How many is too much?- Animal hoarding
 

I've been hearing the term "animal hoarding" for a while now and have seen it on TV. My some cases are just terrible and really heart breaking. How do you know when you have too many? To some people having 3 dogs is alot, to some 10 is alot.

Not pointing fingers at anyone and just picking a random number here but wouldn't lets say 10 dogs be kind of "hoarding" even if you were taking care of them? Or is if if you have like 20+ animals and don't take care of them is when it is hoarding?

I have watched the hoarding shows and there is some hoarders who are organized but still hoarders so how do you know and label them?

I have 7 if you count my cats which honestly I dont.
I have 4 dogs and on some days they are a lot.

I always hear about rescues and my first response is to take them in. My husband keeps our house sane by saying no most of the time. He does let me help with Rescue Placement and temporary fostering though.

For all cat lovers out there (and I am one), I do not count my cats because they have their own agenda. THey choose when they come spend time with us and it is mostly at the end of the evening when the house has settled or when we go to bed.

Our dogs need/require more interaction it seems. But I love giving them it so it is a win-win situation I think.

Well, to me, animal hoarding is when you have more animals than you can truly honestly care for properly. A person could have 10 dogs that are all spayed/neutered, get the proper exercise that they require (each of them individually), get training, walks, proper nutrition, etc, is NOT a hoarder in my eyes. As long as you can afford them and they are being fulfilled, I don't see the problem.

To me, it seems more unfair even if someone only owns 2-4 dogs, but if they are never walked, or trained, etc, that's worse to me. I am dogsitting this weekend for a stylist at my moms salon who has 4 dogs... two Pugs who are 8 months old and 2 Dachshunds who are 12 and 13. They live in a small townhouse with no backyard, they work from 8-5 where the dogs stay in the crate, sometimes longer, and dogs get put back in their crate at 7:30-9am the next morning. They are only out of their crates on most days from 5-7:30pm. That's it. They don't get sufficient exercise, these are the most HYPER dogs I have EVER met. I can't even put their collar on them. They tug and tug and choke themselves. If a person walks by, the Dachshunds pull all the way out on their annoying flexi lead and try to bite their ankles and nip at other dogs. They are never calm, they are fighting, barking, marking all over things, all the boys are unaltered as far as I can tell (3 boys/1 girl), but it's not their fault they're like that. To me, that is worse than someone owning 10+ dogs who are being taken care of properly. I could never live in a house where dogs were behaving like that all the time. I wish I had more time with these dogs actually because I'd love to implement some training into their lives, even a basic sit would be nice.

I personally wouldn't want more dogs than I could walk at once. What I mean by that is, if I have 4-6 dogs, I probably can't walk them all together and that would bother me. I don't like leaving a few at home, and only taking a couple, etc. 3 would probably be limit but 2 seems perfect to me. Of course just one is okay for now too :)

I think a big part of hoarding is the "not taking care of it" element. If someone did have 10 dogs and was providing correct vet care and emotional care and walking them and everything I don't think they would be considered a hoarder. However, if someone else had 10 dogs and wasn't providing proper care they might be a hoarder. I think that major element is that they use the dog (or other object) as an emotional crutch for something. I'm not sure if there is an exact number.

I don't think there is one number to fit all people or situations. I guess hoarding would be taking on more than you can FULLY provide needs. For instance, I have 3 and have had 4 dogs at a time. For me, that is about all I can do the way I think it should be done -- not only providing quality food, toys, vet care but more importantly providing one on one attention and making sure their social needs are met. My folks have more but they don't goout much. They do give just as much one on one time with each of theirs as I do. I have seen some with 2 dogs that never give them the time of day. Maybe I am going outside the hoarding definition and looking at providing for or neglecting.

