Mental Problems with dogs
 

Hi, I am a newbie and this forum is great, lots of good information and stories, LOL I could spend all day here if I let myself. In reading the posts about so many different situations I have started to think about something I never asked a vet about. Has anyone owned a dog that they would say had true mental problems (not behavior problems) but major problems like autism, bi polar, detachment disorder, ADD etc. People always say when you have problems with a dog it's the human owner and how they are raising their dog, but after 5 dogs of the same breed, raised the same way over a 25 year span I can't agree with that statement. My last male yorkie, Kirby was completely different from all the others. From the first day I brought him home at 4 months old I felt something was not right, but after spending $1,800.00 with a reputable but intimidating show breeder I kept him. He had so much anger, showed little affection, had tons of quirks and fears and an almost spiteful behavior, all of which got worse as he got older. His life sadly ended at age 5 after he tried to attack a Weimarimer (sp?), who he had known since birth and who never went after him. After Kirby passed several of my friends commented that he may have been demented or something along those lines. I have thought about this a lot and I have felt both guilty and embarrassed to admit that I never really bonded with him, but in truth he never let me. I would hold him often and he would refuse to look at me, he would turn his head to the side, when i was not in the house people would tell me Kirby would shake and tremble but when I would return after a brief greeting he would ignore me. I can't help but wonder is mental illness something just reserved for us humans or can animals have it as well. Please fee free to post your thoughts and experiences. Thanks Donna

I truly think my Wylie is a bit OCD; he has very specific routines. I know of a yorkie who has panic attacks.

I do think animals can have similar emotional/mental health issues that humans have - just in a somewhat different way. Some of it could be purely genetic and unexplainable. Some of it could be genetics + experience. Dogs can def feel depression, loss, they seem to grieve, can have anxiety, reaction to traumas...so yeah, I think what you're saying is very valid.

I think if it was a possible disease in animals it would've be studied if at all possible. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has come across anything regarding it.

One of my Yorkies has OCD along with high, high anxiety. I used to think it was inbred, but I think maybe not. I don't know. She is 3 years old.
Another girl Cheyenne seems to have a disorder of somekind. For example she seems to forget what you taught her the other day, and you have to teach her again. She will carry out what she was taught the next day, then totally forget and she must be retaught. She is almost 5 years old.

Yes, I believe they can suffer mentally from a lack of bonding.

I got my Peek A Boo from the Humane Society when he was 5 years old. He wasn't very friendly, though he did sit in my lap the first 3 days as he was scared to death. He had already been in 3 or 4 homes priur to mine. He wouldn't look at me, just kind of tolerated me. After 2 months, I was beginning to doubt my decision of getting, and seriously thought about returning him to the HS.

I had Yorkies before him and I know he was different, and his behavior seemed spiteful too. We had some housetraining issues, and I was just unhappy much of the time. Being a retired vet tech, I was quite embarrassed that I couldn't get through to him. I missed by 1st and 2nd Yorkies so badly though, I vowed to really give it my all and try again.

So I watched him closely, no more battles, let him out and took him for walks. Nothing changed. So I watched him some more. I noticed when I called his name, there was no response. When I called my kitties to come eat, he beat them into the kitchen. So I changed his name to 'Here, Kitty Kitty.' He would come when called, so I was happy. Back to watching... I finally decided he had more cat like behaviors, so I began treating him like a cat. He seemed happier that way.

He would go outside in the yard to pee, and come back in and poop in the house. So I would let him out, and then back in, and follow him around till he had to go, and let him back out again. This worked so we did it that way.

My vet said only feed him 1/2 can of food twice a day, to keep him at 5 pounds. He kept stealing cat food, and was fighting with my other dogs. I thought well, if he's hungry, he'll be grouchy, so I let him eat more. His aggressiveness began to go away.

I also made a vow to sit with him on my lap every night before bed, and I would tell him what a good boy he was. He acted like he had never heard those words before in his life. He did know every 4 letter word I could think of...that was sad. But every night I sat with him, and told him he was good. And that I loved him, and no matter what he did wrong, I didn't care, he could stay with me. Forever. And when we had a bad day, I still lied and told him he was a good boy anyway. He was who he was, and I would love him anyway. And I tried.

After some time passed, I noticed his behavior was improving! This was great, and I started to give him kisses on his cheeks at night to go along with our little talks. I'd kiss one side and he would flip his head around so I could kiss the other side. I had given up after 5 months of him ever kissing me back. I just accepted him as a non-kissing dog. I think he liked it though when I kissed him, so I never stopped. Some days he wanted more kisses than other days. After eight months of him not kissing me or even looking at me, he finally licked my cheek! We celebrated some and went to bed.

