Confession Good for the Soul :)
 

Ok it seems like lately we have had lots of "issues" between us all with people who got their pups to young, who thought or were thinking about breeding, etc. I CONFESS, not knowing any better as I am OLD lol, We got Laddy from a puppy mill at barely 9 weeks old. Would I do it again now that I have found YT and no better NO. We got Kyra at 12 weeks old. Yes when I got Laddy I wanted to breed, after finding YT I learned better (thank God). I had mixed pups as a kid growing up and so did my children, along with their full breed poms. I personally love all dogs. I am thankful for YT and all it has taught me. So the point in this thread is to say, if in my past posts I have seemed judgemental of others over any of these issues, please forgive me. I like lots here have learned so much and I love this site, I hope that new people coming here can learn and grow to love it to and learn to grow a thick skin at times because sometimes we all say things as lovers of our yorkies that may of hurt feelings but we didn't mean it to at all. I got a private message from someone who was hurt and I tried to explain all this to them, so I wanted to say openly that if I have offended anyone, I am sorry. God bless you all.

I got my pup at 6 weeks....
and then posted on YT as a newbie...so you know I received a warm welcome :p

YT can most definately be a hostile environment to those that do get their puppies young.

Unlike the OP, I would definately get a pup that young again if possible. I know I go against the philosophy here, but I don't see the difference in coming home from the hospital with a newborn human to care for that's 24 hours old, and coming home with a young puppy. I'm equally capable of caring for both.

I feel the same way, I hope my posts don't sound so judgmental and bossy, but after having gone through the experience of owning a really sickly dog and watching it deteriorate and there was nothing I could do for him. The vet looked at me with a tear in his eye and said, “damn backyard breeders", that moment changed my life. I was thrilled to find Yorkietalk and learn how to avoid lousy breeders. I’m thrilled, I have found a breeder who breeds for the betterment of the breed. Some people think it’s because we just want some beautiful dog, but for me, it was health reasons, and I believe you increase your chances of getting a healthy dog if you go to a great breeder. Anyway, I understand where you’re coming from and I think all dogs are equal, but I don’t believe all breeders are equal.

Oh, Charlene, don't feel too bad as we've all been there in some form or fashion on some subject or the other. And when I see posts from newbies and I'm still pretty new myself, I just know most of us post from what we know at the time to the best of our ability and even if we are dead wrong and we hang around, we will learn and grow and hopefully pass along what we learn. I know a lot of people cut me and newbies a lot of slack for that very reason and try to be gentle with us!

I couldn't disagree with you more.

The problem is no good breeder will give you a pup that young because they know it is wrong and not good for the pup. All breeders willing to give there pups up that young cut corners and don't do the things they should so you could very well end up with a sick pup. It makes me sad they you wouldn't want to do what is best for the pup.

I got both of mine younger than 12 weeks and I didnt get a warm reception either. I try to keep in mind these are inexperienced dog owners just learning as they go along. I dont know if I agree with the 12 week rule as far as socialization but I whole heartedly agree with it as far as a new owner maybe not having to deal with a pup with hypoglycemia problems or not eating or maybe having a young pup with diahrea and vomiting and not knowing how to deal with it properly so it dies. With the one from today I shed teears it was just so tragically unfair to the new owner. It doesnt hurt the breeder at all to keep them a little longer and not unload heartache on new owners. I know I must come accross brash at times I try not to but Im a passionate person. I try to put myself in the shoes of the new people and new dog owners though and see it from there eyes

You know I have kicked myself over Laddy several times because, although I wouldn't trade him for the world, we have had some issues with separation anxiety, allegies etc. and we did have Poms before from a great breeder who kept them until 12 weeks but it had been years and it just never entered my head until I found YT why its best. This is where I learned about puppy mills to. I guess I just had my head in the sand and never knew about them before. When we got Laddy the conditions were deplorable and I just wanted him out of there. I just hope that for others who are just finding this forum you stick around long enough to realize that there are really an awesome bunch of Yorkie lovers and human beings who care here. God bless.

