Okay, banning is not a good option. Then, permits, ownership fees, saftey and control classes, puppy and dog care classes for owners of any large dog capable that's not fair... for all dog owners. I would submit to testing, classes, fees, whatever if my neighbors had to go too... at least then they may be made aware of the damage their dogs could do, and steps they need to take to contain and control their animals, like fencing and such. And they need to be taught that they, as owners, are responsible for any damage their dog may do.

I chose Yorkies bc I don't want 6 foot, lidded chain link fencing in my yard to contain my dogs. I don't want to have to be responsible for children/adults/cats/dogs being maimed or killed. I don't want to be dragged down the street when my dog sees what he thinks is prey. When my Yorkie sees a squirrel, I can hold her back (most times, JK). That is why I choose to own Yorkies, and not a large breed dog. Plus they eat less and poop less and puke less. And I trust them more not to turn on me, than I would any big dog. I want companionship, not a liability.

I have to push my stepdaughter in her wheelchair out to the bus every morning and bring her back in the house every afternoon. One day, the neighbor's Rottie was out on walkabout. Biggest (intact) Rottie I've ever seen in my life. I had to stand between him and my SD. I am sick of this crap. Even though I know now he's a big baby, I did not know that the first time we met. And I can not trust any dog around my SD (except therapy dogs).

And, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the small dog attacks were brought on by an approach by the victim? Every attack I mentioned by big dogs was not instigated by the victim (at least not knowingly). Dogs trained to fight dogs... then something is very wrong with them when they attack humans (brain cells gone wacky). The dog that came after me I had previously met and petted at least 6-8 times over the course of 2 years.

And one last problem... why are these fighting type dogs overrunning the shelters across the country? Overpopulation by unscrupulous breeders. The vet I used to work for is starting a mobile SN clinic to drive through the city streets and find intact animals and try to convince the owners to S/N on the spot for free.

And to clarify, I live in Baltimore County, where the little girl was mauled. There was a dog fighting ring busted right up the street from where I live 15 years ago. Drove by the place everyday, never noticed anything going on. Never even heard dogs barking. The problem is maybe worse in the city, but it's really happening all over.

Ontario's pit bull ban did very little good and now they are kinda backed into a corner. What now, ban the breed that they assume has the next highest bite potential?

Pit bull ban hasn?t cut dog bites - thestar.com

I don't see a problem with handling classes, but keeping in mind that I would have to submit to the same with my small dog, I'd then be against it. Remember what handling means to most trainers...choke collars, prong collars, etc. - even on Yorkies. So then we have a whole new debate about what owners have to go and to what extent they have to listen after being trained, etc.

And I don't know about other areas of the country, but here the largest population of pit bulls is in Detroit. Pit fighting here is huge. These people don't register their dogs, so how would they be tracked to come to training...? Police could go door to door, but there are some places in Detroit where that is just not going to happen.

I think stricter laws should be in place for those caught dog fighting because a lot of the pit bulls here are bred it. I also don't think most dogs should just be chained up outside. That's a good way to cause aggression.

I don't think there is a solution that would make everybody happy, but banning a breed is unfair.

Banning worked here - like a charm!:) They've been banned here for 24 years, if I remember correctly. Bad memory.:) No more attacks have happened. Just the occasional dog bite that doesn't amount to more than broken skin.

Is that a ban on just Pit Bulls? Think I'll move. Haha.

BSL doesn't work. We have had it for five years, and incidence of dog bites did not drop dramatically.

But there are plenty of problems. The public generally speaking has no idea on how to meet strange dogs. The owners do NOT train their dogs, at least many do not. Once puppy class is done, wow my dog is trained (not).

Just last night we were out walking our big boy Magic, about 100 feet away a man with 2 poodle mixes; they went crazy barking at Magic, pulling on the lead, etc. What did the owner do? Nothing, no corrections at all. Magic was told to ignore, which he did, and went about his business. The owner said wow, your dog is well trained, I said yes he is, and it's a good thing too. You really should try to control your dog's aggressive barking, it is likely to lead to trouble one day.

