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ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyMom (Post 4371214)

Hello all! My little 3 year old Baby Girl is going into her 5th heat (i think) and we want to have puppies. I rescued her from a situation where her 88 year old human owner was being abused. We got my elderly friend to safety and I took the last pup so she could keep her one little precious doggie (my baby's mommy). She has been a TOTAL BLESSING...OMG I love this dog so much!!! My new husband and I want to have the joy of pups since we can't have our own children :( Does anyone have any advice as to how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care? We live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I have read up on the pregnancy and delivery information, plus my 88 year old friend taught me everything (she allowed her dog one litter per year). I'm new to this site and very excited to meet fellow Yorkie lovers. They truly are the best breed of small dogs on the entire planet!!! In my humble opinion, blessings...BabyMom

Welcome to YT! Are you able to get in contact with your little girl's breeder and maybe she can answer some of your questions and recommend a stud? My breeder has told me on several occasions if I would like to breed any of my pups to contact them and they're merely a phone call away and if need be they can come to my home to help...if by chance they aren't available they would get me in touch with a breeder friend. Some ppl advertise for a stud...but if the breeder knows of a few that could help. People can charge whatever they want in regards to a stud fee ranging from $300 to pick of the litter which can be the equivalent of $1500(+). It's what you're willing to pay. Good luck with your decision!

gemy	01-07-2014 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

My answer is not going to do her one whit of good; but in brief:

How to pursue a good stud? First have a good female yourself, that is Championed at a reputable registry, has had all the health screenings done, and is free herself of any illness. That has the correct temperament for the breed.

Next investigate the Yorkie male champions and do different analysis on what they bring to the breeding table. Then through the contacts you have made in the show world, and ideally examining yourself the intended stud, and discussing a potential mating with the stud's owner.

You then do the pre breeding tests - one of which is brucellosis.

Stud fees vary and are set by the stud owner and are negotiated with the bitch's owner.

Care of the pregnant bitch: Many on line sources for this as well as books from the library.

They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

And just exactly what help to avoid dogs going into shelters is not given. If your bitch is not bred, then there can be no puppies of hers going into a shelter.

What you fail to understand is that those three or four questions, many of us have spent a lifetime learning. That there are many books out there and even some on-line tools, that a beginner can access to begin to understand the complexities and responsibilities of breeding. These are not questions that have an answer that can be typed out in two lines.
.

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4371757)

And just exactly what help to avoid dogs going into shelters is not given. If your bitch is not bred, then there can be no puppies of hers going into a shelter. Please don't cherry pick words from my post to fit your needs. There was a full statement there, not just about shelters. That was part of a list of things.

What you fail to understand is that those three or four questions, many of us have spent a lifetime learning. That there are many books out there and even some on-line tools, that a beginner can access to begin to understand the complexities and responsibilities of breeding. These are not questions that have an answer that can be typed out in two lines.
.

^^ That would have been a perfect answer! Maybe an author name of said books, or even a link or two. No need to be snarky. :thumbdown

DBlain

01-07-2014 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

I also never said that "breeding is fluff". I simply pointed out that if someone truly wanted the questions answered that she asked, she'd get more answers asking vets rather than on a public forum because everyone just jumps in with "don't do it" (as many posted above). I said to "Stick to the "fluff" posts about clothing and potty training." because THOSE are fluff, not breeding.

I've read tons and tons of these posts where someone asks a question about breeding and everyone jumps on them. I didn't say everyone was rude, just that no one is actually going to answer the questions. They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Offer the actual answers to the questions. Sure, don't withhold the very real possibility of a bad outcome, just like ANY pregnancy/birth. 24hrs later and not a single person, who would actually know the answers (or an estimate) has given it.

I've been a member here for a while and made it a priority to read as much as I could before posting (everything my "newbie" membership allows). Not jumping in naive to the community or asking things that have been asked a million times, and the very real trend, is that if you want to breed, do not mention it here. Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

You say you have read a lot here, but don't see this as a community, I am surprised by that because I have first hand seen support after support for members when needed. Yorkie Talk however is not a breeding site, although there is section here specifically for breeding, which if the OP bothered to look at she most likely would not have started this thread. No one is going to give her the answers she is looking for, because 99.5% of the members don't think this type of person should be breeding a dog let along a small toy breed. And to be quite honest just about everyone that comes on here posting these type of questions are not qualified to breed because if they were they would not be on Yorkie Talk looking for information, they would be involved in a breed club, have a mentor and be working with a vet.