I went to the breder to pick sammi at 9 weeks old and fell instantly in love with the smallest of the litter, i brought him home at 12 weeks

Out of the 11 Yorkies that I have had, all but them 3 of them were Rescues I adopted.
My very first Yorkie (Spencer) was an impulse buy from a Pet Store in 1988. After I purchased I learned about puppymills. When he passed away at the age of 8, I was so distraught.
My hubby when he came on leave went and bought my Heart Girl, Lizzie for me. She came from a Flea Market, was 9 weeks old. I wish he would let me know he was going to get one. BUT I have to say she was very, very healthy. I lost her last year at the age of 15.
My one I bought from a Breeder, I waited 2 yrs for her, from teh breeder. She was 12 weeks old when I brought her home.

Never once have I ever considered being a breeder, as I know all that goes into it.
I am also a retired Vet Tech and saw many things that can go wrong with breeding.

Because of what I have learned on YT, I do not go into pet stores, look at Craigslist, eBay, or flea markets. I got Allie from a backyard breeder, and she sufferers from horrible allergies. I love her to death but sometimes she is just miserable!. She doesn't have the best temperament, a little snippy and barks a lot!. I remember going to visit her, and when we rang the doorbell, wow were the others loud and standoffish. Never thought anything of it. Only thoughts were wow I could pay this lady 100.00 every couple of weeks and I could have an adorable puppy that I've always wanted. I think people are defensive when they feel guilty about something or do not like the truth. If I EVER add to my yorkie family I will definitely buy the breeder first then the puppy. Well learned advice from you guys!!

Charlene-

I think this was a great subject to post...and especially for newbies to read. I am very grateful for each piece of advice/opinion I read on Yorkie Talk. It took me a bit I will admit to start posting as I was afraid of getting "crucified" for doing the "wrong" thing with my yorkies. I have learned as a newbie don't take things personally and have a thicker skin...why??? YT is a passionate bunch of yorkie lovers. There are numerous years of experience with yorkies on here. Can you imagine if we all posted our years of experience and added it up how many years that would total????? Many have either made the same mistakes, been through the same experience and/or have researched subjects more thoroughly than I can even imagine. If they can prevent a yorkie going through a negative experience, stop bad practices etc, they are going to do their best to stop it/help in any way they can. Sometimes that's telling it how they see it in a very straight foward manner that my Minnesota nice says hey that didn't sound so nice...but im learning...its for the dogs and that's what counts!! So my confession...my first yorkie came from a backyard breeder...I bought her on line ,I never saw her parents, I didn't see where she lived as the breeder met me half way in a store parking lot and she was just around 8 weeks old and I fed low end food....ughhhhhh...could I have done one more thing wrong???? You would have thought I would have learned with Ruby-Sioux in that I so tried to let the breeder let me have her earlier than later....thank goodness she said no and explained why!

I can't go in to details cuz I am especially melancholy today about it...but Mini was my bought too early, spent too much, petshop puppy....owning her has given me great joy but continues to cost me a lot of money because of her never ending born in puppy mill, brokered by Hunte, sold to a pet shop issues etc...

I continue to work with a group and some lawmakers who are serious about stopping this atrocity in my area. I picket the store, I spread the word, over and over and over and over again...here and in the real world...I can't look at Mini and not continue to do so. What amazes me is how much I still learn here every day and I just take it and add it to my knowledge base...I am so glad to have the opportunity to help, if I can, and if I do makes it all worth repeating a million times more...redundant...I KNOW...but necessary!

This is a subject that is a quite the topic on YT. There are people who didn't know any better and bought a furbaby too young, we shouldn't judge them because of the fact that they did NOT know any better. I know sometimes in the heat of the moment we can get a little mean because of how much we love the breed but we should all stop and remember when we were just as naive. All we can do is give them advice and hope they learn their lesson, now if a person purposefully bought a really young puppy, knowing full well the danger, that is when we can judge them and be angry.