We have had responsible pet ownership weeks run by the CKC over the past three years, I dont know if it has made a difference or not, to the general public.

I still see folks walking dogs off leash, that are not under the control of their owners. People running up to strange dogs, kids that are clueless about how to greet a dog. The list goes on.

I like the idea of mandatory training to get a dog license and to renew it. Like a driver's test.

:thumbup:

My father in law fell in love with the breed years ago and has been raising them. He has 2 now and really they are some of the most sweetest dogs, they really are. Just big babies who can't stand not to be petted and spoiled. My Husbands all time favorite pet was Sable a pitt. She was loyal and sweet and would have given her life to save his if the need ever arose. She was also super smart and very "human" like.

I don't know the answer and feel a little bit conflicted about the whole 'bully breed' thing.

It IS true that a small dog can bite; but most likely, the yorkie is not going to cause a fatality OR do the damage that a Pit, Rot, GSD, etc. can do.

Just when I think we should ban all Pits - I remember Cesar Milan's Daddy. What a wonderful example of what that breed could be.

I think it's because ALL THE WRONG PEOPLE purchase these dogs and they have NO IDEA how to train, handle, exercise, or be good stewards of these animals.

I do not know how to legislate that.

It's not that I don't like the breed, or any breed. We were seriously considering adopting a Bully (PB or a Frenchie) before we found Tink. I had thought about how to manage one in my house with Peek a Boo. In the end, we decided against it. I felt like I would be putting Peek's life at risk, and I didn't want to chance it. Just not worth it to me, and I felt I wasn't up to the task, wasn't Alpha enough all the time. Maybe if I was younger and didn't have back problems and a young adult to care for.

I felt bad because I had a few picked out at the shelter, and was sad not knowing their fate. Then we saw Tink, and adopted her instead. I guess I realized my limitations and I'm glad I did the research.

But now I have to deal with 3 PB/PB mixes whose owners leave them off leash most of the time. And the Mastiff puppy down the street may need a higher fence, or more training. And the lady that was being dragged down the street by her Cane Corso, haven't seen them lately. I think if I did have a PB I wouldn't be as worried (better chance of surviving an attack than a Yorkie).:(

Daddy was a purebred American Staffordshire Terrier, .

It is so unfortunate that children, people, and pets have been maimed and killed by "pit bulls." From posters' anecdotes, it seems that the pit bulls who attacked were typically not contained. I chalk it up to irresponsible pet ownership. I have seen and heard of many pit bulls who were simply chained and left outside with no socialization or training. And I really think that we need more responsible owners who understand the risk for violence that is associated with these breeds, and can properly control their dogs.

My local dog parks have banned pit bull type dogs, since in my area at least, there seems to be more irresponsible than responsible put bull owners. I will not be surprised if there are illegal pit bull fighting rings here in the area, and I will not be surprised if some pet pit bulls came from these lines bred for dog fighting. Of if some pet pit bulls came from backyard breeders who were not careful to exclude aggressive pits from their lines.

I have met some responsible pit bull owners and their dogs were so sweet. I did notice that these owners supervised their pet greatly when around people and pets, so these owners did understand the potential for violence and did not let their guard down.

The pitfull used to be described as any dog bred to kill another dog in the fighting pit. Dog fighters pounced on the bully breeds since the Staff and others like it are not too large, gangling or slow or too small to have a lot of brute force. They bred for a dog with a huge bite radius(apparently dog fighters love this quality), that have a terrier's focus and killing instinct, bred it to some Mastiffs to enlarge it some and other breeds until they got what we now know as the pitfull. Those they begin to line breed for extreme aggression and kill instincts. Labs and Beagles and Pomeranians just do not have those disturbing facts in their remote or current lineage as the pit does.

Probably as long as we have humans doing such a disservice to animals as breeding them for their killing/destructive abilities as they are breeding some pits as of this moment and those genes permeating their progeny, we are going to have a likelihood of those dogs' less aggressive littermates placed with other homes where they may be wonderful pets in some hands but it others, can wind up attacking and damaging people and other dogs and cats.