If new members spent more time reading Yorkie Talk then blurting out questions that have been discussed and discussed here, they might get nicer responses. You are right though this is not a place to come for medical advice because this board is primarily made up of posts based on personal experiences and opinions. We are not WEB Vet.

I see the OP has not even been back since yesterday, makes me wonder if this is a yank your chain type of thread, or perhaps she has read more and seen the light.

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 01:53 PM

If you go to google (where EVERYONE starts their research these days) and type in "yorkie forum" or "yorkie breeding" or anything related, YT takes up most of the first page. So you click to come here and on the very first page of YT they tell you to sign up and start posting. That is what people are doing and they are being jumped for it.

Sure, there is support for others when they have lost a dog or other health issues, or want to sell their dog clothing, etc. But heaven forbid they say the "B" word. Every single post I have read that anyone asks for any comradery, help or direction regarding breeding, they are not given it. They are bombarded with posts criticizing them for their choices. Many times, you only know a short paragraph about them and are assuming the worst.

It really comes across as there are a handful of people who are breeders on here and refuse to allow anyone else on the bandwagon. They circle the horses and start throwing rocks at the newcomer. It's really off putting.

Do I think everyone should breed their animals? No. Is breeding a dog more risky than a human? Absolutely not. EVERY pregnancy has the potential to end in death. For the mom and puppies. No one thinks that their dog is a superdog. You don't get to just assume that someone is dirtfloor poor and wont be smart enough to secure proper medical needs as well as have a fund for such cases. Are there people who do? Sure. But it is not fair to assume that every person does.

What I got from her post, was she was waning to see what costs range and what it entails. She didn't ask for everyone's snarky, judgmental posts. You can say you weren't, but that's just not the case. The good ol' boys club is strong here at YT.

I also call BS on the statement of breeders only doing it to "better the breed". YES, breeders do it for money. For selling puppies, for showing and winning. For having a house full of puppies because it's fun and they love it. For a whole slew of reasons. Sure, bettering the breed is a ideal, but it is definitely NOT the sole purpose of breeding.

I do have extensive knowledge in breeding. Different breeds of dogs as well as other animals. Saying I don't is judging me with zero basis.

I think it is rude and disrespectful to jump on someone's post and pretty much calling them ignorant and irresponsible. Dedicating posts full of irrelevant statements that had nothing do do with what was originally asked. It's incredibly immature and frankly, gives the overall site a bad rap.

Showing from the flood of inbox posts I've received, I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so. Just the only one brave enough to publicly stand up for others and point out when people are being less than supportive.

It's a sad day when grown women (and men) can't be gracious with one another.

DBlain

01-07-2014 02:16 PM

"Hi and welcome to YorkieTalk. We have a very friendly and approachable community, and feel free to ask any questions you may have regarding your Yorkshire Terrier. But please do a search (http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/search.php) for the topic before you post, as many topics have been covered in great detail and you may be able to find the answer within. If you did not find an answer to your question, then feel free to post a new thread regarding your question."

Above is the very first thing that is suggested to new members. I really think if more did that there would be less conflict. Your feeling that there is a small group of breeders on here and they don't want anyone else in their circle is only half true. True there is only a handful of breeders that are active here, mostly because YT is not big on hyping puppies for sale, so the only breeders that to stay active here do it to be part of the community and most never sell a puppy through YT, honestly it is NOT about competition. I never bred a dog or have no desire to do so, but after being on the site for over 2 years I am amazed at how often knowledgeable members spend hours of their own time posting responses to threads that IMHO sound like they were posted by a juvenile. They do it not just to give the OP advice but in hope that someone else reading the thread will take the advice as well. I think some of the posts that you object to are ones written out of frustration because it the same song, just a different day and when you are here longer you might start feeling the same.

Personally I prefer to ignore the new member with the old question, but not sure if that is the answer either. Perhaps just a link to the above statement from the YT rules might be the best approach.

Yorkiemom1

01-07-2014 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

I also never said that "breeding is fluff". I simply pointed out that if someone truly wanted the questions answered that she asked, she'd get more answers asking vets rather than on a public forum because everyone just jumps in with "don't do it" (as many posted above). I said to "Stick to the "fluff" posts about clothing and potty training." because THOSE are fluff, not breeding.

I've read tons and tons of these posts where someone asks a question about breeding and everyone jumps on them. I didn't say everyone was rude, just that no one is actually going to answer the questions. They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Offer the actual answers to the questions. Sure, don't withhold the very real possibility of a bad outcome, just like ANY pregnancy/birth. 24hrs later and not a single person, who would actually know the answers (or an estimate) has given it.

I've been a member here for a while and made it a priority to read as much as I could before posting (everything my "newbie" membership allows). Not jumping in naive to the community or asking things that have been asked a million times, and the very real trend, is that if you want to breed, do not mention it here. Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

It is very sad that easily 90% of the people that come for advice on breeding, are PET owners, and are not referencing breeding quality breeding stock with pedigrees that have been extensively tested and proven not to be carriers of devastating genetic abnormalities, which will carelessly be passed onto offspring. "DO NOT BREED YOUR PET" is indeed the help that is given to "avoid ruining the breed standard". If someone comes to me and asks how to build a bomb, I do not feel obligated by ethics or morality, to assume they will build it regardless, so I will go ahead and give feedback on how to do it. That kind of makes me responsible for whatever the outcome is. It is all about the dogs for me. If someone comes and it is evident that they have invested considerable time and money into the "book learning" aspect of learning about breeding, and they have attended shows and networked with professionals, and they have invested considerable money constructing a solid structure for their breeding program, with proven lines and pedigrees that justify continuing to breed them into the future....these are serious people with a passion for the breed, that are sincerely making the emotional and financial effort to do what is best for the dogs, and I have and will continue to educate and work with these individuals. This all takes a couple of years, at the very least. I can assure you, you will associate with people that will not coddle and pat and hug on you.....you will be educated and taught and guided and directed by people whose primary concern is all about the dogs, the BREED, not you and your feelings. You will be brought into the "circle" by fire and brimstone, just like with ANY professional organization. Dont think this forum is automatically against people wanting to breed. This is NOT the place to learn how to become an ethical, responsible breeder, any more than you can learn how to be a vet or a teacher or a lawyer by coming here. Lastly but most importantly, there ACTUALLY have been people that have read and learned from posts, even though the message was not "warm and fuzzy" and may not have been expected or appreciated....contrary to what you said, not everyone will forge ahead and breed regardless of what is said....some do learn and see the light and do not continue down that slippery slope.

Kaylee32

01-07-2014 02:17 PM

While I do agree that you shouldn't just go into breeding blind and think everything is going to turn out fine, I also don't think that just because you are a beginner that you do not need to breed. Every great breeder in the world starts out somewhere. I bred my yorkie in the summer of last year, but before I did I read up on everything, I spent a couple of months before making my decision talking it over with my vet (who is a breeding expert and has bred small dogs for many years), I did all the genetic health testing that was needed on Ellie and the stud, I had everything prepared and lined up, and I had the breeder of my girl on the phone while she was giving birth. I was blessed and Ellie had a very easy birth to four beautiful babies(two boys and two girls). She was a great mother and she took to mothering very well. While I realize that is not always the case in breeding, I think me having everything lined up really helped. I do agree with everyone else that no matter how good of a mother your dog is, it is a lot of work. I was constantly up checking on them and Ellie making sure everything was fine and safe for them. Money is also a big factor. Although there were no emergency vet bills I had to pay for, thats not to say it couldn't have happened and I still had plenty of money lined up just in case. At the end of it all I had spent a lot of money and time and effort but it had been worth it. We kept one little girl(Lilly Anne) and the rest went to great homes where I hear from them at least once a week and am always getting pictures. I am not sure if it is something I would ever want to do again and it is certainly not something I would do for a living, but it was a great experience. You have to take the time to research and learn and prepare and make sure what is right for you and your girl. In your heart you will know whether it is the right thing to do or not.

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371830)

If you go to google (where EVERYONE starts their research these days) and type in "yorkie forum" or "yorkie breeding" or anything related, YT takes up most of the first page. So you click to come here and on the very first page of YT they tell you to sign up and start posting. That is what people are doing and they are being jumped for it. 
 
Sure, there is support for others when they have lost a dog or other health issues, or want to sell their dog clothing, etc. But heaven forbid they say the "B" word. Every single post I have read that anyone asks for any comradery, help or direction regarding breeding, they are not given it. They are bombarded with posts criticizing them for their choices. Many times, you only know a short paragraph about them and are assuming the worst. 
 
It really comes across as there are a handful of people who are breeders on here and refuse to allow anyone else on the bandwagon. They circle the horses and start throwing rocks at the newcomer. It's really off putting. 
 