I remember putting his bed in the wash one day. When he saw it wasn't in it's usual place, he panicked, and started looking all over the house for it, frantically. When I realized what he was doing, I held him until I could show him I was only washing his bed, I was not throwing him out on the street. He stayed in my arms till the dry cycle finished, and when I replaced his bed he got right in it and went to sleep. I went out and bought more beds that day, so he would never feel like that again.

He just turned 15 years old this past December. We are absolutely best buddies, and he really is a good boy. Most of the time, lol.
He was the most difficult dog I ever had to get close to, but it was worth it. Mental illness? Maybe. He had shut down emotionally, so I had to bring him back. He loves everybody and has for 9 years.

LoL yeah Elvis is OCD as well. He obsessively cleans himself especially his feet.

Some dogs spin in circles-mostly pup mill dogs used to being caged...you see dog's can get depressed, my mini schnauzer is from a breed predisposed to it.

However dogs are not like us they have neurological issues and behavioral issues more so than psychological issue and most are due to either genetic defect or a direct cause and affect of abuse or neglect.

I'd ask the breeder about their specific breeding: linage, inbreeding and so forth perhaps his behavior was a direct result, or something she knows about, or maybe would want to be aware of.

There's a dog here with similar problems... I'll contact his Mom to post here.

I have a dog who cannot learn. His name is Sparky he is a malti/pom & has white dog syndrome. Dogs with this condition often have learning disabilities. White dog syndrome is not only seen in white dogs but is more common in white dogs.

Callie has ocd and it was terrible with her having to be in the pen at night after her surgery when I would start doing my night time "rituals" (I have ocd too) she couldn't go do hers and would bark and cry like crazy in her pen and she is not a barker at all. If I forget a step in her night time ritual she can not sleep. I had to get her a crate for when we travel because I cant keep her ritual the complete same at a hotel sp she will walk around forever and jump on me and stuff. I feel yorkies are the closet dogs to humans so I think anything is possible.

KJC, what a lovely story and thank you so much for taking the time to tell it. I can appreciate the issues you went through with your rescue dog because who knows what he went through before he hit the jackpot and landed in your lap. You brought the love back to a dog who others gave up on time and time again, how inspiring. With my Kirby it was different I got him while he was still a pup, he came from a well know breeder that bred show dogs in her home, while she was a hard headed know it all type she was good to her dogs so I don't think there was any abuse. I don't have any kids, I work at home and my husband is gone long hours so I know there was no one mistreating him. I tried holding him day in and day out, lots of pats, treats, kisses, praise, and walks. About the only thing he cared about was a long stuffed snake on a stick that was a cat toy, that we played a tug of war game with it. He did not even like treats that much. One of the things I think that made him unhappy is he wanted to be outside a lot, we can't have a fence and with a 4lb dog I don't think an invisible fence is the way to go. Since he would take off in a nano second he could never be off leash. I do think that frustrated him, but we did take a lot of walks and I used a long tie up when we were outside, but because of his behavior when encountering other dogs I started to have a hard time doing that. When we would come across other dogs he would go crazy, he would pull to the point of almost breaking his harness. He would be barking, lunging,biting the air and at me. I would often pick him up to try to calm him but his neck and head would be moving so violently I though it might snap off. I would try to hug him close and he would try to bite me. He would also react the same way when anyone would come over, I would pick him up and he would turn into 50 lbs of struggling anger,biting me out of frustration because I would not let him attack the person at the door, it did not get much better if they came in. I have had dogs that bark at other dogs or at the door so I know what that is like, this was way over the top behavior. He also went ballistic when cars and trucks would drive by the house, I swear he spent 50% of the day barking. He also was a spiteful wetter. He was litter trained and used the box a lot, but if something did not go his way like I went out to get the mail, or I did not carry him upstairs when I ran up to get the laundry he would wet at the spot I left him at, like the front door or at the foot of the stairs. He could have gone in his litter box just before I went outside to get the mail but when i came back in, there by the door was some pee. If he would have allowed me to just pick him up I would have carried him outside more, but everytime I would try to pick him up he would jump back and back and back, I could never just get him, and often I did not have the time to coax him into my arms for a 30 sec. walk upstairs or to the mail box. I tried talking to the breeder a few days after I got him, he was not exhibiting all the behavior i outlined but I could tell something was just a bit off, she said she saw none of that, which is probably true. I also made the mistake of trimming his hair the first week I got him, in the contract there were rules against that, so I know I could not have returned him for a refund. He was a very good looking yorkie and for five years slept with his head on the pillow between my husband and I, we loved him in spite of all this, but it was not easy. I was surprised that after getting Lola, the polar opposite of Kirby, how many friends have said, "you deserve a good one after Kirby." It sort of validates what I have said but none the less I told my husband that it hurts that so many people did not seem to like Kirby.

Lovetodream, I am curious what are Callie's night time rituals?

Loved reading this and so glad that you never gave up on him,,,

What a wonderful story, thanks for sharing.

Thanks...

I wanted to come back to this thread to clarify: Peek a Boo started life as a Show-dog. From there his breeder retired him and gave him to a friend of hers. He lived with that friend and his wife, their cats and one or two other dogs, but sadly he didn't fit in. He was then passed on to the friend's MIL, then onto the Humane Society. I can't really say he was 'abused' in the sense we are most familiar with, but I think that this little guy definitely lacked any kind of human bonding in his early years, and that this really did a number on his head.

When I go into the kitchen and do my advair (med) and am washing my mouth out she hears me start rinsing the second time she gets up (even if she is sleeping) and goes out the doggy door goes potty comes back in sits in front of my grandma who takes whatever she is wearing off and rubes her back telling her good night, then Callie runs to my bedroom door (if I take to long she will come find me hit my leg and run back) and wait for me to open it, once open she runs to her stairs and up on the bed, I have already normally set her nightie out on the end of the bed and she will hit it with her nose when she gets on the bed, I set her yogurt drop night treats on the bed next to her and she will roll over on her back and I rub her tummy a bit, then she sits back up I do a quick check of her ears which she will actually turn her head to the side so I can check each ear and mouth, then I use a tissue to wipe gentle any eye bogies, then I say wipe your nose and she dabs her nose on the tissue (I taught her this when he nose was very drippy during allergy season) then I toss the tissue in the trash can, ask for a kiss, give her the first yogurt drop just for being so cute lol, then I used to ask her for a high five and put my hand up but now she throws her hand in the air pretty quick with no time to ask for it, then I hold the head hole to her nightie and she put her head through the hole, I hold the left side out and she slides her arm through then does the same with the right side, I say ok and she goes down the steps, and to her soft house, I check to make sure she is comfy and she will kiss my hand, then I run to go potty come back give her another small little treat and then I pop into my bed. That sounds like a lot when I type it out lol.

What you did for Peek A Boo is such a great accomplishment! Few people would have cared as much about him as you did. I had a cat named that but I spelled it Peekaboo...nice name! ;)

I agree that they can suffer terribly...mentally...from abuses as well as physical issues, drugs, chemical food additives, and other things.

My first Shep/Lab managed to sneak out of the house in heat before we knew she'd started her cycle and about a week before she was to be spayed and had 7 puppies. When they were on soft solid food about a week, one pup somehow managed to choke on a bit of the food. I was right there with all of them but didn't see him right away 'cuz I was working with whole whole litter, cleaning the welping box, etc. and turned away for a couple minutes, glancing at them every now and then. When I looked back at them, he was lying on the floor, unconscious, so I grabbed him up and did a Heimlich and got him breathing, but you could see in his eyes and body he was mentally retarded and we lost him anyway. It was awful and I never took my eyes off the pups while they were eating again.

I had a friend who had a Maine Coon cat...a gift to her who became her heart...who she had to have PTS 'cuz he was acting schizophrenic. He'd be all lovey dovey one second and attack her the next. Her vet...also my vet...called it "Rage" and said it is more common in dogs than cats, where it is rare.

Also, I have rescued feral cats who seem quite neurotic with fear based issues, and most of them have overcome everything but some needed to be indoors for 30 minutes or so before the 'outside feral cat' in them relaxed enough to be comfortable indoors. Another cat, stray or dumped, was not very friendly, even after we took care of his absessed leg. If you touched him with your foot...I give mine foot-lovies when my hands are busy...he'd freak out and be all teeth and claws. Again, just kept treating him like nothing was wrong, and continuing to love him up and not too much later, he'd flop down on my feet and start foot-loveying, plus he'd let my baby granddaughter use him as a footstool.

I have a friend who got a dog from a shelter...he was pretty neurotic, too. It took quite a while, and he had some physical issues from the abuse they had corrected surgically, but they just kept loving him until he decided people were ok again and now he is a little darling.