Here is a definition: Pathological or compulsive hoarding is a specific type of behavior characterized by:
•acquiring and failing to throw out a large number of items that would appear to have little or no value to others (e.g., papers, notes, flyers, newspapers, clothes)
•severe cluttering of the person's home so that it is no longer able to function as a viable living space
•significant distress or impairment of work or social life

-First one does not apply to our Yorkies!
-Second, I guess if we had over 10, that would make living space less viable, but again it depends on the individual -- how much space do they have, large house, large yard? Small house or apartment, no yard?
-Third, I think this might be the most telling of the definition. If there are so many as to cause stress, distress, or impair a person's work or social life -- then that would be too many. That number is going to be different in each circumstance. Some dogs are higher maintenance than others, some people have more responsibility and/or drama in their lives. So, how many dogs one can care for adequately without disrupting their everyday routine, is going to be different.

Right now I think Im an animal horder honestly. I had 2 yorkies and 1 cat. Then in the Spring there was this cat hanging around in our yard so I feed her and she ended up sticking around. She ended up being pregnant and had 4 kittens. I didnt find homes for any of them. Then My cat got out right before we were going to get her spayed and got pregnant. She had 5 kittens so now I have 11 cats and 2 yorkies sigh. I think I have homes for 2 of the 5 new kittens. We are going to keep 4 cats and take the rest to a cat rescue. This has taught me a lesson about timely spay and neutering. I never want to be in this situation again

I honestly think that hoarding is more of a psychological disorder. When it stems from depression, it can lead to disorder and unhealthy living conditions, high ammonia levels from the animal urine, etc. When a family has the time, money, energy, and space for animals, there isn't a number that is considered hoarding, IMO. With our schedule, two is plenty with two kids, but I think I could handle 4 when I retire. (:

agreed. sorry, i didn't read yours before posting. we are on the same page. (:

Everyone's situation is different. I have 3 yorkies, and with one being a senior who gets sick often, and takes 2 types of monthly medication, I know I am at my limit, especially since I lost my "day job" in July.

I would like to believe we are good Yorkie Parents, we feed premium food (Wellness), and only natural snacks. If it came down to it, I would feed my dogs before I fed myself, and I know you all are the same way.

I want every puppy I see, and would have a dozen if I could afford it, but I can't. As we all know, the initial cost of a puppy is only a token of what it will require to to raise them. Vet bills, grooming, food, all of that is a nice chunk of money for 3. So, I get my "fix" by oohing and awwing over everyones pictures on YT!

I only have 2 of our own at the moment (Beamer and Lil Bit).
We have had more at one time. Used to have 5 dogs (3 Lhasa's and 2 Yorkies - I used to breed Lhasas) at one time. They got old and went to Rainbow Bridge. Before we lost the last Lhasa we got Lil Bit and we started helping with dacshie rescue and fostered Dachsies, and some of them we gave permanent homes to. At one time we had 4 dacshunds and Lil Bit. The last dachsie went to Rainbow Bridge last June (She was around 17 years old according to the vet, and we had her for the last 10 years of her life (she was a puppy mill seizure). So, we were left with just Lil Bit, who was my husband's baby. I couldn't stand not having a lil one snuggling up against me in the night (the dachsie used to snuggle up against my back), so I bought Beamer (did look for a rescue first).
Now we also have 2 foster Yorkies, Reno and Clover.

A few years ago we could afford to have more than 2 dogs, now with my husband retired and in poor health and me not working, and my health is not good either, 2 is our limit.
But we have room and love to spare, so we fostered Reno and Clover.
We can afford to feed Reno and Clover and give them a few extras to spoil them, but would be unable to take on extra vet bills, so fostering is perfect for us and perfect for them:)
And when they find the perfect forever homes we will be able to take in another rescue.

But 2 is the limit for us on owning Yorkies.

I have seven dogs and three cats. I feed premium food (primal raw at the moment) and four of the dogs are under the care of an internist, so I feel I am getting the best vet care I possibly can. Oh, and one is also under the care of an opthamologist in addition to the internist. We don't live in a mansion, but I do have a home on 3/4 of an acre with a fenced yard. The yard is clean, I can't stand it when people don't clean up after their dogs and I KNOW my home is cleaner and neater than most homes with two or three children. Also, my yard is one of the nicest in my neighborhood.

