How accurate are CKC registrations?
 

I've got a co-worker who purchased a yorkie from a BRB here in GA. The puppy is ckc registered. Registration is important to her because she wanted to breed her (I know, I know- I'm working on trying to convince her other wise!) However, my friend is now convinced that the pup isn't a purebred due to the size and face shape. She's waiting on DNA results and has already said she is going to sue the breeder if she finds out the pup isn't a purebred :(

I know nothing about CKC standards or how they admit dogs. So I'm wondering, is this something that can be "fudged"?

from what I have heard, the CKC will register just about anything.

I've heard the same..they are pretty lax on registration.

IMO, it is a worthless, totally worthless registration. According to the CKC website, all you have to do is fill out a registration application and sending in a registration from an approved list, which included ACA and APRI, two other worthless registries, or, an this is a quote from the CKC website: 2.Dogs over 6 months of age which have no previous Registration history may be registered by providing 2 witness signatures attesting to the purebred status of the dog along with 3 photos (front,left and right) of the dog to confirm it is ‘of proper breed type’ as defined by our current CKC Registration Rules and Regulations.Canine Registration Applications are available in PDF format from our web site. So basically, the dog doesn't have to be pure bred, just look pure bred.

IMO, your friend got took.

I know a lady who, for lack of any better term, is a BRB. Her female is AKC but her male is unpapered. To get around AKC regulations, she is going the CKC route. She believes she will get the same amount of money for CKC as she would for AKC. If people only understood the different standards between the two.

Sue the breeder for what? Not doing her own research. Studying your lines should be one of the very many first things of breeding. Buyer beware. Your friend really needs to look at the proper ways of being a reputable breeder and finding the right breeding stock....... She started out wrong and needs to take this as a lesson to be learned. Please tell her about YT. :)

Breeze- I don't know what her "grounds" would be, other than bait and switch. I agree that if she was even thinking of doing breeding at some point that she should have done more research (note: I am totally against her breeding because I believe she's doing it for all the wrong rea$on$). It's a shame, because this little girl is just a doll, very sweet and loving. It's too bad she can't just love her for what she is rather than resenting her for what she may not be.

I did tell her about this site, but she's one of those types of people who "knows" better than everyone else (ok- now that I've said that, watch her join the site and see that I put that up here **blush**)

CKC has gotten a bad rep....it is the breeders who untruthfully use them that are wrong............and for everyone's information now...to register a dog CKC...you now have to have 2 pics of each the dam, sire and dog in question in order to ckc them............except for newborn pups....but even then if neither parent is already CKC you have to show pics..........they dont require DNA.......unless they question a dam or sire........but they do try their best otherwise to have a registration as truthful as they can.............it is bad people who have given CKC a bad rep.......not CKC.............ok i will get off my soap box now.

i think it would be very hard to ""look"" purbred without being..........look at some of the "AKC" yorkies out there now..........they dont look purebred either...but oh my they are cause AKC says so..............it all boils down to honesty..........CKC is no worse or better than any other registry.

What proof is there that the pictures belong to the dogs being registered? AKC requires DNA if 4 litters a year. As far as I am concerned all puppies should be DNA'd.

I agree that is boils down to honesty but at least AKC will cancel the registrations if they are proven bogus. Will CKC go after the liars and the cheats? Will they cancel out the registrations?

I have to agree with Breeze. Although it doesn't excuse the breeder's actions if it turns out she is knowingly being dishonest, your friend should have done her research and taken these precautions in advance. Especially if she has been planning on breeding from the start. She needs to accept some of the blame herself and look at it as a valuable lesson learned.

I have to agree with this as well, sort of to an extent anyway. I do feel like CKC is too lax with their registration, to the extreme. As a result of dishonest breeders. However, that doesn't mean that EVERY CKC breeder is dishonest and contrarily, it doesn't mean that every AKC breeder IS honest. You can have dishonest breeders with any registry. It's important not to base your decision of registry alone but rather that you know what you are looking for when selelcting a dog/breeder.

My Daisy is CKC. She is 6.5 pounds and all yorkie. I got to meet both her parents. I didn't plan to breed, she has been spayed and is a totally terrific companion. I would rather have a healthy CKC puppy than a sickly AKC puppy mill puppy. No offence to the puppies just the puppy mills.

i agree with all that has been said to a point....yes it is great to have them DNA'd....and i do wish CKC would do that ............but also..........CKC will register a biewer here in the states.............AKC will not...........and splitter puppies have only CKC and one or 2 biewer registries..........what im saying is ...just cause there are a few things that need changed in how CKC does things.........doesnt give people the right to say they are bad........just My personal opinion.

i agree....when it is all said and done...most and foremost is the health and well being of the dogs.........registrations, pedigrees, lines, and looks all take a backseat to health and happiness.

There are 4 registries for Biewers in the US and 50 in Germany. I would never register a Biewer with the CKC. IMHO.

I have six dogs of my own and four of them are rescues, so I am not too concerned with registries for my pets. I'd rather have a healthy puppy, period. However, if I were to pay good money for a puppy, with a registration, I would rather not pay for one from a registry where a breeder just has to send in pictures and fill out an application to get a registered dam and sire, and hence, registered puppies. The whole point of the registries is not to say your dog is registered, but to have the history of all the dogs in your dog's line.

I can also say that at least the AKC really tries to be the voice for the health of dogs and responsible breeding. DNA testing was one way they have evolved to protect the registry. But that's not all, the AKC also has many performance events. You can even register a mixed breed dog with the AKC, as long as he/she is spayed so you can compete with the dog in performance events.

I didn't see anything on the CKC website about health and the CKC's committment to the health of dogs. The AKC has a Canine Health Foundation set up to fund canine health studies. The YTCA is an AKC breed club and they too have a health committee that directs where funds go for health studies that will help yorkies. See http://www.ytca.org/health_centermessage.pdf My other dogs are Italian Greyhounds and the IGCA is supporting research for PRA, Epilepsy, vitreous degeneration and chryptorchidism. They have also set up a health database where they are trying to get owners and breeders to share information about IGs affected with certain conditions. Its not perfect, but at least most of the AKC breed clubs are also contributing to the health of the breed as a whole. Heck if you click on clubs on the AKC website, the first item in the list is "Breed Rescue Groups." I couldn't find anything about rescue on the CKC website.

I'm sure you did your puppy research and got your puppy from a nice person. And heck, I can say I'd rather have a healthy AKC puppy than a sickly CKC puppymill puppy, or ACA or APRI mill puppy. The AKC isn't perfect, but if you compare the two, they are the platinum standard and way better than the other registries, be it CKC, ACA, or APRI. All of which register puppy mill dogs.

I shouldn't have been so blunt in saying the CKC registry is worthless, I'm sure that offended many people who have CKC registered puppies, and I am sorry for that, but I really can't see the point of a registry if all you have to do is take pictures and fill out an application. It does undermine the integrity of the whole registry, IMO.

Every one is entitled to their own opinions. I respect them but I don't have to agree with them. Evey thing I post is just that, my opinion. I am no expert in AKC, CKC, APRI etc... I was just saying that since I didn't plan on breeding or showing that registration really doesn't matter to me. Heck I didn't even send in the paper work for Daisy's registration. I have an AKC registered Boxer. It's just not that big of an issue to me. I don't discriminate. Also have a few strays that I support. I love them all.

I agree with you on that. My yorkie has his AKC papers and I just never sent them in. He's the love of my life and the papers won't add or take away anything.

However, if I was seriously interested and invested in finding a good quality yorkie, and registration was a top priority, I would stay away from any breeder that uses CKC (not canadian), APRI, or any of the alternative registries. From what the CKC website says, a buyer can be easily duped into thinking their pup is a purebred. My boyfriend has a morkie (yorkie maltese mix) that looks EXACTLY like a yorkie. He has ears that stand, his coloring is just right, and what's really appealing to most unsuspecting buyers, he's tiny (around 4 lbs). If my bf's family wanted to, they can get two friends to sign as witnesses saying that the dog is purebred, turn in pictures, and viola! His morkie is a purebred "registered" yorkie. Even the pictures of the sire and dam aren't that much of a protection. They could easily send in pics of a borrowed set of parents just for the registration.

Where does it state that on their site? All I can find is:
"Dogs over 6 months of age which have no previous Registration history may be registered by providing 2 witness signatures attesting to the purebred status of the dog along with 3 photos (front,left and right) of the dog to confirm it is ‘of proper breed type’ as defined by our current CKC REGISTRATION RULES & REGULATIONS"

Which states the following:

5. The CANINE Registration Application must be used to register dogs whose  parents are not registered with CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB. The dog owner must complete the application and provide a copy of registration papers from another kennel club (approved by CKC) as proof of his/her dog being purebred. If other kennel club papers are not available, the dog owner must provide two witnesses who can verify the accuracy and truthfulness of the information listed on the application. When using the witness option, your dog must be at least 6 months of age and you must submit 3 photos (front, left & right) of your dog with the application. If any of the information listed on the application or the  photos submitted are challenged, the dog owner agrees to bring forth said witnesses.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the CKC- My new li'l girl (first yorkie & first small dog ever for that matter lol) is CKC and for what it's worth I'm an obedience/agility/SAR person who believes in overall abilty as well as "healthy" confirmation guidelines (another story in itself lol).
I'm not knocking any registry at this point as long as the pups are healthy and happy. I've shared my life with Neapolitan mastiffs for the past 15 years, going to the European breeders and checking them out in person and use the registration from their country/countries of origin (Italy ENCI-FCI and Hungary MEOE-FCI).

Bottom line is, there are "shady" breeders in EVERY registry- NOT just the CKC, APRI, etc.- Sadly, NONE are exempt, not even the AKC. Do your homework- check the breeder out thoroughly before you fall in love with the puppy... Just sayin'

Where does it state that on their site? All I can find is:
"Dogs over 6 months of age which have no previous Registration history may be registered by providing 2 witness signatures attesting to the purebred status of the dog along with 3 photos (front,left and right) of the dog to confirm it is ‘of proper breed type’ as defined by our current CKC REGISTRATION RULES & REGULATIONS"

Which states the following:

5. The CANINE Registration Application must be used to register dogs whose parents are not registered with CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB. The dog owner must complete the application and provide a copy of registration papers from another kennel club (approved by CKC) as proof of his/her dog being purebred. If other kennel club papers are not available, the dog owner must provide two witnesses who can verify the accuracy and truthfulness of the information listed on the application. When using the witness option, your dog must be at least 6 months of age and you must submit 3 photos (front, left & right) of your dog with the application. If any of the information listed on the application or the photos submitted are challenged, the dog owner agrees to bring forth said witnesses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in NO WAY knocking the CKC- My new li'l girl (first yorkie & first small dog ever for that matter lol) is CKC and for what it's worth I'm an obedience/agility/SAR person who believes in overall abilty as well as healthy confirmation guidelines (another story in itself lol).
I'm not knocking any registry at this point as long as the pups are healthy and happy. I've shared my life with Neapolitan mastiffs for the past 15 years, going to the European breeders and checking them out *in person* and use the registration from their country/countries of origin (Italy ENCI-FCI and Hungary MEOE-FCI).

Bottom line is, there are "shady" breeders in EVERY registry- NOT just the CKC, APRI, etc.- Sadly, NONE are exempt, not even the AKC. Do your homework- check the breeder out thoroughly before you fall in love with the puppy... Just sayin'

DITTO!!:eek:

I personally think CKC is a joke; I could care less about papers, Roxie has no papers and I could care less, but if I ever decided I wanted a dog with papers, CKC would not be on my list period. Everyone is entitled to their own views, and that just happens to be mine. I would rather have a paperless dog than one that is CKC reg. Not trying to make anyone mad, but stating my view.

It's not the registry you have to be concerned about... it's the breeder.... registration papers are based on facts that the breeder supplies. ;)