Sorry this was so lengthy, but since animals eat processed foods with additives, and are given chemical drugs, and display emotions and behaviors rather like humans, etc., I cannot imagine that some of them don't end up with some of the same mental and emotional problems people do. :)

I rescued a french brittany spaniel at a couple months age. She would not associate with males her entire life. The exception was me. She lived a long happy life, but trembled at the site of a man. I'm a guy and she trembled if i left her for just a minute. If a guy came around that she was not familiar with, she would run in circles and bite her tail.
What ever the reason( and im well aware of the reason), this was a mental disorder.
Id imagine anything to be possible

She may have been a "show" breeder, but she isn't what I'd call a good breeder. So glad Peek a Boo, found a loving home.

This topic is of huge interest to me. Temperament is thought to be inherited and developed; ie Nature versus nuture. And it appears for the most part to be both.

What I do find most interesting is that a puppy can have temperament flaws unique to itself and not shared by other litter mates, and come from stable parents and lineage.

Temperament test evaluators (these are mainly used for the working breeds, and some hunting breeds), do have ways for assessing if this dog, has an inborn ie genetic problem, versus a training or discipline shortfall. The vast majority of dogs who exhibit behaviour and or temperament problems, the problem is rightly found in their upbringing. And therefor should be the first line of investigation.

I've long believed that there should be a Temperament Test evaluative standard for all dogs, but particularly companion/toy breed dogs.

A healthy dog no matter what breed it is needs to have a healthy temperament. Each faucet of temperament can be viewed as a temperature gauge. Each breeds' norm is somewhat different on that temperature gauge.

For example; take the term "friendliness or socialbility". Many working and or guard breeds would be low on the scale of friendliness" - their desired breed characteristics swing more to aloofness. These breeds are meant to be calm and confident and if an importune hand reaches out to pet them; they merely swing their head out of contact, or sidestep out of reach. They neither want nor desire stranger contact. Often times this characteristic comes coupled with a deep loyalty and love for their owners. And these are the folks that they seek affection and loving from.

A dog with a flawed temperament should never be breed, no matter how perfect the dog might be in other ways.

Kind of OT but not really.

Pits are controversial I think BSL is well take off the L...

However I am not going to dismiss the genetic flaw proven and markered showing up in blue nose pit which among other neurological defects has caused severe aggression.

This 'defect' has been proven due to them being overly inbred for a brighter more silvery blue coloration and the production of many bright all white pits.

I would openly assume such issues could also occur in any dog breed for the same reasoning.

That sentence reminds me of my last yorkie, Chelsea. She was a beautiful show-quality looking yorkie. She was by far the best looking pup out of the litter of just 4 females. I remember at the time, wondering why the breeder wasn't keeping her, but was keeping one of the other females....until I watched the puppies interact.

Chelsea was soooo incredibly nervous/skittish. Her mom seemed to recognize it too and she picked on her noticeably more than all the other puppies, which in turn led them to follow mom's lead and pick on her too. I spent hours at the breeders home trying to chose my puppy and ended up choosing Chelsea not only because she was so incredibly cute but also because I wanted to get her away from her mom & siblings who were constantly nipping at her and trying to distance themselves from her...she was the left out pup :(

Chelsea became more confident as she grew older, especially in the security of her home environment, although she was never what I would describe as a confident dog, but she sure was beautiful & as sweet and gentle as could be :)

How beautiful! You are an angel!

I always look out for your posts - they are always full of such thought, and you give your responses with such care.

Thank you for telling us this amazing story :) Sally + Harry x

Me too!:D

Aw! Thank you!

Wow! Thank you for the compliment! :)

Oh!

Thankfully this was pointed out to me.

I have brain pause at the moment:

Scoobers has major anxiety issues mainly separation anxiety in which he was prescribed doggy Prozac. I chose training and natural 'sedative' Dog's ell mello mut and rescue remedy.
I think (assume) his issue was based on his previous abuse and during his rehab he was with me 24:7 after becoming unafraid of me. So I blame my own actions for some of his behaviors and his previous abuser for the rest of it.

Princess takes a vitamin supplement (I think it's actually more minerals) because she eats random objects-mainly hard plastic and her dental rope. It started as puppy behavior but she would actually eat things whole it has stopped almost completely with modification of her diet and training: vet still calls it a behavioral disorder.

We are used to seeing genetic defects like liver shunt issues or hip dysfunctions but brain issues can be caused by the genetics of the dog as well. Not all show breeders are genetics experts and even those who know a lot are not always free from problems. Puppies need to be handled frequently, several times a day from birth but owners are not always able to give those pups the time they need. Sometimes they are not handled correctly and that can leave an imprint on their little brains as well. Some people can produce a near perfect looking dog but the personality may be far from what is desired for the breed. Many problems can be overcome with the right kind of person to work with it but if the problem is genetic it is a whole different kind of thing to deal with. Usually there is not much that can be done.