I bought Henri when he was 9 weeks old. I didn't know before I got him that puppies should be at least 12 weeks old before leaving their mother, I did research Yorkies and knew all about how to care for them but no where in my search did I see information about how old the puppy should be before going to it's new home. After seeing on YT the error I made I learned from it, but also I was afraid to post on here when I got my furbaby because of the backlash. I got lucky, I ended up with a healthy and happy puppy that grew up into a beautiful and healthy standard Yorkie. I realize how lucky I was though that I had no problems with Henri, so many things could have gone wrong. I don't regret getting Henri when I did, but next time I get a puppy I will make sure that it is 12 weeks old or more before bringing it home.

I know I'm a newbie and I'm glad I found this site... I won't get my puppy for another 3 weeks when she is 12 weeks. As I read posts I too become anxious about some of the comments the more experience make towards others. With that said, I take ownership for my anxious feelings. After all, this is written word and the only person who can put a tone to them is the reader. I do realize that there is so much passion and love for our fur family. However, I think it would be prudent (in some cases) to ask clarifying questions before being accusatory. Sometimes (rescues, poor doggie situations) it is best for the dog to get out of their situation and not wait the 12 weeks. As I read, I'm finding that some assume then have to backtrack and apologize. I guess what I'm trying to say is learn the full story first.

As for the age thing, I'll buy in to it. Makes sense that at 12 weeks they are better off. But why take them at 12 weeks? Wouldn't 14 weeks be better? Just curious.

As for not buying on sites like Craigslist, well if you're wanting a pure bred all paper yorkie, then sure only purchase from a reputable breeder. Then you know what you're getting. But if you're just wanting a friend and family member with the characteristics of a yorkie, there are plenty of places to consider. As with anything in life, you pay your money and take your chances.

So often we don't get the full story until it drips out in subsequent posts so posting one's feeling about the stated original post is all we have to go on for the OP and other posters reading it that might also be considering getting a very young puppy. Of course there are times it is probably way better for the puppy to go young but in most cases, they are by far better off with their momma and littermates until they are more mature. I wish posters would tell the whole story at first but so often they don't so one posts based on what is told as one can best figure it out. Later sometimes you look bad for it but at the time, you posted your best advice or opinion based on what you had. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a lot of posting going on as no one would want to post on a thread waiting to see if the OP would reveal more. So, we do the best we can. But I have read so very many posts on here about people getting their hearts broken when their new baby has died suddenly and so much of the time they are the very young ones taken from the "nest" quite early for that vulnerable, frail puppy. And the posting isn't done to shake the finger in the OP's face but to keep them from potentially getting their heart broken from a dead little Yorkie if only they will only wait a little bit and increase that little one's chances of making it that first few weeks after weaning. I don't understand not wanting to wait 2 - 4 weeks if it would give that dog even a 1% better chance to thrive.

I know that some times I come off VERY strong and bad and most of the time I try to put a better filter on then I used to have but I will admit the last weeks or so have been hard and I have not used the filter. I feel like I owe it to dogs in general to speak up for them and help them. With out the first dog we had a rescue lab mix who mostly just looked like a smaller lab saved my life with out her I would not be here because when I had no one she was there and helped me to hang on and I can honestly say with out Callie I doubt I would be living now because she is my reason to get up in the morning because she needs me and without me she gets very sad and wont do anything but sleep and she needs to to be feed, loved, combed, and played with. I feel like because of these dogs I owe my life to them. I also didn't know about brokers and puppy mills when I got Callie and I would not change anything but I have had to watch her go through things she would not have had to if she came from a good breeder and some of the things really cause her pain and suffering but there is not anything I can do about it but try to help her get through it and love her. This is why I speak out and sometimes come off bad its not my intention I just don't want any more dogs to suffer. I love them all of them.

With good breeders who do the health testing and genetic testing you have a much better chance of a healthy puppy rather the jo blow on the street who put two yorkies together and got puppies and is selling them on craigslist for some extra money.

I got my first two at 12wks from a byb. Raelle is a sweetie, so when the same breeder called me and said she had a little boy from the same Daddy, I jumped at the chance. She told me Orion would be like Raelle...a 'teacup'
He is 13.8lbs at 18mths! It is since being on here that I learned there is no such thing....luckily for me they are both healthy. Being on here has taught me what to look for in a breeder...hence after a year of searching I was blessed with my Biewer, Jersey!
Her breeder was/is wonderful in answering all my questions..even the ones I thought were assinine!
I am so very thankful for YT...everyday I am taught something new....as I hope the newbies that come here will as well.