My cats live inside, but have a screened porch to enjoy the outdoors in and a cat tower to enjoy. Two of the dogs are in agility classes and two of the four senior dogs have agility titles. Five of the dogs are rescues, including Lizzy. Six are Italian Greyhounds. I don't have children, so I guess they do fulfill some maternal instinct/feelings in me. I love taking care of them.

I had someone at work "jokingly" call me a hoarder, to which I replied I thought she was more of one for having three pets who weren't very well cared for by my standards. When you say unkind things to people, don't expect kind replies. :mad: Her dog spends it's days outside in the backyard and because of barking all night, gets stuck in a crate all night. Her cats run loose and she had one disappear and the other died at a young age from unknown causes, then she went out and replaced them.

My dogs are clean, live in the house and are well behaved. They get their nails trimmed, teeth brushed and ears cleaned regularly. Lizzy (YT) is bathed once a week. They are feed 2x a day from clean bowls. There are also three large bowls of water that get changed at least every day, but usually twice per day.

I don't consider myself a hoarder. I consider myself someone who loves animals and enjoys spending the majority of my time with them, because with as many as I have, it is a lifestyle choice and there's no way a person can take care of this many unless they spend the time to do it. Most of my closest friends are like me, too. :D

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Great post! That is the definition of a NON-hoarder! lol.

I think the point of when it negatively impacts your ability to care for yourself in addition to the animals is correct. I saw the animal hoarding episode on yorkies. She used to be a breeder and then had something like 40-50 and they were in some cases caged and not being properly cared for, although she did love them. (sometimes love is not enough in any situation).

Hoarding of any kind is a mental illness, usually due to a loss of some sort in life and the obsessive need from that point on to not lose anything. Security and love is what hoarders are looking for. They are starting to do research that shows the propensity towards hoarding has genetic components and their brains do work differently than the norm. As in sorting and spacial perceptions.

btw, I have 4 dogs and 2 cats. no rodents...lol

OMG... I LOVE YOU!!!! I have 5 dogs... Shadow our golden, Kylie our choco. lab, Wishbone jackrussel, Twilight our Chihuahua and my beloved Yorkie Izzy and 1 cat our Ragdoll Hunter..

My house is clean and my animals are also... My little dogs get a bath every week and the big dogs about every month.. Their bedding is washing EVERY week. We feed Primal and Orijin food and also give home made treat.. We go to the Vet all the time.. And my local pet store knows me by my frist name.. I'm a stay at home mom and love it.. When my kids are at school... The animals get my attention and we go for walks... We have a HUGE yard...

When my kids get home My oldest like to take the big dogs on a run and they love it... When go to the outside Doggy park about 2 a week to get a change od pace..

I love my pets...They are like my kids.. their part of our family... I'm so glad to see that I'm not the only one :)

Like someone else said, I would call something hoarding when the owner is no longer able to properly care, feed, and give an animal a loving home. I know families that have 1 to 10 dogs or cats, and all of their animals are well taken care of. I think it becomes a problem when you start seeing neglect arise. When you see hoarders on tv, they have dogs or cats or other animals that need medical attention! That to me is hoarding.

Wow some great replies. And alot of the same views I have. We have 3 dogs, a parrot and a snake. I get the comments sometimes that I have a "petting zoo". Sometimes it is a little offensive. I don't feel we are over burdened with animals in the house and it doesn't smell like poop or urine. It does get a little overwhelming some days when things are crazy at home but we deal with it. With all this new stuff they are coming up with I was beginning to wonder what people felt animal hoarding was. I don't know what I'd say if someone said that to me. I read the one post on here, I can't believe that lady would say that. Your dogs sound like they have a wonderful home with lots of land.

We are hoping to renovate our home in the next couple years and add on a family room. More space for all of us. I wash the floors a couple times a week it seems some weeks and I vacuum almost daily too. I never feel it is "clean enough" though with three dogs in the house. Some days I feel it may be too much to keep going but I wouldn't want to trade my babies for anything.

