But why can't the smaller ones be sold for LESS so you don't have to "discount" the larger ones? Why do you HAVE to sell the smaller ones at $1500? I just don't understand why they can't all be equal.

I'm seriously just asking because most breeders I see on here state they are not doing this for the money... yet charging $1500 for puppies that they know are going to be under 5lbs and giving discounts to ones they know will not?

Most breeders do sell puppies according to size, color and sex. My boys and girls are still yorkies but I have to sell the males cheaper. It is life. Does that mean my girls are overpriced... no I think my boys are underpriced.

To think someone is profiting off 500 a pup is crazy! That would not even cover my vet cost.

Buyers want TEACUPS..buyers use this term more than breeders

As I've stated before, the term "show breeder" means nothing. A backyard breeder could show, anyone can show, this means very little. I always recommend that people look for breeders who are members of the YTCA or at least follow the guidelines of the mother club. Some breed clubs have changed standard to match popular trends and this has often shown to be detrimental to the breed. The YTCA doesn't change the standard often, and are often criticized for not being trendy enough. However, until the health effects of certain traits are known, standard should be slow to change.

Just because MOST breeders do it, it doesn't make it right!

Doesn't it make it right I want a Cadillac for the price of a chevy :D

How is a fair priced determined?

My next add will be dog forsale for whatever you think is fair. I don't want to be to descriptive I might offend someone.

Now how much sense would that make?

It's not so much making a profit as it is cutting your losses. I've been breeding for close to 3 years and have yet to break even. I have yet to have a small one to sell. I had one small one, but had him sold, not delivered, before I knew he was going to be small.

Yes Nancy, these are your feelings and your beliefs, however it is not what everyone believes. Show breeders have managed to set them selves above non-show breeders, and they have done that be using "betterment of the breed" to justify their breeding.

I believe that most show breeders are ethical and would not show or breed a dog with health issues, just as I believe that most of us so called byb's who are actually "hobby breeders", are ethical and would not breed dogs with health issues.

Hobby breeders are like anyone else with a hobby, we strive to get better and better, we do it because we take pride in improving our puppies. We sell them because we cannot keep them all.

Does a show breeder sell a show prospect for more money than they sell a pet quality? Or do they sell them all at the same price? Do they charge more for Females than they do for males? Do they charge more for breeding rights?

:thumbup:

How about "ordinary yorkie for sale, make offer"

Probably shouldn't call it a yorkie either that would make it seem more valuable than a lab.

Maybe just set them out in the Walmart parking lot with a sign
"Free dogs, take one".

This line here kind of bugged me as I think the breeder that fell out of line this week was more of the type that Nancy1999 posts about below. Not a YTCA show breeder that would never do the things this breeder has done. I just wanted to add this so people know that not all show breeders have such bad ethics.

Yes and most YTCA members do not call themselves "show breeders", they say they are hobby breeder/exhibitors who are YTCA members. There is a subtle difference in terminology that some people will understand.

Their "Code of Ethics" states that they: shall not use terms such as "teacup", "tiny specialists", "doll faced", or similar terminology in their advertising. I think all breeder should strive to meet the standards given by the mother club. They should at least know about them! :D Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Code of Ethics

There have been other show/hobby exhibitor breeders that have fallen from grace.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of hobby exhibitor breeders that have been unethical, compared to the percentage of hobby non-exhibitor breeders who have been unethical.

My guess is, it would be the same. The YTCA can preach ethices, but they can not force them. If one is unethical, joining a club is not going to change them. And if one IS ethical, the lack of a club is not going to change that.

I am going to make some changes to the CYTC website to include advertising eithics. However I do not believe it is going to change how the various members conduct their business.

Yes, that's why they have to be very careful who they let in, there's always some snake that manages to fool everyone.

I'm a little disappointed that some of Yorkietalk breeders seem to be defending breeders who use terminology such as "teacups" and "purse puppies". Like I said earlier, the purpose of this thread was to educate people, especially young women that yorkies are a very active breed, and they will not be content to live happily in your purse or under your dorm bed.

Well before you add me to that group Nancy, I was telling you why some do it, I have never use the term or will. I think thats what everyone is was trying to help you figure out also, I wasn't defending them.

Not true...read their Constitution & By-Laws...they can be kicked out. Unless you have these (constitution/bylaws) in place then I think you have to be careful with the wording of "club". Otherwise I think you are a group of breeders with the same interests...that is fine but I can quarantee that the members of any of the AKC dog clubs spent a great deal of time on their constitution & bylaws...They have a board of directors to review conflicts and complaints from other members. No one single person can make any changes to their rules..they have to be voted on.

Frankly, I don't get as uptight about advertising as I do the breeders contracts...that really tells the story about who is an ethical breeder to me. I don't care if they are show breeders, hobby breeders (I hate that name by the way) or a byb....

Well good! :) I think all breeders can help other breeders to strive to be better. Just as all pet owners can help other pet owners strive to be better.

I do too, but I don't like the fact of being put in a catagory just because I respond or make a comment. You really need to read the threads and what I and others said before you make a judgement and post it that we are defending people, none of us "breeders" were defending just stating why this happens.

How did I put you in a "category", all I said was that:

I very seldom make judgments about particular breeders. My advice is to stay away from breeders who use the words, "teacups and purse puppies."

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;3000707]

I'm a little disappointed that some of Yorkietalk breeders seem to be defending breeders who use terminology such as "teacups" and "purse puppies". QUOTE]

Well since I was one of the "YT breeders" that did post in the thread, your comment was taken as putting me in the catagory as defending them, why in the world would you put that in this thread, if thats not what you were saying?

Some of the posts did seem to me to be defending breeders who used the term. I believed one person said something about

__________________

Your own posts seem to excuse it because you said

You seem to be excusing it because they are not educated, I'm saying lets educate people! I would never recommend a breeder to someone who used the excuse, "I'm not educated in the breed." Furthermore I'm talking about breeders who use the terms on their websites.

I do not condone using that terminology if one is educated to the issues. However I can understand where some older breeders see it as a descritive term rather than a marketing gimmic. To them it just means small.

They sdo not have webswite, they have probably never even seen a website.

I perosnally will not use the terms, and I intend to put some ethical selling guidlines on the Colorful Yorksire Terrier Website.

I guess this is directed to me. I don't use the terms but I do know some older good breeders that do.

I don't really care if your disappointed in me or not.. it is a freaking word

I guess my point is we need to support breeders who are educated in breeding, and I applaud you for putting ethical selling guidelines on your website.

I am not excusing it, its why they do it Nancy, they either don't know better or they just don't care. Some people have never been on YT or YTCA site which is sad. How many new people get on here an ask about a "teacup" yorkie, and once someone explains to them why there isn't one, they never use that phrase again. They have been educated.
I don't have to defend myself, or my breeding pratices to you. I know what I am and I not how I test and breed. I don't use the word and I know Melissa doesn't either. She was talking about breeders she has heard about in West Virginia.
As far as education, you bet everytime I get a call asking about a "teacup" yorkie I explain and try to educate them about not being such a thing.

January 28, 2010
If a dog is a "tea cup" than what makes him smaller?
I'm just curious why a teacup is so much more expensive if its just an improperly bred dog. ie- teacup chihuahua or teacup poodle. What makes them smaller?

"teacup" means scam label to sell the dog for a higher price

some of them are smaller and have health issues because of the irresponsible breeding practices used to achieve those small sizes

some of them are still a NORMAL weight range! But because they come from irresponsible breeders they are still at risk for health issues

some of them are LARGER than breed standard. Why? Because, there's no such thing as a "teacup" dog to begin with.. its merely a LABEL used to market the dog for a higher price tag. Bad breeders sometimes use larger dogs to avoid costs of cecarians, and just simply label the pups as "teacup".

They cost more because the breeder charges more. People are dumb enough to think that they are getting something special or extra tiny, and they are willing to pay those high price tags.

Its all a marketing scam.

how smaller dogs are achieved
breeding a small dog to a small dog.. dogs to breed are chosen based on their size tho, no regard to health or temperment

poor nutrition during pregnancy/ nursing.. the pups are basically starved to a smaller size

early cecarians so pups are delivered early.. premature puppies are smaller.. NO reputable vet will do this.

does any of this sound like it will yield healthy puppies?

And I'm warning puppy buyers:

It is interesting that you say they can be kicked out, because in another thread when I mentioned that, years ago show exhibitor hobby??????? (I don't know what you want me to call them) breeders, would destroy parti puppies for fear of being kicked out of the YTCA, I was told that was ridiculous to think that YTCA members would fear being kicked out. of course these people were arguing that parti pups were not showing up in champion litters. Which we now know that they most definitely were.


There is so much misinformation on this forum, it is very difficult for a new member to know what to believe.

Most of the misinformation is given in the heat of an argument when everyone is in attack mode and they will say anything to bring down their prey.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been attacked for some comment I have made and then later in another thread, see those same attackers on the other side of the fence.

You have always been a voice of reason, not taking any side, for the sake of peer approval. I respect your comments and advice.

OK so you don't like the term hobby breeders, non exhibitor breeders? where do we fit. Surly there has to be a better term than BYb to describe someone who tries to breed ethically but chooses not to show.

If wording is SO important, who came up with the phrase "TOY GROUP"? Wouldn't that be offenssive or give the wrong impression too? Just wondering.