Our legislators and police departments have got to realize the problem is basically a human one and unless we dog lovers press our reps to vote laws that that allow our police officers to put owners of such dogs in jail for a few years, with no quick release in 6 mos., nothing else will probably work. Or they can ban the breeds with the highest human kill/damage rate and a pet owner will have to have a DNA test to prove there is none of that breed in their dog's lineage. I sure hate to keep hearing stories such as the one that started this thread since myself or loved ones could be the next victim of such dogs! When you personalize it, this story become urgent.

I know if I have my Tibbe out in the front yard and I see a small breed approaching, I don't really worry and just gather my baby up in my arms, wait on the porch to watch. If I should see a large dog coming, especially a pitbull, I am going into the house with Tibbe as fast as I can as I know that could be a dog with bad, bad genes and I've got to keep my baby and me safe. It is a sad fact.

Aggressive pitbulls are because of bad owners that dont train or buy them to be viscious and bad breeding. Just watch pitbulls and parolees and pitboss on animal planet and if you have a negative view of pitbulls your mind will change

I remember a long time ago my friend and I used to visit the Hunter (the tv show) set and Stephanie Kramer had a pit bull named Maggie. The was the sweetest dog I've ever seen. She roamed around the set all day and loved to be petted and once in awhile would sneak a snack from the food tray. I think it's how the dog was trained and treated.
I also remember many many years ago the mail man was attacked by a little Pom and had his neck ripped opened when the Pom jumped up and went for him. I don't dislike any breed of dog but I have to say I wouldn't want to meet up with a Pit Bull in a dark alley.

this is the problem... nothing is cut and dry, black or white there are so many areas of gray.
Me, personally, do not like pit bulls or mixes. I am scared of them and have seen too many bad things. My BIL had one many years ago that was very sweet. I think that the Pitt bulls that are making the bad press have been breed to be aggressive - not even the same dog as my bil's molly.

I used to sort of feel that way about dobies, but I have a friend who breeds dobies and I see that (if breed correctly) they are a great dogs. I let them play with my guys with supervision (very close supervision) because you just never know. She has a very hard time selling her pup (used to get $3000 per dog-- show quality) because many people don't want the added expense of the extra home owners insurance and other issue of having a dog that is perceived as aggressive

I had a neighbor who had a dobie puppy and she had it trained to be an attack dog. The stupid lady used to say things like "I told my son (a 7 year old kid) not to play attack with his dog" really lady??? I told her, if her dog ever attacked anyone I would be a witness that she had him trained and knew the dangers. They moved.
I also had a neighbor (different) who had German Shepards, what a great dog. Now... if I was out and saw either breed running toward me off leash.. well heart attack!!

I watched a show on pitt bull rescue on tv-- they were talking about a gene that makes the pitt bulls very aggressive (if I remember correctly it showed up in blue markings?) so it is a breeding problem. And like already said-- the wrong people breed the wrong type of dog for the wrong reasons and we all suffer and the wrong dogs suffer.

Crazy breeders and owners make a vulnerable public.

How sad. I wonder sometimes what goes through owners minds when they cannot keep a leash on a dog and teach them obedience when they are a breed that is known to have issues. I had a run in with a pitbull a few years ago. I was walking my pom in my neighborhood, listening to my zune, and something made me look off to my right at a retaining wall. Here comes a pit bull galloping at me full speed ahead. I pulled up on sarge's leash and he flew up into my arms, I turned my back to the PB and yelled NO! He jumped up at my back trying to get to sarge and I kicked out and yelled NO again, he ran off. I stopped taking walks with sarge there...scared the bejeebies out of me. I held sarge all the way home and jogged most of the way.

When I first got my lab he scared me, he was 4 already and he's got a huge head like the biggest rottie. (We adopted him from a deploying soldier) He's the sweetest dog, but I know he has some bite power. Thankfully his owner trained him well and taught us the commands to keep Balance in line. Still I wouldn't trust my old man with a child. His teeth and head size are mammoth and he's never been around little one's. I was kinda surprised to see labs in some of the articles, but...logically thinking I'm guessing the larger specimens of the breed could be in the mix.