Do I think everyone should breed their animals? No. Is breeding a dog more risky than a human? Absolutely not. EVERY pregnancy has the potential to end in death. For the mom and puppies. No one thinks that their dog is a superdog. You don't get to just assume that someone is dirtfloor poor and wont be smart enough to secure proper medical needs as well as have a fund for such cases. Are there people who do? Sure. But it is not fair to assume that every person does.
 
What I got from her post, was she was waning to see what costs range and what it entails. She didn't ask for everyone's snarky, judgmental posts. You can say you weren't, but that's just not the case. The good ol' boys club is strong here at YT. 
 
I also call BS on the statement of breeders only doing it to "better the breed". YES, breeders do it for money. For selling puppies, for showing and winning. For having a house full of puppies because it's fun and they love it. For a whole slew of reasons. Sure, bettering the breed is a ideal, but it is definitely NOT the sole purpose of breeding. 
 
I do have extensive knowledge in breeding. Different breeds of dogs as well as other animals. Saying I don't is judging me with zero basis. 
 
I think it is rude and disrespectful to jump on someone's post and pretty much calling them ignorant and irresponsible. Dedicating posts full of irrelevant statements that had nothing do do with what was originally asked. It's incredibly immature and frankly, gives the overall site a bad rap. 
 
Showing from the flood of inbox posts I've received, I'm clearly not the only one who thinks so. Just the only one brave enough to publicly stand up for others and point out when people are being less than supportive. 
 
It's a sad day when grown women (and men) can't be gracious with one another.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The thing is everyone has an opinion and different ways of "saying" things. Sometimes we can't get the "jist" of how someone is coming I'm off through a keyboard and it can come off rude/disrespectful when the poster(s) didn't mean it that way at all. So although I would LOVE if people would "just answer questions" from the OP without judgments or lectures...if there are any. I doubt it's going to happen. I hope if the OP for this thread is still out there. She/he is reading up on breeding. There are plenty of links in the breeders section, contact your original breeder and see if she/he would assist with any further questions and with the whelp, speak with your female's vet and get his recommendation in terms of if she could successfully whelp. I'm all about researching but I would also ask a breeder in your area if you could assist with a whelp...there's nothing like hands on learning. OP I see you're in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area I would contact breeders there. If you don't feel comfortable doing that send me a pm and I can ask my breeder(I'm in Ft. Hood) to contact u so she can answer any of your questions

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371748)

That's not really how a good breeder operates.

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4371856)

That's not really how a good breeder operates.

What you and I consider a good breeder could be and probably are a bit different.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371830)

I encourage you to get to know a few of the good breeders here, to walk around your local shelters and to read about all the sick animals who's breeder simply just didn't care there are a lots of post to chose from to read about that.reputable breeders do breed simply to better the breed but they can be hard to find but they are out there. A true reputable breeder often makes no money and just brakes even. You can choose to believe it or not but it is a fact. Most people simply don't care enough about these animals or don't see a big deal in breeding but I see these animals as living beings who feel pain and have needs. Why would you want to know breed right instead take the chance of having puppies with genetic illnesses that will suffer there whole lives which in my opinion is straight out cruelty. If you want to breed that's fine if you do it right if not then I will go round and round with you all day because I have first hand seen a dog who was confused and suffering because the breeder didn't care to do things right. I have sat in another room crying because of the pain and confusion in her eyes. I will always stand up for dogs who simply have no voice because that is who needs people to stand up for them!

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371857)

What you and I consider a good breeder could be and probably are a bit different.

A reputable breeder does not just stud out to anyone they want to make sure the female is genetically healthy, that her lines are healthy, that she follows the standard and so on. A reputable breeder does not just stick two dogs together. Also unless they are giving a female to another breeder they trust they also have spay contracts where the female has to be fixed because they don't just want anyone using there lines.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371775)

^^ That would have been a perfect answer! Maybe an author name of said books, or even a link or two. No need to be snarky. :thumbdown

You came on here calling people judgmental some of who are very respected breeders and bash a bored that many love and have found life time friends on of course people are gonna be angry and snarky!

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4371864)

A reputable breeder does not just stud out to anyone they want to make sure the female is genetically healthy, that her lines are healthy, that she follows the standard and so on. A reputable breeder does not just stick two dogs together. Also unless they are giving a female to another breeder they trust they also have spay contracts where the female has to be she was fixed because they don't just want anyone using there lines.

Hmmmm....I dont see anywhere in my posts where I stated a breeder would just "stud out". I stated the OP should contact her girl's breeder and she may know of available studs and how much it would cost. Whether or not the OP is able to get a stud she desires is on her and the stud's owner. Did the OP state her yorkie wasn't genetically healthy or didn't have the proper testing or that she was just sticking two animals together? For all I know this pup could have been in the show ring previously and is an awesome representation of the breed and has already been given the vet's go ahead to breed. I don't make assumptions.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371870)

I was referring to what you said about your breeder

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 03:01 PM

Do you have children? Did you get thorough genetic testing done prior to getting pregnant? Did you research your "lines" along with their father's to insure that there are no genetic defects in the last 12 generations? What about your children? Will you ensure that they go through all the same testing?

Yes, there is a difference, I get that, but this is becoming seriously asinine and totally of course. The OP asked a question that was ignored by most on this thread. All I did was point out that no one answered her nor were they gracious in their posts. Sorry to step on everyone's toes, but I refuse to just watch others be treated poorly.

I guess as the saying goes, "If you don't have anything *NICE* to say, don't say anything at all" does not apply to YT? Such a shame.

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4371873)

I was referring to what you said about your breeder

Oh....well I think my breeder is GREAT!!! No complaints here. You're entitled to your opinion and me mine. But I got a genetically sound, beautiful within the standard, kicka** yorkie from her and will be purchasing again.. To each their own:)

ColesMommy01

01-07-2014 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371877)

Pfft! If I let me and my husbands Cuban and Jamaican "lines" come into play we should of never had any kids lol. J/k

GigiRascal

01-07-2014 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColesMommy01 (Post 4371880)

Pfft! If I let me and my husbands Cuban and Jamaican "lines" come into play we should of never had any kids lol. J/k

:thumbup:

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371877)

If any posts are against the rules a moderator will take care of it and I don't see moderator under your user name. Dogs and humans are different and if you know you have serious medical defects in your family you do get special testing done. The question absolutely can not be answered simply because no reputable breeder will stud to her period. No one was treated poorly.

Yorkiemom1

01-07-2014 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371877)

Hitler tried to do selective breeding in humans years ago....was frowned upon. Difference???? To say the least......comparing selective breeding in humans to genetic quality controll in pure bred animals, is ludicrous and clearly shows why people that do not understand the goals of breeding programs or the responsibility ethical, accountable breeders have in order to keep the genetic pool of each breed as healthy as humanly possible, should not be involved in breeding........ or even expected to shed accurate, valuable, trusted insight on why it is critical and necessary that soooooooo many dedicated people spend thousands of hours in education and hundreds of thousands of dollars on genetic research in our purebred animals.

ladyjane

01-07-2014 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371739)

My point was that not a single person actually answered her questions. She didn't ask if everyone thought she should do it. She asked for specific things: "how to pursue a good stud, reasonable fees, correct protocols and care?".

I also never said that "breeding is fluff". I simply pointed out that if someone truly wanted the questions answered that she asked, she'd get more answers asking vets rather than on a public forum because everyone just jumps in with "don't do it" (as many posted above). I said to "Stick to the "fluff" posts about clothing and potty training." because THOSE are fluff, not breeding.

I've read tons and tons of these posts where someone asks a question about breeding and everyone jumps on them. I didn't say everyone was rude, just that no one is actually going to answer the questions. They never do. She IS doing her research. She came to a place where, it is assumed, that people who *are* knowledgeable about the breed would be able to help point newcomers in the right direction.

We all know that if someone wants to breed their dog, they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says. So wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial for everyone if the "DON'T DO IT" posts were not so judgmental?

Offer the actual answers to the questions. Sure, don't withhold the very real possibility of a bad outcome, just like ANY pregnancy/birth. 24hrs later and not a single person, who would actually know the answers (or an estimate) has given it.

I've been a member here for a while and made it a priority to read as much as I could before posting (everything my "newbie" membership allows). Not jumping in naive to the community or asking things that have been asked a million times, and the very real trend, is that if you want to breed, do not mention it here. Newbies in the field are clearly not wanted. It is assumed that anyone who hasn't been doing it for years is incapable of doing so. "You" claim that the breed standards are ruined and too many in shelters, yet the very real help that could be given to avoid those things is not given. There is a deep line in the sand when it comes to breeding and it's really a shame. People come here for the "community" but there isn't a warm and fuzzy atmosphere. It's very sad.

Once in a while, someone actually listens. People don't post because they assume the person will not listen...they are genuinely trying to help educate a person. Yes, it is true that many will not listen, but that is NO EXCUSE for not letting them know the hazards. That is not being judgemental at all.

