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-   -   giving him up (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/258892-giving-him-up.html)

DBlain 02-21-2013 08:10 AM

I don't have any advice other than knowing that it is s much harder to train a dog when the bad behavior happens when you are not there.

The natural tendency on YT is to get upset with a person states they are thinking about rehoming a dog and I don't always understand why. IMO sometimes the best and most unselfish thing an owner can do is to rehome a dog. What if this dog went to live in a house with a fenced in yard, what if the new owner was retired, a stay at home mom, or someone like me that works from home. What if the dog had more company, what if neighbors could not hear the dog barking through the apartment walls, or what if the dog was not penned up to protect itself and the present owners property. Lot's of what ifs, but to me sometimes a better option.

My friend just did that with a second yorkie that she had tried to work with for a year, part of it, actually most of it was her fault because she was single and her work and lifestyle schedule did not make it easy to devote the time and effort she needed to put into training the dog. The dog is now an only dog, getting 5x the attention it was before and living in the home of an older couple where the woman works from home. So rehoming in many instances can be a better option than figuring out ways to sequester the dog from not chewing everything and barking non stop.

good luck with whatever you decide to do

yorkietalkjilly 02-21-2013 08:30 AM

I agree with Donna that I'd rather see a dog have a chance at a better situation if that can be worked out than to stay where the dog is supremely unhappy and acting out, frustrating and driving the owner to distraction as they don't have the skills to correct the behavior or cannot find a good behavorist who can teach them how. People don't stay with others they can't live well with many times but some think a dog must stay with a given owner forever. That is an ideal situation if the owner and dog are a team and work well together and both have their needs mostly met. If that is not the case and an animal is stressed and unhappy and the owner can't cope with its issues, it can be a kindness to try to find the dog a home with an owner who would love such a challenge. Some would give anything if they could work with a dog like this. There are still many people who so enjoy changing a dog's life from stressed and acting out, dealing with a lot of unhappy reactions from people displeased with them to that of a calm, loving, happy, well-behaved and healthy companion. But few are cut out for that type of commitment, have to work long hours, have other, time-consuming and heavy responsibilities or just don't have the personality or interest in that type activity. And that's fine. Not everyone is alike or cut out to rehab troubled or misbehaving dogs. I'm hoping if the owner cannot find a way to rehab this baby so that its needs are met that another home with someone with dog skills can be found in time.

DBlain 02-21-2013 09:01 AM

Jeanie always explains things so well, I love the way she verbalized a lot of my thoughts much better in her post. I was thinking about this if I had to re home a dog I would be afraid to post it on YT. It's not just here but in most dog groups, you are made to feel shame if you decide to rehome a dog. Now often one goes about it in a sort of underground like method. My friend for instance was so afraid for others to find out that I think she limited her opportunities in finding the best home for the dog. She got lucky because by chance started talking to someone in the pet store and it worked out, but she was spending months looking because she did not want to do it here and when she talked about it in our Motor City group or on FB everyone just gave her tips on how to deal with the dog. I know everyone means well and perhaps something can be worked out in this situation, but like Jeanie said not every dog is suited for every owner, to me it is better to move on than to make both the dog and the owner miserable.

tom_kkh 02-21-2013 06:21 PM

Mocca is very well behave though.

I never leash him when we go for walks and he never wonder away from me for more than 5-8 meters. Even if he did, a simple call, he will dash back to me.

He obeys instructions like sit, stay, down, no, and even drinks water when i asked him to do so, etc immediately.

so how can a trainer "train" him in the aspect of destructive chewing?

anyone can enlighten wht the trainer will "teach" as I do not wish to spend money on a trainer and he is training mocca on things mocca already "knows".

rehoming is not an option now. we very much wants him to sleep between me and my wife till he pass on. but somethings the stress is really overwhelming.