That is exactly why my parents got out of Breeding Dobermans. What awesome dogs!!

As far as the blue gene....I really don't know. My Father in Law dogs are reddish/white with red noses and Sable was white with a red nose.

I don't particularly like Catahoula or Akita dogs as I have been attacked by both, but it doesn't mean I think they should be banned. I was also charged by a Cujo (SP?) looking Saint Bernard once (VERY VERY SCARY)...however Brandi our Doberman was with me and stood "our" ground. The Saint Bernard stood and barked at us but didn't come any closer. Brandi would have protected me with her life, and it would have taken her life if that massive dog had attacked.. I was only about 12 at the time. The dogs "owner" and I use that term loosely, finally came out of his house and got his dog. I never saw that dog again. My parents were so relieved we had her. I know if the same thing happened my Father in Laws dogs would do the same. Pits are very loyal and brave.

I don't know about the creds of this site but this is interesting:

U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

See the Home page, too. It is such a shame irresponsible people allow this to go on and on.

Brit -- that article and its supposed LIST is a CROCK! Talk about trying to twist the facts around -- that group does it!("The information here comes from the Responsible Dog Owners Of The Western States (RDOWS) , which has just updated the list of breeds that have been banned or restricted in the U.S.") They do say that there are 2 ways to get on the list, either by name or by description! So, somewhere there is a description of pitt bulls that these people have very broadly decided also encompasses pugs, sharpeis, terriers and you name it! That is just ridiculous. I think any sensible person knows the description was never meant to include all the breeds they put on their list! You are sharper than to fall for that article!

Yay for Kansas! I wish we had more courageous enough to ban or at least enforce spay & neuter!

By the way -- you omitted "BY MUCH" after "hasn't cut dog bites." in the quote. The number of dog bites has gone down, just not as much as desired! It takes a while. Remember Ontario did not move all the pit bulls out! The ones already there were supposed to be spayed & neutered and muzzled. But they ARE still there! So, the first 5 years are NOT going to show a huge reduction. But as they start enforcing the spay & neuter, the number of pit bulls will slowly go down and so will the number of serious dog bites.

Remember what I said about statistics showing about anything you want them to? This is an example. sure the numbers have not gone down much yet -- but NEITHER has the actual pit bull population. You have to give the law time to really make a difference in the numbers of pit bulls walking around! Another question would be just how much enforcement has gone along with the law change?

So to those who think that we should ban "pit bulls", exactly what breeds are you wanting banned?

That is a very telling article. I am especially interested in the numbers that have to do with fatalities. That is where the real difference comes in. Any dog can bite but only a few can kill (for the most part -- I know there are always exceptions to the rule).

BTW -- I apologize for the last post I made where the poster was just quoting the headline! The actual article said the number of dog bites had not gone down BY MUCH but the headline chose to shorten it for affect. Another slanting of the truth for the effect desired!

Sorry, I'm terrible with statistics...Can someone explain how they got these numbers?
80% of attacks that induce bodily harm
70% of attacks to children
83% of attack to adults
69% of attacks that result in fatalities
75% that result in maiming
How can you have both 70% to kids then have another 83% to adults? Honest question, I'm not sure how they're doing their numbers...

PS...someone please define "pit bull", if you mean dogs that are used in the dog fighting rings, yes I agree, ban that "sport" and put down the dogs used in those rings. As sad as that is, but they may not be aggressive towards humans but they were trained to fight and it would only be a matter of time before the dog got out of control. But many of these disgusting humans that fight dogs for $$ don't have a specific breed, they call their dogs "pit bulls" because the dogs are fighting in the "pits". If you mean all bull dogs, well good luck with that...people that own their $2500 English Bullys aren't going to go down quiet. If you're talking American Staffs, I've met too many friendly ones to say they're no good.
I don't see the point to banning breeds, people are still going to own them. They'll just call them a "lab mix" and go on about their business.

Punish the deed, not the breed!

That is what they do here. We have a ban on "pits" so people just say their dog is a Stafford or some other breed, or a mix...no one really questions it.

The funny thing is that last two attacks we had weren't by pits at all.

