Wanted to Ask
 

I am frankly SHOCKED by all the people who get puppies from breeders and the puppies have giardia and coccidia. Or other parasites. :mad:

I would think that before you breed two dogs you would at least have them checked for something like parasites, not to mention all the other recommended health issues in yorkies. Even if you were just an ignorant pet owner sticking two dogs together, it seems you'd at least make sure they were physically healthy enough to breed and had basic health screening like a fecal. :confused:

I keep assuming the people they get these sick puppies from are actually parasites themselves. True?

I agree.
Poppy came to me crawling with ear mites, I noticed her scratching the first day I brought her home and took her to the vet. At first they thought it was an infection as it took a while for the eggs to hatch and for the vet to be able to diagnose the mites. But she was treated straight away.
I dont know how the 'breeder' could have missed something like that, it's cruel and irresponsible.

I agree also. That's why we should always purchase from a good breeder. A good breeder would have a health guarantee. The first few days when you bring the pup to the vet the pup would be returnable if it was sick or infected. It is very sad to see all these pups suffer because of someones ignorance.

I agree that no one should ignore the basics. I suspect that these types of breeders don't bother with vetting their own dogs.

I also think that the return policy breeders have is bogus. We're not talking about a jacket, or a clock radio, we're talking about cute fluffy puppies. I would think it's safe to assume that the large majority of people fall in love instantly with their puppies and will do anything and everything to get them better. Greeders know this and know that people aren't as heartless as they are. The buyers keep their sick dog, and the greeders keep their precious money. How many go after the greeders for help with vet bills? I think that number is small as well. It's a win win for the greeders in that case. They are no longer financially responsible for a sick dog, and they even profit from the poor pup.

Great post! :thumbup:

Agree 100% a great post!

:thumbup:! I know my breeder stands behind Her pups and if they would ever have a problem(liver shunt, congenital problem, etc) she would take responsibility and wouldn't leave me hanging. I wish everyone could do enough research and find a wonderful breeder. It took me six months before I purchased my pup. If more people would buy from good breeders we would slowly see these puppy mills and BYBs shutting down! One day, one day!

:thumbup:

I agree. A breeder who sells a dog with this type of thing should pay for all vet costs associated with clearing it up. I fell in love with Joey immediately, and I could never return him, no matter what the problem. I also believe it's also up to the breeder to educate the puppy buyer on how to keep their new puppy healthy. It's so sad when I read about new puppy owners taking their 8-week-old puppies for walks.

Or even the 6 week olds. :rolleyes:

EXACTLY.....that's why I will NEVER pay these huge prices from ANY breeder. I don't care how long the "health guarantee is for" and I don't care how wonderful they are either. These high prices they want you to pay will basically pay for a second puppy EASY. If not for three or even four "replacements".....if your like most dog lovers, you "instantly" upon buying a puppy, feel, along with love, a strong since of responsibility for the little life you've chosen to take home as "yours forever" After all, you're the one stuck at the vets office looking like a loser if you don't do something to save it.................and they ALL know that. Yeah, I'm looking at it strickly from a paying customers viewpoint....but..I'm the buyer and I'd rather pay for "one puppy at a time" and cross my fingers. I've done that all these years and I haven't had a sick dog yet. Lucky? I don't think so. Dog breeders have their agenda...and I have mine. There ARE no guarantees....no matter WHO you buy your dog from.....not health, weight, appearance.....guesstimations are really all you get.....especially with yorkies.

I've got to disagree with you on this, I bought a purebred from a byb, and it had inherited genetic defects from bad breeding practices. The emotional costs always outweigh the financial costs. A good breeder stands behind her breeding, she will return your money, she will emotionally support you in any decision you make. Even good breeders may produce sickly dogs, its what she does that determines whether she should continue breeding. I'm not sure people understand the importance of healthy dog, until they get a sickly one. When you purchase from a breeder, you are telling them you support their breeding program, and you think they are doing what right. It up to puppy buyers to put bad breeders out of business.

Hi Nancy!!...well..you have a point. If they take complete responsibility for any inherited genetic defects that show up in a dog and any and all subsequent treatments, tests and medications necessary...for the entire life of the dog.................I read on another thread where some guy bought a dog from a pet shop and it ended up with a shunt. So far, he's paid out $10,000.00 in vet bills for treatment to save the dogs life. That wasn't a typo....That's in addition to the hefty price I'm sure he paid for the dog. I'm sure anywhere between, what, 1,500 and 3,800? Anyway, he thought the dog would be healthy afterwards and is presently very dissapointed because the dog has to be on a special diet the rest of it's life and will still be under threat of getting sick again and dying for the rest of his life .....I'm sure he will have LOTS of subsequent visits to the vet as a result of the shunt. I feel really sorry for him.