All of this talk about the age of the pup coming home, I started to wonder how old Huey was when I brought him home almost 4 years ago. He was given to me free of charge ($500 worth of supplies later:rolleyes:) by a friend who bred her silky with a yorkie. She wasn't even a backyard breeder as this was the only litter she planned to have and she gave most away to her friends. I know he was born on Feb 16, because he was my valentine baby, so I started looking back in my photos and found one from when I brought him home & it was dated April 8. WHAT??? I brought my baby home at less than 8 weeks???!!! I really had no clue. I am so lucky that Huey is healthy and happy and that I have had no health issues in the almost 4 years I have had him. Although I bought several "instruction books" prior to bringing him home, I guess I was still pretty clueless, and even after 3+ years of having my furbaby I am realizing there is still much i need to learn. My hubby and I have been blessed with the Hughster and we wouldn't trade him for a million dollars, and I think YT is an invaluable source of information to both new AND old yorkie parents. Thank you to everyone who contributes your experiences and knowledge to this forum, because even things that may seem random and off the wall at times may be exactly what someone else needs to hear. :thumbup:

I think 14 weeks and older is better. So many breeders I talked with before getting Jilly didn't let any of their dogs go before 14 weeks, some of course at 6 months. I got Jilly at age 4 1/2 months and oh, she was so tiny, but she was a runt and even at that age seemed so terribly fragile and tiny. Even at that older age because she was so small and had so many health issues, we spent much of her first year in the vet's office with her feeling miserable or in very scary condition with vomiting and bloody and so very thin. I cannot imagine bringing her home tinier and younger than she was. I was scared enough as it was but if I'd gotten her at half of that age for some strange reason, such as her mother died & her littermates all gone or the breeder was having severe health problems and couldn't care for her, I probably would have needed to hire a vet to live at the house to calm my fears and let me sleep nights. And the breeder herself told me it was so often touch-and-go with Jilly until she was 10 weeks, with her staying at the vet more than once to save her life, that taking her, even at 4 1/2 months, was a great risk. But I wanted to try to give this tiny sweet little creature as good a life as possible once she seemed stable enough to change homes. She didn't really start to thrive or put on some weight until she passed the 18 month mark in life and still she had lifelong problems of one sort or another, due to her tiny size the vets all said.

Okay good thread. I didn't consider myself a backyard breeder. ( but guess in yt eyes I was). No I did not do all the genetic testing that I have now learned I should have. Yes I had a great vet on my side and discussed with him when to breed on which days etc.... I also had a lady that had worked around another yorkie breeder locally. Actually where I got my first yorkie many years ago. That being said. My goal was to have 3 litters spay momma keep one pup and have 3 litters etc.... Lexi had big litters I remember being so scared when the 7 th pup came that no way she could raise all these pups. But she did three times. She spent a lot of time with them at first but by week six not much at all. These pups got out of the pen several times a day and played with my other dogs. Closely supervised. But by eight weeks were eating great. Every buyer came to my house and I met with them and knew the situation. Heck some came every week after birth. I encouraged them to bring other dogs (small) into my home to see what they would think of a puppy. Now from this site maybe not a good idea. I always said they have to be current on shots and flea protection. I loved these pups I put packets together explaining all that could go wrong and what to do with a young pup if it did. They had been seen by my vet twice appropriate shots given. Every pup went home with a care package. And a blanket that smelled like the litter mates. Said call me anytime with any questions. AKC registration. And asked if they planned on breeding them. And suggested strongly not to. I did make a spay neuter contract with the last litter. I live in a rural community almost every pup went home at 8 weeks a few stayed longer. The first litter I know 6 to this day still doing well. I send happy birthday emails. And usually will here back. The second litter I lost contact with 2 after a year. The last litter I keep in touch with all 7. One pup out of the last litter had to have surgery on a hip due to growing to fast. I called her legs. Her name is Bella know. She is doing wonderful a year later. Bottom line due to this site and watching many videos on puppy mills. The female I kept back is spayed. Also I sold most of my pups very cheap according to this site. But I know they have great homes and tell any of them I would take the pups ( guess dogs) at this point anytime. I also have people who have one of my pups say if anyone needs to re home one of the others they would love to have it. So in my eyes success at this point. In others maybe not so much. And who knows if down the line it will be a different story. The oldest will just be 4 very soon. That being said I go back and forth about 8 to 12 week take home. Yes I believe 12 weeks with someone who knows what to watch for is much safer for the pup. And so sad for the member on this board who just lost her pup. ( been way to many). I say get to know your breeder well before ever taking a pup from them. You need to have another person to go to for questions.
Okay sorry this got so long

That is how I felt about breeding when I first got Laddy also. That is why I said thank God I found YT first. I think there are a lot of backyard breeders who like us really don't know it is wrong. I really don't think a lot of these people are bad people just uninformed.

The YTCA didn't arbitrary pick the number 12, this is in fact, a MINIMUM number that many many breeders with years of experience decided would give the Yorkie the best change at adjusting to his new home. Many breeders keep them longer and feel like a pup smaller than 2 pounds should not be placed. Some breeders are now waiting 16 weeks until a bile acids test can be done. Read this article on how toy dogs are different in maturing than other breeds. Why do Maltese puppies need to be 12 weeks old before going to a new home??


I really didn’t care if I had a purebred or not, and most of my dogs over the years have been mixed breeds from the pound, but this time I needed some specific traits, and I really wanted to raise a puppy. I knew that many byb's will breed a father daughter combination, they stud their boy out and get pick of the litter and choose a girl and become a “breeder”. Well this can result in some really bad genetic illnesses, and the emotional pain can be devestating. If you truly don’t care what type of dog you get, I suggest you go to pounds and shelters, they have some wonderfully healthy dogs, who will be put to sleep because they are no longer puppies, but they will make terrific pets. Please don’t support byb’s and puppy mill breeders.

There is no school for buying a puppy. It seems that the puppy mills and backyard breeders have a huge advantage as far as their means to educate the public. YT has stood for sound breeding practices and breeders have been advocating the concept of not selling a pup under 12 weeks of age. Unless a person comes to YT or speaks to a reputable breeder they have no idea about many things that concern the best aspects of purebred breeding.

People come here for good information. Some like what they hear and some don't. The majority want to do want to do what is best for their pets.

I am a strident advocate of buying a puppy from a reputable breeder and never before the age of 12 weeks. Every puppy is an individual and needs to be evaluated that way. However, I agree that if a puppy is in a bad situation and is not being properly socialized it does no good to keep it in that environment for an extra month and probably makes matters much worse.

I love that YT has such passionate Yorkie lovers and such experienced breeders, but I have to say, i have read so very many threads old and new where I have been quite shocked at the aggression.
These seem to be the threads however that receive most posts and go on forever and in many cases I feel sorry for the poster who has asked an honest question and are so obviously trying to do what is best for the pup they have.

It is very easy to take out our own frustrations on others on a forum and as some of you have said you have made mistakes yourselves, but that doesn't mean you do not entirely love your sick, scruffy, limpy and in my case allergic and baldy wee bundle of joy.

I believe that a few senior members do not realise how aggressive or hostile their posts appear until later and I believe some of those members have made new years resolutions to be more supportive and careful about what they post, I have definitely seen much more welcoming posts for new tiny baby moms since the start of the year.

It is very difficult to express empathy and real understanding in writing and blunt short questions come across as uncaring.

When I have written something I always read it back at least twice before posting, the first time I ask myself would I say this directly to a person who was in the room with me? The second time I try to think about how I would feel if what I had written was given to me as an answer if the answers are
No I would not say that out loud to someone or I might feel bad if I got that reply, then I delete instead of posting. (even in a post this long) but I still get the satisfaction of feeling I have vented even if I didn't post what I decided could hurt someones feelings.

Thank you for starting this thread, I do believe that many people with pups or dogs they love leave the forum very quickly because they feel picked on and those dogs could possibly suffer without the knowledge that this forum holds.