I'm not sure where you are getting that it's a load of crock. I admit, I didn't do any deep searching but that list is on multiple dog forums. I'm going to go search now to find out more info. I could not find anything about it being "fake" on Google, and usually snopes would have something. I believe they are simply saying that this list of dog breeds are banned SOMEWHERE. An apartment complex in, say, California, may have Pugs banned, etc. Irregardless, it just proves how ridiculous BSL really is and you can't just naturally assume your breed is "safe". Ban one breed, you're allowing them to be able to ban any breed they want for any reason.

I posted this above but everyone that is for BSL seemed to pass by some of the facts I posted. In the ten years since the Dangerous Dogs Act banned the last 4 dogs in the UK (Fila, PB 'type', Dogo Argentino and Japanese Tosa) dog bites have increased by 50%. Clearly... something is NOT working.

We don't wipe out or ban the German's because Hitler was a terrible man.
So why is it any different for dogs? Thanks to BYBers and puppy millers, Golden Retrievers have been on the rise over the last decade or so for dog bites. However, subjecting them to BSL would be... idiotic, right? A knee jerk reaction to a HUGE problem that can not just be fixed by banning them.

I saw this posted somewhere else and totally agree:
Why don't you just go ahead and ban all black people? After all, black people are the cause of violent crime and it's well known that having a group of black people around means that sooner or later, someone is going to get killed, because that's what they do. Black people are vicious killers and are a menace to society.

See how dumb that sounds? Now just replace black person with pit bull.

I don't particularly like Jack Russel Terriers. Most of them I meet are annoying, barky, hyper spazzes who constantly start trouble and get into fights. That's my generalization of them from all the ones I've had experienced with (and lived with). I've only met one JRT that I liked. So because I've had bad experiences with them, I'm going to support that they all be banned? No... that would be silly.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup:

Probably they will have to ban anything with pitbull in its breed description or DNA. Not saying it is fair but action is necessary. Just because something is hard to do doesn't excuse society and caring people from starting to address it somehow - or else we keep having stories of the type that started this thread.

I think the quicker way to get results is to go after the dog fighers who breed fighters and the people who own a dog that attacks. When you go after the person responsible and start to jail them, they tend to see the light. If we have to pay more in taxes to build more jails/hire jailers and police because people will breed and keep dangerous dogs, then we have to do it or see maybe our own child or dog killed by one of these dogs.

I know at our Animal Control Shelter, the vast majority of them are pitbulls and the rest largely bully breeds. I guess many people just cannot control these big, strong dogs. Our AC Director told me that when they call owners to pick up their dog, most of the pitbull and bully breed owners refuse. We have to do something if we care about the victims and future victims and the endless killing of these poor dogs standing in all those cages across America.

Also, I know that the victim usually isn't at fault when attacked by a dog. But PARENTS need to teach their kids how to approach strange dogs. I was walking my lab/shep mix one night, a big 95 lb white loveable polar bear :), and a kid, no older than 3/4 y/o (I don't know with kids, dont have them) comes running up and jumps on Max to give him a hug. Lucky for the kid Max was such a friendly giant, as that could have been a tragedy if the child ran up to the wrong dog. And I'm not saying a "pit bull" per say would have attacked the kid, but he could have run up to a yorkie and got bit...
Parents definelty need to take charge and teach their kids to stay away from strange dogs, and if the dog is with the owner to ask if its friendly and if they can pet it. Then the owner of the large/small dog can say yes/no. I'd probably almost always say no, just because if the dog, lab mix/boxer/rottie/yorkie/shih tzu/pug/etc. were to have a moment of stupidity and nip the kid, then I'm liable for it. And most likely would have to put my beloved pet down.
Just sayin...I wish parents would really get more involved in teaching their kids respect of people and animals. I know there are many many many instances where the dogs were out running wild and then attacked because the kid/adult were at the wrong place wrong time, but for those cases where kids put their hands through a fence and don't expect to get bit...those ones really peeve me because now that dog has to be put down for "defending its territory".
Sorry...ranting done.

Sorry my friend.. but I find this post very offensive!!