That is *awful*. 2.5 hours out of their crates per day? Honestly, I think that is abusive. :(

BTW, most flexi leashes can lock and function as a fixed length as well.

Yep. I think weekends the husband is home so they're probably out of their crate alot more then but they also have 2 small children. And maybe the days when she's off work but she works at the salon alot it seems. They truly were the most HYPER dogs I have ever seen.

And I know about the flexi's but they still annoy me. lol. Especially when the dogs aren't trained. Flexi's are great when used with the right dogs and in the right hands but most of the time I find them annoying. Don't get me wrong, I use a flexi practically every day at my house because we live on 3 acres so I either use our 50 ft rope lead or the flexi when outdoors but we have no neighbors or anyone to bother, and he never lunges or pulls on the flexi, etc, so it's not really a big problem with him. He's super easy to reel back in.

ASPCA definition-

What is an animal hoarder?
Animal hoarding is a complex and intricate public health and community issue. Its effects are far-reaching and encompass mental health, animal welfare and public safety concerns.

The following criteria are used to define animal hoarding:

•More than the typical number of companion animals

•Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter and veterinary care, with this neglect often resulting in starvation, illness and death

•Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care and the impact of that failure on the animals, the household and human occupants of the dwelling
This definition comes from The Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium, an independent group of academic researchers based in Massachusetts. The full definition and more info can be found at Animal hoarding.
It’s important to note that not everyone who has multiple animals is an animal hoarder. A person may have a dozen animals, and all are spayed and neutered and provided with regular vet care and a sanitary environment. This person would not be an animal hoarder. The common signs of an animal hoarder are deteriorating conditions and denial or lack of insight that there is a problem. Animal hoarders often insist that all their animals are happy and healthy when there are clear signs of illness.

ASPCA | Animal Hoarding

Animal Hoarding Project
 

Definitions of a Hoarder

There's no such thing as "the typical" animal hoarder. Hoarders can be all ages, from several socio-economic backgrounds, and are both male and female. Some animal hoarders deny that they are hoarders, however, the most prominent psychological feature of these individuals is that the pets become central to the hoarder’s core identity.
Hoarders are deeply attached to their pets and find it extremely difficult to let their pets go. They typically cannot comprehend that they are harming their pets by failing to provide them with proper care.

They maintain a state of denial because they emphasize to themselves and to others that they acquire a high and unmanageable number of animals because they love animals and the animals need their love. Often, they confuse good intentions with their actions.
There are three key indicators that define someone as an animal hoarder:
• The person has more than the typical number of animals in the home.
• The person has an inability to provide even the minimum standard of care related to diet, cleanliness, shelter and veterinary care.
• The person is in a state of denial regarding his/her inability to provide this minimum care and denies the impact this has on the animals and other people that live in the home.
(Dr. Gary Patronek 2010)


If you would like more information about animal hoarding, please visit our website

Animal Hoarding Project

Well I have 4 dogs, 15 cats, 12 cockatiels and 2 guinea pigs. All of our animals are either spayed or neutered, well fed and vet cared for. We have a house with a fenced in yard for the dogs and my cats are all indoor they hang out in the finished basement or upstairs with us. We started out with 4 birds and they laid eggs. We were so bonded with the new chicks that we didnt have the heart to give them away. We found our guinea pigs where somebody had left them by the trash bins. We love all of our animals and they are all given the best. I don't know if that makes us a hoarder but if it does, I'm proud to be one.

I agree with that in most hoarder situations it has to do with mental illness and the lack of care.
I have 4 indoor dogs, 3 indoor cats, (all spayed/neutered) 1 indoor rabbit, 7 hermit crabs and 2 small turtles..and all are very well taken care of.. My house is spot less and I spend alot of my time keeping it clean because of the amount of animal we have. Anyone who has walked in my house has said, wow you have alot of animals but you wouldnt know it. I have been in friends houses who only own one cat or a dog and the house smells like wet dog or a nasty cat box. I dont consider my self a hoarder but I am at my limit.

Definitely not a hoarder. Definitely a great mom!:bravo: