Not jumping in naive to the community or asking things that have been asked a million times, and the very real trend, is that if you want to breed, do not mention it here. Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

It is very sad that easily 90% of the people that come for advice on breeding, are PET owners, and are not referencing breeding quality breeding stock with pedigrees that have been extensively tested and proven not to be carriers of devastating genetic abnormalities, which will carelessly be passed onto offspring. "DO NOT BREED YOUR PET" is indeed the help that is given to "avoid ruining the breed standard". If someone comes to me and asks how to build a bomb, I do not feel obligated by ethics or morality, to assume they will build it regardless, so I will go ahead and give feedback on how to do it. That kind of makes me responsible for whatever the outcome is. It is all about the dogs for me. If someone comes and it is evident that they have invested considerable time and money into the "book learning" aspect of learning about breeding, and they have attended shows and networked with professionals, and they have invested considerable money constructing a solid structure for their breeding program, with proven lines and pedigrees that justify continuing to breed them into the future....these are serious people with a passion for the breed, that are sincerely making the emotional and financial effort to do what is best for the dogs, and I have and will continue to educate and work with these individuals. This all takes a couple of years, at the very least. I can assure you, you will associate with people that will not coddle and pat and hug on you.....you will be educated and taught and guided and directed by people whose primary concern is all about the dogs, the BREED, not you and your feelings. You will be brought into the "circle" by fire and brimstone, just like with ANY professional organization. Dont think this forum is automatically against people wanting to breed. This is NOT the place to learn how to become an ethical, responsible breeder, any more than you can learn how to be a vet or a teacher or a lawyer by coming here. Lastly but most importantly, there ACTUALLY have been people that have read and learned from posts, even though the message was not "warm and fuzzy" and may not have been expected or appreciated....contrary to what you said, not everyone will forge ahead and breed regardless of what is said....some do learn and see the light and do not continue down that slippery slope.

Kaylee32

01-07-2014 02:17 PM

While I do agree that you shouldn't just go into breeding blind and think everything is going to turn out fine, I also don't think that just because you are a beginner that you do not need to breed. Every great breeder in the world starts out somewhere. I bred my yorkie in the summer of last year, but before I did I read up on everything, I spent a couple of months before making my decision talking it over with my vet (who is a breeding expert and has bred small dogs for many years), I did all the genetic health testing that was needed on Ellie and the stud, I had everything prepared and lined up, and I had the breeder of my girl on the phone while she was giving birth. I was blessed and Ellie had a very easy birth to four beautiful babies(two boys and two girls). She was a great mother and she took to mothering very well. While I realize that is not always the case in breeding, I think me having everything lined up really helped. I do agree with everyone else that no matter how good of a mother your dog is, it is a lot of work. I was constantly up checking on them and Ellie making sure everything was fine and safe for them. Money is also a big factor. Although there were no emergency vet bills I had to pay for, thats not to say it couldn't have happened and I still had plenty of money lined up just in case. At the end of it all I had spent a lot of money and time and effort but it had been worth it. We kept one little girl(Lilly Anne) and the rest went to great homes where I hear from them at least once a week and am always getting pictures. I am not sure if it is something I would ever want to do again and it is certainly not something I would do for a living, but it was a great experience. You have to take the time to research and learn and prepare and make sure what is right for you and your girl. In your heart you will know whether it is the right thing to do or not.

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371830)

If you go to google (where EVERYONE starts their research these days) and type in "yorkie forum" or "yorkie breeding" or anything related, YT takes up most of the first page. So you click to come here and on the very first page of YT they tell you to sign up and start posting. That is what people are doing and they are being jumped for it. 
 
Sure, there is support for others when they have lost a dog or other health issues, or want to sell their dog clothing, etc. But heaven forbid they say the "B" word. Every single post I have read that anyone asks for any comradery, help or direction regarding breeding, they are not given it. They are bombarded with posts criticizing them for their choices. Many times, you only know a short paragraph about them and are assuming the worst. 
 
It really comes across as there are a handful of people who are breeders on here and refuse to allow anyone else on the bandwagon. They circle the horses and start throwing rocks at the newcomer. It's really off putting. 
 
Do I think everyone should breed their animals? No. Is breeding a dog more risky than a human? Absolutely not. EVERY pregnancy has the potential to end in death. For the mom and puppies. No one thinks that their dog is a superdog. You don't get to just assume that someone is dirtfloor poor and wont be smart enough to secure proper medical needs as well as have a fund for such cases. Are there people who do? Sure. But it is not fair to assume that every person does.
 
What I got from her post, was she was waning to see what costs range and what it entails. She didn't ask for everyone's snarky, judgmental posts. You can say you weren't, but that's just not the case. The good ol' boys club is strong here at YT. 
 
I also call BS on the statement of breeders only doing it to "better the breed". YES, breeders do it for money. For selling puppies, for showing and winning. For having a house full of puppies because it's fun and they love it. For a whole slew of reasons. Sure, bettering the breed is a ideal, but it is definitely NOT the sole purpose of breeding. 
 
I do have extensive knowledge in breeding. Different breeds of dogs as well as other animals. Saying I don't is judging me with zero basis. 
 
I think it is rude and disrespectful to jump on someone's post and pretty much calling them ignorant and irresponsible. Dedicating posts full of irrelevant statements that had nothing do do with what was originally asked. It's incredibly immature and frankly, gives the overall site a bad rap. 
 
Showing from the flood of inbox posts I've received, I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so. Just the only one brave enough to publicly stand up for others and point out when people are being less than supportive. 
 
It's a sad day when grown women (and men) can't be gracious with one another.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The thing is everyone has an opinion and different ways of "saying" things. Sometimes we can't get the "jist" of how someone is coming I'm off through a keyboard and it can come off rude/disrespectful when the poster(s) didn't mean it that way at all. So although I would LOVE if people would "just answer questions" from the OP without judgments or lectures...if there are any. I doubt it's going to happen. I hope if the OP for this thread is still out there. She/he is reading up on breeding. There are plenty of links in the breeders section, contact your original breeder and see if she/he would assist with any further questions and with the whelp, speak with your female's vet and get his recommendation in terms of if she could successfully whelp. I'm all about researching but I would also ask a breeder in your area if you could assist with a whelp...there's nothing like hands on learning. OP I see you're in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area I would contact breeders there. If you don't feel comfortable doing that send me a pm and I can ask my breeder(I'm in Ft. Hood) to contact u so she can answer any of your questions

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371748)

That's not really how a good breeder operates.

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4371856)

That's not really how a good breeder operates.

What you and I consider a good breeder could be and probably are a bit different.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371830)

I encourage you to get to know a few of the good breeders here, to walk around your local shelters and to read about all the sick animals who's breeder simply just didn't care there are a lots of post to chose from to read about that.reputable breeders do breed simply to better the breed but they can be hard to find but they are out there. A true reputable breeder often makes no money and just brakes even. You can choose to believe it or not but it is a fact. Most people simply don't care enough about these animals or don't see a big deal in breeding but I see these animals as living beings who feel pain and have needs. Why would you want to know breed right instead take the chance of having puppies with genetic illnesses that will suffer there whole lives which in my opinion is straight out cruelty. If you want to breed that's fine if you do it right if not then I will go round and round with you all day because I have first hand seen a dog who was confused and suffering because the breeder didn't care to do things right. I have sat in another room crying because of the pain and confusion in her eyes. I will always stand up for dogs who simply have no voice because that is who needs people to stand up for them!

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371857)

What you and I consider a good breeder could be and probably are a bit different.

A reputable breeder does not just stud out to anyone they want to make sure the female is genetically healthy, that her lines are healthy, that she follows the standard and so on. A reputable breeder does not just stick two dogs together. Also unless they are giving a female to another breeder they trust they also have spay contracts where the female has to be fixed because they don't just want anyone using there lines.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371775)

^^ That would have been a perfect answer! Maybe an author name of said books, or even a link or two. No need to be snarky. :thumbdown

You came on here calling people judgmental some of who are very respected breeders and bash a bored that many love and have found life time friends on of course people are gonna be angry and snarky!

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4371864)

A reputable breeder does not just stud out to anyone they want to make sure the female is genetically healthy, that her lines are healthy, that she follows the standard and so on. A reputable breeder does not just stick two dogs together. Also unless they are giving a female to another breeder they trust they also have spay contracts where the female has to be she was fixed because they don't just want anyone using there lines.

Hmmmm....I dont see anywhere in my posts where I stated a breeder would just "stud out". I stated the OP should contact her girl's breeder and she may know of available studs and how much it would cost. Whether or not the OP is able to get a stud she desires is on her and the stud's owner. Did the OP state her yorkie wasn't genetically healthy or didn't have the proper testing or that she was just sticking two animals together? For all I know this pup could have been in the show ring previously and is an awesome representation of the breed and has already been given the vet's go ahead to breed. I don't make assumptions.

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