Therein lies the difference. If a breeder cannot be bothered to place their own puppies, or even care remotely to know where they will end up, they are not going to stand behind their breedings. Bottom line is they don't care about anything but the money lining their pockets.

I am always surprised too -- maybe some of the states do not require Health Certificates. Florida does and they must have vaccines and wormings listed on them.

Florida has a pretty good Puppy Lemon Law. I can't believe how many breeders in Florida have Health Guarantees that are showing much LESS than the law requries. In Florida a BUYER has the right to choose what course of action to take if (a) a puppy is found unfit for sale due to illness or disease (including internal parasites) within 14 days of sale and (b) a puppy is found unfit for sale due to genetic or inherited condition within one year of sale, the buyer may choose one of the following:
(a) The right to return the animal and receive a refund of the purchase price, including the sales tax, and reimbursement for reasonable veterinary costs directly related to the veterinarian’s examination and certification that the dog or cat is unfit for purchase pursuant to this section and directly related to necessary emergency services and treatment undertaken to relieve suffering;
(b) The right to return the animal and receive an exchange dog or cat of the consumer’s choice of equivalent value, and reimbursement for reasonable veterinary costs directly related to the veterinarian’s examination and certification that the dog or cat is unfit for purchase pursuant to this section and directly related to necessary emergency services and treatment undertaken to relieve suffering; or
(c) The right to retain the animal and receive reimbursement for reasonable veterinary costs for necessary services and treatment related to the attempt to cure or curing of the dog or cat. Reimbursement for veterinary costs may not exceed the purchase price of the animal.

There are a lot more requirements and protections in the Puppy Lemon Law: http://www.lemonlawact.com/floridas-...lorida-277.htm Buyers should always check your state laws to see if you have similar protections.

Too many FL breeders have Health Guarantees that do not give these options to the buyer, which is highly unethical.

Yeah....I guess you can call the reputable breeders the "doggy saints" of the world. Shoot, I've been sitting here thinking that if a good breeder is lucky to break even financially on their breeding business, and over the years, have even just a few liver shunt puppies out there in the world that they are under contract for all medical expenses for the duration of that particular dog's life. Well....all I can say is, I imagine that is quite the drain on the personal finances of that breeder outside of the breeding program.....and there are more life threatening defects other than shunts of which I'm sure are floating around too. It's mind-boggling. If that guy who bought the dog from the pet shop that had the liver shunt had bought his dog from a reputable breeder, then that breeder would be paying the $10,000.00 for the surgery and vet bill (minus the, say 2,000 for the dog)....and that's just the initial cost. The dog is young and will probably be going to the vet all the time as a result of the shunt. So, who knows how much of a loss a breeder would be in for....incredible!! It sounds like in order to be able to be a really good breeder that somebody has to have one heck of a job and not mind a whole lot of "that" money going towards other people's dogs.

You said it! I wish giardia and coccidia were the issues I had in such a scenario, even if the whip worms were the extent, I'd shush! So true the basics are a serious issue but I think they prelude to the overll issues in the breeders out there. BTW this breeder told me she only bred AKC standard Yorkies and had gotten a Parti to see how it went in her kennel...

Elvis was 2 years old when I got him breeder told me she had to re-home him because he grew too large for her breeding program and she was devastated to have to do this...blah blah blah...she sent me a basic contract I screened her like no one's business! What I missed like like the broad side of a barn was despite her giving me all the right answers, it was all just what she said completely unverifiable and I bought it and Elvis hook line and sinker.

Elvis arrive to me (yes he was shipped) with worms, bad teeth, which were immediately caught at the vet well check-well these were all correctable he at 2 years old needed a deep scrapping something he shouldn't need until about 5 but my vet said if he'd even gone a few more months he'd be looking at decay to the point of tooth removal-he had whip worms-they aren't in my area-period I only had him a couple days he had worms at all stages of life-the breeder said they are common and that even though her contract said she dewormed regularly (apparently they get in the grass/soil and reinfest), she must have missed it and his teeth were fine my vet was over reacting. This was beyond the fact he was supposed to arrive with his limited AKC registration and later she said no I sold him as a pet-no registration, she guaranteed a completely copy of his vet records to arrive with him since she had gotten him at 9 weeks-no records arrived, not to even mention he came with X & O red looking kibble (her excuse was she forgot food and bought some junk food at the grocery store on the way to the airport) oh and he had no fleas but had loads of flea pooh in his fur and a horrid pup cut! I let it all go....after a couple weeks Elvis was back at the vet-all his joints make a LOUD popping sound regularly when he gets up and down-she was diagnosed with an 'early onset' arthritis...I contacted her again...

Finally Elvis had three seizures-I was freaking out I'd never had an animal with seizures his seizures are different from a typical seizure-he goes stiff and completely hard he doesn't shake or go grand mal- he was diagnosed with cluster seizures (a form of epilepsy) he has multiple seizure at one time. Again I contacted the breeder who seemed distressed-what did he get into was her first response to me! First the worms were probably from me now his seizures! Then she let me know she'd just had a female of hers give birth to two pups from him...WHAT!? he was too big for her females! We went back and forth I told her no matter what I couldn't return him she offered another pup...it turned into a mess in the end all I wanted was his previous vet records...she finally told me to take the issue to court I was only entitled to a replacement pup...if Elvis died, I returned him, or I sent him to her for her vet to examine and she deemed our contract enforceable...

So (sorry for the long post here) despite the contract having a health guarantee, an assurance of flea treatment, appropriate foods having been fed, worming, etc

I got a 2 year old dog with cluster seizures, bad teeth, worms, arthritis, no vet records at 2 years old, and no AKC paperwork for him in my name...my recourse to sue someone and despite the contract we have to go by the state law there and the contract stipulates "replacement pup," she even suggested he be put down if the arthritis was so bad-WHAT!-he just needed glucosamine and cosaquin supplements for it!

How could I as a human being send him back? I could have avoided buying him had I known, but send him back considering-well Elaine Shelborne of Shelborne's Yorkies (Dleaware) pulled one over on me...buyer beware. Too bad here isn't better authority to monitor breeding-it comes down to buyers controlling the market, we need to be less naive. I fell for a sad story of a nice lady who needed to re-home her stud so she could better care for the dogs useful in her breeding program...so naive,

I never sued her, but I've thousands in vet bills for him, two revolving balances on credit cards and a costly monthly expenses in his dietary and prescription costs. Never heard about what became of the two pups she said she'd place them in homes and warning the people but I'm guessing she sold them saying nothing, considering she still has Elvis listed as in her breeding program to this day.

Oh and I wasn't aware of her web site until after I got Elvis-i could have better seen a clearer picture if I'd seen it...FYI everyone else...
Shelborne's Yorkies
Sorry for the long post, but that's my experience of how little issues how a HUGE underlying issues in irresponsible breeding by Greeders. This lady remains an AKC breeder-she didn't breed Elvis, Terry Castonguay did known apparently for having serious health issues in her line, either or AKC breeder certification doesn't mean squat in reality, they do not get involved in buyer seller issues.

I just wanted to clarify I never asked her to pay for vet bills or return my money I literally went back to what do we do here based on your contract and that was after she refused to send his full vet records or released them to my vet...honestly she should have refunded all I paid for Elvis and considered him "petted out" in cases of accidental (every breeder even the best will have a sick pup at some point) health issues genetic disprders, well the purchase price should be REFUNDED, (maybe a replacement but) what about buyers like me-I have a sick dog for the rest of his life-he has special needs, extensive costs I can't afford another puppy left alone devote the needed attention to one considering...the breeder I got Elvis from had a loop hole-her contract was for dogs she bred-she didn't breed Elvis she re-homed him to me-yes she pulled a nasty deceitful sneaky, yes I can sue her, but at what effort and what extent of more costs from me...

I vote the standard is refunded purchase price not vet bill coverage a responsible breeder would consider the dog sick and petted out and leave it to the buyer to continue medical care or to send the pup (dog) back. A replacement pup-well that seems nice, I almost got one and would have if the breeder didn't change her mind-but in reality I would have been worse off with a replacement pup. Sorry i just had to add that I think that's the solution that would work best in situations like this-with minor issues that require de-worming and antibiotics...well if it was assured such was to be done in the contract-sorry breeders pay up for the vet bills. Wish the AKC had more authority and made breeders use AKC contracts or something.

How scarey!!...If even the most knowledgeable can be fooled out of literally THOUSANDS and be contractually scammed!! I don't know people. I don't believe in puppy mills...would never buy from one unless I was tricked..... I wouldn't buy a puppy from a pet store....never have and never will because I've known for years that they sell puppy mill dogs. In fact, Daisy is the first dog I have "ever" bought. I used to ride, train and show horses and of course, I was out and about in the country all the time. "That's" where all MY animals came from.....the side of the road. All lived long, healthy lives...one lived 16 years. Thought he'd never die. I never had to take any of my "orphans" to the vet except for their annual wellness check until they were really old and nearing the end. "How ironic". There has to exist a happy medium somewhere. Where you can get your money back if your dog is really unhealthy, but you don't have to pay literally thousands of dollars for a pet to love. I don't think pets should be the "right" of the wealthiest only. Then we are regressing back to 19th century thinking where the wealthy dictate to the working middle class people what they can and cannot "do" or "have".

I use to believe that good dogs could be found a pet shops, and of course anything possible, but pet shop dogs usually come from puppy mills. The pet store has a huge mark up on dogs. Responsible breeders would never sell to a pet store because they have no control on who buys a dog. A responsible breeder wants to make sure the human is a good match for the dog, and can provide it the care it needs. Pet shops will sell to anyone with the money. A backyard breeder's puppies are probably no healthier than a millers dogs, but at least the breeding dogs are kept in humane conditions.

I agree with you on all you say. When I bought Daisy from the backyard breeder. I knew before I called her up that if I bought a puppy from her that there wouldn't be any guarantees because that isn't what you get from that type of breeder.....and at least she didn't bother to try and make me "think" any differently. I mean I knew it was one of those deals where someone has a pretty nice female dog and knows someone that has a pretty nice male dog and they get together and say "Oh...wouldn't they make the cutest pups?!.......She knew before I went there I wasn't looking to pay more than 300.00 for one of her dogs. Both of Daisy's parents are pet quality yorkies and only have limited registrations on them....I didn't care because I don't ever want to breed a dog of mine anyway. I had done some research on yorkshires before I ever inquired about buying one. I bought some books and talked to the vet at petsmart that told me NOT to get a "teacup" or "tiny" and why. When I went to the breeder's home, the puppies were in a play pen in the middle of the living room. The momma dog was the "only" dog around on the property and clearly the family pet. The home was clean and nice as were the surroundings. "She" was an RN and asked me "loads" of questions. She asked me where I was going to keep Daisy, what I did for a living, where I worked, my hours, how long it had been since I had owned a dog or had a puppy, and even reminded me about how destructive puppies could be......anything to discourage me from buying...she seemed to do. She also had shot records from a very nice vet clinic here in Waco on each of the pups, had had all the dew claws removed and tails docked and told me about hypoglycemia and nutrical and what they were currently feeding on....which was one of the better foods. She had clearly taken care of the puppies. I didn't see the daddy dog but she told me about him and who's dog he was. He was a 5 1/2 pounder and the momma, Gigi, was a 6 1/2 pounder. After I had owned Daisy for about a month, she called me up, out of the blue, to make sure I still wanted the dog. I like raising a pup because I know how it's life began, even if it was dumped on the side of the road at 8 weeks....and Daisy had a good start and she's leading a great life now. I LOVE my smart, beautiful little girl.

Not necessarily. I've seen some conditions of BYB's that would turn your stomach. The only reason they weren't legally classified as mills is they kept just under the volume that would trigger having to register. Obviously, not all are kept in squalid conditions, but it isn't safe to assume that your BYB dog had a better start than the one from the mill.

That always shocks me too! I got Jackson from a BYB but I went into her house to see the puppies and he never had worms, fleas, parasites, kennel cough, or any of those other things I often hear about puppies having. I never even had to use a dewormer on him or anything. So it always blows my mind reading about how poor that people can take care of puppies.

Yeah, you're right. That's why I always preach, go to the home of the breeder and see for yourself.

You're right. That can happen too. I wouldn't have bought Daisy if it had looked like she was coming from a "white trash" joint filled with "white trash" people. It sounds like, no matter what you do, what you might know, or how careful you try to be, you can still get "ripped".....and like I stated in an earlier post..........all this is "scary"........especially if you're contemplating dumping a few "thou" into some strangers hand.