We love him dearly when he is not destructive.... lol

For a start, I am not letting him follow me everywhere in the house. i will ask him to stay when i go elsewhere to get my drinks or stuff, hopefully this helps in assuring him that we will always comes back to him if it is separation anxiety he is facing.

the technque works well with our westie previously.

dottiesyrky 02-21-2013 06:50 PM

Tom
 
I agree with the three posters before you, not every home and pet are compatible. The dog could be happier in a different situation where all are better suited. Tom seems to be very tolerant and had done a lot to try and improve his dog's behavior. I feel his pain and frustration and pray the dog will improve so he can keep the dog. If not let's hope the right home can be found.
Sometimes posters here can be very critical and I respect those with problems who dare to ask for help and are criticized. Good luck Tom, I do admire your persistence and obvious wish to do your very best for the dog you love. There are lots of helpful comments here and hope they help you. Just try and take the good and kind posts and ignore the others! :-)

MauiGirl 02-21-2013 07:12 PM

I am so sorry for the frustration this chewing is causing, and I really respect you for reaching out for help in finding a solution.

You sound like a very caring dog owner, and I think you have received some good advice. I don't have any specific advice to add, but wish you well in training your pup.

Only one of my dogs was a chewer, and mostly it was furniture, chair & desk legs. I sprayed the areas with "bitter apple" spray to deter her, and she eventually grew out of the habit around age 2.

gracielove 02-22-2013 04:38 AM

Can you confine the dogs to just one room? Sometimes it is easier to dog proof one room than a whole apartment. They won't feel confined but they will only have things that are safe in that one room.

Some dogs need more interaction than others. It could be your Yorkie needs more exercise and mental stimulation than the Westie. Yorkies are small but they are full of energy. Taking him for a walk in the morning before you leave and a good brisk walk when you get home may help get rid of some of his excess energy issues.

My girl was a destructive chewer even though I was home with her. She would go hunting for things to chew up and steal things out of closets, off of tables, and even out of my purse. I started getting her 12" bully sticks to chew and it really helped to resolve the issue. Separation anxiety can bring on chewing issues so consider getting something safe to chew for him. He could really hurt himself on an electrical cord. Stuffed toys are for playing with and do not satisfy the urge to chew.

BiewerYorkie 02-22-2013 08:03 AM

Having dogs in an apartment is always difficult. Of my 6, only 2 aren't barkers. My Japanese Chins are great apartment dogs. Some, like my Yoshi don't bark at all. In the nearly 3 years we have had her, she has barked TWO times. Yumble only barks at feeding time and while playing.

I hope you can work everything out.

Louise and Zachary

yorkietalkjilly 02-22-2013 07:11 PM

What a good dog trainer will do
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom_kkh (Post 4142988)
Mocca is very well behave though.

I never leash him when we go for walks and he never wonder away from me for more than 5-8 meters. Even if he did, a simple call, he will dash back to me.

He obeys instructions like sit, stay, down, no, and even drinks water when i asked him to do so, etc immediately.

so how can a trainer "train" him in the aspect of destructive chewing?

anyone can enlighten wht the trainer will "teach" as I do not wish to spend money on a trainer and he is training mocca on things mocca already "knows".

rehoming is not an option now. we very much wants him to sleep between me and my wife till he pass on. but somethings the stress is really overwhelming.

We love him dearly when he is not destructive.... lol

For a start, I am not letting him follow me everywhere in the house. i will ask him to stay when i go elsewhere to get my drinks or stuff, hopefully this helps in assuring him that we will always comes back to him if it is separation anxiety he is facing.

the technque works well with our westie previously.

Your dog is likely barking all day when he was crated because he had separation anxiety and is bored silly. He likely chews and bites everything in your house because he has pent up energy and is nervous, anxious, doesn't know what to do with himself.

A trainer - a good trainer/dog behaviorist - will not train the dog much at all. He will assess the living situation of the dog and likely train you how to make this active, smart dog's day richer and fuller of the things he needs so that he is calmer and far less bored. Most happy and well-adjusted dogs of owners that work sleep while they are gone and don't destroy things because they have come to learn and accept that sleeping while the owner is away and conserving energy for the evening when the owner gets home and the fun begins. A trainer will teach you how to teach your dog Separation Anxiety training so your dog won't bark all day in the crate. If you give your dog a rich life, spend part of every day working with it going through its obedience tricks and teach it new tricks every so often, give it some time at a little home agility course you have set up - even if it is only 5 little minutes - with lots of clapping, shouting and rewards while he's running his course, take him out for an enriching walk during which time he's got the time to sniff and smell and enjoy his world, pee/potty and walk hard, then back home for water and a nap. When he wakes, spend time with him cuddled in your lap, stroking, brushing his coat, brush teeth, etc., give him a little snack in an interactive puzzle and then bedtime. Mornings are a short little walk or let him out back to do his pee/potty, follow you around as you talk some to him while dressing, leave him in his crate with several kongs filled with his food so that he has to work to get his breakfast out of each of them. I use small kong and several and an interactive food bowl that Tibbe works to get food from and it can take 30 - 60 mins. to get his food. Then, a satisfied dog from a prior happy, rich evening with his person the night before, will usually settle down to sleep most of the time and wait for his person to come home, whereupon he can look forward to the activities I described above. Maybe start with a bunch of kongs filled with his dinner while you are eating and he's busy working to get his food. Some evenings if it's pretty out, you can leave off the obedience/agility and take a double/triple walk. Others, go to the park. If it's raining, teach a new trick, go through the obedience and play a rough game of chase or tugowar with the dog. Wear him out playing, then a puzzle tray filled with some kibble for a snack so that he has to work hard to get to the kibble. Let him out to play, chase him a bit around the yard and then in for some cuddle time as you relax. Bedtime and start all over. Weekends you can take him for car rides, to the pet store, long walks, rough tugowar and chases, put up his little agility course out in the yard and run him through it with lots of enthusiasm. A reward of whatever safe chew toys you let him have. I use 20 oz. Diet Coke bottle in an old sock - my Tibbe like to chew that. He has toys that he has to work to get them to come apart, get pieces out that each sqeak, etc. He gets baths and nails done on the weekend. If I clean out the closet or the clean the living room, he's in the room with me "helping", watching, interacting with what I'm doing. Then outside to chase squirrels and birds and play through the fence with the neighbor's dog. Then cuddle on the couch watching TV, getting tummy scratches and hours of stroking, little play sessions on the couch. Bedtime cuddled together.

Get the picture? A dog's life must be meaningful, must connect with his human, must include active learning and working to achieve something that can make him feel proud and smart, keep him very active and engaged - a rich life - a happy life. Tibbe isn't destructive - he's too tired and respects me, sees the things in our home as mine. When he was young and started to pick up something he shouldn't I taught him the "Leave It!" command and he began to learn that things that were not his toys were "Leave It!" items and not to be touched. He learned to sleep while I was away, to rest up because when I'm here, we're busy living with each other and doing things together.

A good trainer will assess your dog's life and teach you ways to live with your dog that will enrich his life, keep him active, work his muscles and pleasantly tire him out and teach you how to be a leader he respects and wouldn't think of destroying your things. He will teach you how to reshape your dog into the pet you desire and all the while keeping it fun and interesting and positively rewarding for him. He'll delight in his new life and stop being so destructive because he'll mostly sleep/guard the house while you are gone and be calm, non-anxious and won't need to find busywork for his teeth anymore or bark all day. If you just get a trainer that teaches the dog to sit, lie down and rollover, he's not worth his hire. A trainer will teach you how to deal with desensitizing to separation in a gradual process. I could even give you a training technique for that that will teach your dog not to bark while crated when alone. Your dog needs a reshaping of his life with you, your attitude needs to change some so that you respect what your animal truly needs and then you both can co-exist happily. If you are not willing to put that much into a dog, then do rehome him and get an older, less active dog than a terrier - perhaps an older Bassett hound or older greyhound - they are couch potatoes usually.

And please, walk your dog only on a leash. One day he could see a cat and take off or another dog could approach and challenge him and he could rush forward into a dogfight.

Good luck with your dog. I hope you can work things out so that you can keep him or find a less active breed.

tom_kkh 02-25-2013 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4144078)
Your dog is likely barking all day when he was crated because he had separation anxiety and is bored silly. He likely chews and bites everything in your house because he has pent up energy and is nervous, anxious, doesn't know what to do with himself.

A trainer - a good trainer/dog behaviorist - will not train the dog much at all. He will assess the living situation of the dog and likely train you how to make this active, smart dog's day richer and fuller of the things he needs so that he is calmer and far less bored. Most happy and well-adjusted dogs of owners that work sleep while they are gone and don't destroy things because they have come to learn and accept that sleeping while the owner is away and conserving energy for the evening when the owner gets home and the fun begins. A trainer will teach you how to teach your dog Separation Anxiety training so your dog won't bark all day in the crate. If you give your dog a rich life, spend part of every day working with it going through its obedience tricks and teach it new tricks every so often, give it some time at a little home agility course you have set up - even if it is only 5 little minutes - with lots of clapping, shouting and rewards while he's running his course, take him out for an enriching walk during which time he's got the time to sniff and smell and enjoy his world, pee/potty and walk hard, then back home for water and a nap. When he wakes, spend time with him cuddled in your lap, stroking, brushing his coat, brush teeth, etc., give him a little snack in an interactive puzzle and then bedtime. Mornings are a short little walk or let him out back to do his pee/potty, follow you around as you talk some to him while dressing, leave him in his crate with several kongs filled with his food so that he has to work to get his breakfast out of each of them. I use small kong and several and an interactive food bowl that Tibbe works to get food from and it can take 30 - 60 mins. to get his food. Then, a satisfied dog from a prior happy, rich evening with his person the night before, will usually settle down to sleep most of the time and wait for his person to come home, whereupon he can look forward to the activities I described above. Maybe start with a bunch of kongs filled with his dinner while you are eating and he's busy working to get his food. Some evenings if it's pretty out, you can leave off the obedience/agility and take a double/triple walk. Others, go to the park. If it's raining, teach a new trick, go through the obedience and play a rough game of chase or tugowar with the dog. Wear him out playing, then a puzzle tray filled with some kibble for a snack so that he has to work hard to get to the kibble. Let him out to play, chase him a bit around the yard and then in for some cuddle time as you relax. Bedtime and start all over. Weekends you can take him for car rides, to the pet store, long walks, rough tugowar and chases, put up his little agility course out in the yard and run him through it with lots of enthusiasm. A reward of whatever safe chew toys you let him have. I use 20 oz. Diet Coke bottle in an old sock - my Tibbe like to chew that. He has toys that he has to work to get them to come apart, get pieces out that each sqeak, etc. He gets baths and nails done on the weekend. If I clean out the closet or the clean the living room, he's in the room with me "helping", watching, interacting with what I'm doing. Then outside to chase squirrels and birds and play through the fence with the neighbor's dog. Then cuddle on the couch watching TV, getting tummy scratches and hours of stroking, little play sessions on the couch. Bedtime cuddled together.

Get the picture? A dog's life must be meaningful, must connect with his human, must include active learning and working to achieve something that can make him feel proud and smart, keep him very active and engaged - a rich life - a happy life. Tibbe isn't destructive - he's too tired and respects me, sees the things in our home as mine. When he was young and started to pick up something he shouldn't I taught him the "Leave It!" command and he began to learn that things that were not his toys were "Leave It!" items and not to be touched. He learned to sleep while I was away, to rest up because when I'm here, we're busy living with each other and doing things together.

A good trainer will assess your dog's life and teach you ways to live with your dog that will enrich his life, keep him active, work his muscles and pleasantly tire him out and teach you how to be a leader he respects and wouldn't think of destroying your things. He will teach you how to reshape your dog into the pet you desire and all the while keeping it fun and interesting and positively rewarding for him. He'll delight in his new life and stop being so destructive because he'll mostly sleep/guard the house while you are gone and be calm, non-anxious and won't need to find busywork for his teeth anymore or bark all day. If you just get a trainer that teaches the dog to sit, lie down and rollover, he's not worth his hire. A trainer will teach you how to deal with desensitizing to separation in a gradual process. I could even give you a training technique for that that will teach your dog not to bark while crated when alone. Your dog needs a reshaping of his life with you, your attitude needs to change some so that you respect what your animal truly needs and then you both can co-exist happily. If you are not willing to put that much into a dog, then do rehome him and get an older, less active dog than a terrier - perhaps an older Bassett hound or older greyhound - they are couch potatoes usually.

And please, walk your dog only on a leash. One day he could see a cat and take off or another dog could approach and challenge him and he could rush forward into a dogfight.

Good luck with your dog. I hope you can work things out so that you can keep him or find a less active breed.

great write up, thanks :D

Vet say nothing wrong with Mocca gums or teeth. Mainly behavioral issues.

will source for trainer and update.

MidnightUnicorn 02-25-2013 08:25 PM

I agree with Yorkietalkjilly.

yorkietalkjilly 02-25-2013 10:41 PM

You are welcome. Good luck to you and your sweet dog. Here is a technique for helping your dog come to accept your being gone and not bark.

I have used the below technique to train anxious and barking dogs how to accept being left alone without misbehaving or becoming destructive. It is long, wordy and the copy/paste from my Word program can cause some of the words to run together but you might read it over and see if it might work for your girl. It was originally posted about an adult, male dog with female owner. When enough time and repetition is used to teach this method, it has worked every time to desensitize the dog to the concept of being left alone and they learn to relax and accept this fact of their lives. But it takes a lot of dedication and repetition by the owner, working faithfully with the dog. I hope it can help your sweet dog feel less anxious when you leave her/him home alone.

Separation Anxiety

Most anxious dogs that aren't used to it get nervous and anxious when their owners leave the home. Firstly, take all emotion out of your leaving. Do not feel sad for him or tell him goodbye - just like pack leaders in the wild don't when they decide to go on a hunt or take a walk - they just walk away and nobody freaks. They are impersonal and matter-of-fact in how and what they must do. So no emotional goodbyes or hello's when arriving home. Act like a packleader. Your dog is a pack animal and is genetically in tune with a firm but fair leader. As far as your actual leaving, just slowly desensitize him to your leaving and soon he will come to accept it. But you must desensitize him to it slowly and allow him to adjust to each step. Be patient with that baby -his anxiety can be overcome with time and patience and knowing what to do. Keep your training sessions short and impersonal, matter-of-fact. (You can reward him once each exercise is over with a big, loving play session and lots of loving hugs, kisses.)

Give him a lovely food-stuffed kong toy, sit down and watch him playing with it, take up your keys and purse and whatever else you do as if to leave home and sit back down and just watch him. Don't go anywhere. Just sit there. Now this is key: keep repeating this for a day or two on a weekend over and over,giving him different things to chew on or play with as you get ready to go but don't.

After a day or two of this, when he's playing with his kong and has accepted your getting your things together, get your keys/purse, watch him for a while then get up and without saying one word to him or looking in his direction, just like an alpha wolf who acts in its pack without question from one of his pack members, walk out of your door outside. Shut it. Stand there 10 seconds and walk back in, DO NOT NOTICE HIM AT ALL, no matter how he's dancing around your feet or whining in joy, put your things away and sit back down where you usually sit when you watch him with his kong toy. Repeat this over & over and keep increasing your times outside to let him learn slowly that though momma goes out the door, she will be back and I'm really okay. Slowly but surely as you stay out longer and longer but do come back in, he'll have grown to accept this action as inconsequential in his life and soon grow to accept your leaving without thinking a thing of it -he'llknow he gets a good thing to play with and some good food, momma will be back and he'll accept it. B4 long, he will just accept your leaving without any toys or kongs or anything. After a while, include getting in the car in this training exercise, even starting it up and getting right back out and coming in the house without noticing him. Repeat repeat repeat - sitting in the car a while with it running. Eventually, drive around the block and then back home,inside, not noticing your dog and putting your things away, coming to sit in the same place on the couch where you always sit during this training. Once you have sat there a while after each training session, now it is time to play and reward that anxious baby who is learning to be a goooood dog so now have a blast with him. Lots of love, hugs, kisses, tugowar, etc. Happy, happy rewards for his efforts are definitely in order!

If you are patient enough to do this, it works EVERY SINGLE time and turns an anxious, crying dog into one that accepts leaving as just a part of his day.They soon learn to adjust their day to sleep while we are away and be ready to go when we get home.

I would also start him on a good positive-rewards training program such as in Tamar Geller's The Loved Dog book. This will teach him to bond well with you as you develop a strong relationship that he will not question, no matter what as he knows momma is always gonna keep it fun, loving and always rewarding for him.

tom_kkh 02-25-2013 11:14 PM

Will try the techniques this weekend. Thx again.

I posted mocca playtime at rhe video section. Do watch and hope all u guys like it.

Yorkiemom1 02-27-2013 10:39 AM

:thumbup::thumbup:[QUOTE=yorkietalkjilly;4146899]You are welcome. Good luck to you and your sweet dog. Here is a technique for helping your dog come to accept your being gone and not bark.

Separation Anxiety

Most anxious dogs that aren't used to it get nervous and anxious when their owners leave the home. Firstly, take all emotion out of your leaving. Do not feel sad for him or tell him goodbye - just like pack leaders in the wild don't when they decide to go on a hunt or take a walk - they just walk away and nobody freaks. They are impersonal and matter-of-fact in how and what they must do. So no emotional goodbyes or hello's when arriving home. Act like a packleader. Your dog is a pack animal and is genetically in tune with a firm but fair leader. As far as your actual leaving, just slowly desensitize him to your leaving and soon he will come to accept it. But you must desensitize him to it slowly and allow him to adjust to each step. Be patient with that baby -his anxiety can be overcome with time and patience and knowing what to do. Keep your training sessions short and impersonal, matter-of-fact. (You can reward him once each exercise is over with a big, loving play session and lots of loving hugs, kisses.)

Give him a lovely food-stuffed kong toy, sit down and watch him playing with it, take up your keys and purse and whatever else you do as if to leave home and sit back down and just watch him. Don't go anywhere. Just sit there. Now this is key: keep repeating this for a day or two on a weekend over and over,giving him different things to chew on or play with as you get ready to go but don't.

After a day or two of this, when he's playing with his kong and has accepted your getting your things together, get your keys/purse, watch him for a while then get up and without saying one word to him or looking in his direction, just like an alpha wolf who acts in its pack without question from one of his pack members, walk out of your door outside. Shut it. Stand there 10 seconds and walk back in, DO NOT NOTICE HIM AT ALL, no matter how he's dancing around your feet or whining in joy, put your things away and sit back down where you usually sit when you watch him with his kong toy. Repeat this over & over and keep increasing your times outside to let him learn slowly that though momma goes out the door, she will be back and I'm really okay. Slowly but surely as you stay out longer and longer but do come back in, he'll have grown to accept this action as inconsequential in his life and soon grow to accept your leaving without thinking a thing of it -he'llknow he gets a good thing to play with and some good food, momma will be back and he'll accept it. B4 long, he will just accept your leaving without any toys or kongs or anything. After a while, include getting in the car in this training exercise, even starting it up and getting right back out and coming in the house without noticing him. Repeat repeat repeat - sitting in the car a while with it running. Eventually, drive around the block and then back home,inside, not noticing your dog and putting your things away, coming to sit in the same place on the couch where you always sit during this training. Once you have sat there a while after each training session, now it is time to play and reward that anxious baby who is learning to be a goooood dog so now have a blast with him. Lots of love, hugs, kisses, tugowar, etc. Happy, happy rewards for his efforts are definitely in order!

If you are patient enough to do this, it works EVERY SINGLE time and turns an anxious, crying dog into one that accepts leaving as just a part of his day.They soon learn to adjust their day to sleep while we are away and be ready to go when we get home.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I too can personally vouch for this technique! It really does work....takes an enormous amount of patience, but the reward of a happy, adjusted, acceptable pup is priceless!

yorkiecrazy 02-27-2013 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlenemaria (Post 4141297)
Good thing it's not a human baby...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Agreed!


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