Yes, the very real help IS given...people are advising inexperienced people not to breed and to alter their pups. THAT IS THE BEST ADVICE TO GIVE. The yorkie breed is being destroyed...I see it personally all day long. It is tragic.

ladyjane

01-07-2014 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4371606)

Sorry to hear it's been so difficult and challenging for you here at YT. I don't know if something happened to you personally or not. But either way, if you truly take a good look around - there is *always* more positive than negative; it's just that when we see/experience something negative it tends to be what stands WAY out in our minds. The positive always outweighs the negative here.

This is a passionate board/forum/community and I think that's one of its strengths - and yes, it can sometimes be a weakness as well. When passion goes off track, it usually turns into anger and that gets us nowhere in sensitive threads, to be sure. We do encourage and allow all points of view, but it is true that there are some subjects on which most of the board is in agreement. One of those subjects is indiscriminate breeding - the majority of members here feel that indiscriminate breeding often results in less-than-standard yorkies, tragedy for the Mom/puppies/owners, dilutes the breed, hurts the breed, overpopulates the breed, and lends to the problem we currently have in shelters and rescues. So, there *are* legitimate and important reasons behind the passion regarding this particular subject.

Anyway, I do genuinely welcome you to YT and hope that you stick around and get to know some of us - there are some incredibly wonderful people here, and I'm sure you fit that description as well :).

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

ladyjane

01-07-2014 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4371642)

The ONLY question you should be asking yourself prior to breeding your "precious" little female...."Do I want a litter of puppies from this female so desperately I am willing to sacrifice her life to get it." Her life is on the chopping block everytime you choose to breed a female. Unless you have a wonderful example of what a Yorkie is supposed to be, a fine example of the breed standard, unless you are COMPETENT in ALL aspects of breeding and whelping and emergent care of orphaned puppies, unless you will be at the very least, maintaining the breed standard with producing this litter, unlessw you have done the genetic testing of both dam and sire and are confident thru testing each dog is free from genetic diseases that you would be responsible for inflicting on a litter of puppies (plus the massive heartache and expense you will be passing along to eager, unsuspecting, unprepared new owners), unless you are confident in your thorough knowledge of both dog's pedigrees going back at least 12 generations......you don't need to even be considering doing this. Breeding is a crap shoot under all circumstances and should never be entered into without extensive knowledge in order to get it right....that is the very least you can do for the babies produced, the female that has NO voice in the breeding and depends entirely on YOU to keep her and her babies safe, and the people that buy these babies from you.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

ladyjane

01-07-2014 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371877)

Does not seem like you have much nice to say about the YT community. I can understand that you feel people should do things your way, but I believe you mentioned that an online forum is always going to have different opinions. It is a shame that you don't realize that a lot of learning can take place due to those different opinions.

Wylie's Mom

01-07-2014 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GigiRascal (Post 4371877)

I've read this entire thread and at no point do I see the OP being "treated poorly". Rather, her post has solicited plenty of helpful opinions, real experience, and pertinent links to what can happen when inexperienced folks try breeding. How is that being treated poorly?

When someone posts here asking questions, it does not mean that only those in support of her actions are allowed to post. ANYONE is welcome to post in relation to the subject matter, which in this case is breeding.

Informative opinions aren't always going to be viewed as "nice" to hear. But that's not the point to a forum or realistic in a real, genuine community. "Nice" is a subjective viewpoint that is different for everyone. Personally, I think it's quite nice that the OP is receiving some pertinent and real-life opinions. That, to me, is not only nice, but way beyond the importance of being nice.

Her girl could *die* from pregnancy. That's important. And it's important for her to know why.

I appreciate your efforts to help the OP and I encourage you to continue to do so. But please allow others the same courtesy that is being extended to you, that's all we ask.

Lovetodream88

01-07-2014 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4371958)

:thumbup: thank you Ann

dollydoodle

01-07-2014 06:08 PM

The OP entered her first post yesterday at 11:51AM & 15 minutes later signed off & never came on again. She didn't even wait for the first response. I think we need to get over it!

Patti

01-07-2014 06:09 PM

In my opinion anyone thinking of breeding should spend a few weeks volunteering at a shelter and see first hand the horrible overpopulation of dogs in this country. Then they can decide if they want to be a part of the problem or the solution. I have had yorkies for 44 years and have seen first hand how the breed is being ruined. There are so many yorkies that are so far off the standard it's difficult to find a bred to standard yorkie, much less one with no health problems.

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