Shorkie Puppie: Need some "expert" advice
 

Hello,

I have a 12-week old Shorkie (Yorkie/Shihtzu mix). She is the cutest little thing! I have a few questions and would appreciate hearing from experienced yorkie owners (I'm assuming her being a Shorkie doesn't make her too different than a Yorkie...)

1. She does the submissive peeing. I'm finding that it's generally upon greeting me when I come home from work, but does it other times as well (new people, etc.) In your experience, will she eventually grow out of this? We do NOT punish her or scold her. We simply clean it up.

2. We haven't started crate training her yet, but will in about a week or two. Is it best to start with night time crating (like 11:00 pm - 6:00 am) or a few hours during the day, first? We do have a crate in the kitchen (we keep her there with baby gates) and she's been in it a few times and doesn't seem upset by it.

3. We have two crates: first type is the type that she can only stand up and turn around and in, 2nd type is larger, wire, she can really see out of it, but bigger. My husband likes the bigger one, but I wonder if it's "too big" meaning crate training wouldn't work....?

4. For those of you away from home 8 hours a day (or longer), PLEASE share with me your potty training experiences. We seem SOOO far away from allowing her to be in parts of the house other than the kitchen. She's good about using her puppy pads...but (and it's hard to ask this question): were we naive in thinking we could have a dog when we're away from home for hours a day Mon-Fri? I mean, don't most folks who have dogs.....work?

You aren't naive. The ideal situation would be to be away no longer than 4 hours, or even better...to be able to bring them to work with you or to be able to work from home :rolleyes: But the reality is most people don't have the luxury of the last two. Most people leave their pets home alone 8-9 hours a day because they HAVE TO. Are they wrong for wanting to have a loving fur family member...NO! People leave their baby's in daycare 8-9 hours and think nothing of it. Sure the puppy is alone but baby's miss their mommy's too.

I'd try placing a radio or small TV with Animal planet playing all day (in an area where she can see it and if you have cable) to entertain her and make her fell less lonely. I know some people who have made a room for their furkids and put a TV in the room with things playing that restart for them throughout the day, which is what I will be doing. A lot of people potty box train their puppies too. That makes sense to me if you are not going to be able to be home for hours.

You'll get through this! Have hope and faith because you love her and she will mature and make all of these beginning issues seem like breeze later on. :)

Thank you SO much for your response! I really relate to what you've said....I had to place my daughter (now 6) in day care when she was 4 months old, and BOY did I have the guilts about that! It was actually a wonderful experience for her....now she's a happy first grader. :) But as far as Lulu (our Shorkie) it really helps to hear from experienced yorkie owners. THANK YOU.

Hello and welcome to YT!!

There are a lot of different ideas on crate training, so I will share what has worked for us. When we found our little one, she was probably just shy of 4 months old and we decided to crate train her. We used a small crate that she could stand up in and turn around but that was about it. The theory is that they will not want to potty where they sleep.

We started by having really yummy treats that we would lure her to the crate with and then toss them in the back of the crate making a noise and them let her go in to get it. Leave he door open during the day and do this routine often. Have something nice for her to lay on, a special toy that only stays in the crate and yummy treats to reward her for going in. We began saying "go to bed", since that was the command our other dog went into his crate by. You don't have to shut the door everytime, but ideally she will relate the noise of the treat, going in and the command and put it all together.

Having her stay in there through the night begins with having her realize that her crate is her safe place and not a sad place. Now, what we did was get her used to the crate and then we would put her in it, by using the treats, and let her stay in there for small bits of time, longer periods as we went. Sometimes she would whine but she learned it was okay and that we were going to come back.

My personal thought is that they are kinda like kids learning to sleep by themselves. Sometimes they cry, but eventually they are fine. Of course, you don't want to just crate her and leave her for long periods of time if you can avoid it, but 9 times out of 10, they should be fine.

I hope this helps. Just be patient and love on her and getting her to know her crate as a safe place, her own "den" and she will be happy in the long run. Best of luck!!! ;)

I see you're in Maryland too! :) I love seeing new people on here from MD.

The submissive peeing - my dad's female dog used to do this, too. Whenever they walked in from being away, she would just get sooo excited. She is now almost 2 yrs old and still does it sometimes, unfortunately. But it has gotten better. We find that when we walk in the house w/ her, to just completely ignore her. It seems mean, but if you don't show excitement, then she is less likely to. Tell strangers/guests to just walk in the door and don't give her any attention until later when it's calmer.

If you're going for the crate training, you should start off giving them a small space. Dogs naturally usually will not potty where they sleep, but if they have access to pee in one corner, and sleep in another... it defeats the purpose of crate training, lol. I would just gradually give her more space over time. Jackson started out in a small crate, then I bought an exercise pen from Kmart that he stayed in while I was gone, and now he stays downstairs (we still block the upstairs) while we're gone and he's now 11 months old. Trust me -- the day will come! Potty training these little stubborn dogs can be TOUGH, just have patience and stick to a schedule and you will be successful. But remember Yorkies are known to take up to a year to fully potty train.

A ton of people leave their dogs for 8 hours a day. People DO have to work and there's nothing wrong with that. However; I think a 12 week old puppy should really be let out once during that time. Their bladder is just so tiny at that age and really shouldn't be expected to hold it that long. I would find a doggie daycare in your area, or a pet sitter to come by 1x during the day, or come home from lunch, etc. It doesn't always have to be like this but I think a 12 week old pup needs to be let out once during that day. The "rule of thumb" is that they can hold it for however many months they are, plus one hour. So a 3 month old dog can hold it for 4 hours.

Bottom line: it's really about works for you! :) I would just learn her schedule, what she's good at and comfortable with. She will grow out of the puppy stage faster than you think!

I hope you continue posting here and can't wait to see pictures of your little girl.

Congratulations on your new puppy!

I definitely think she will outgrow her submissive peeing. Chelsea used to do this whenever I came home, or when she got overly excited. She's now 18 months old and now it happens only rarely - very rarely. Actually, I haven't seen her do it in several weeks.

I feel so guilty for leaving my babies while I'm at work. But I have to work to keep them healthy, happy and well fed. Plus, they have each other to keep them from getting lonely. We spend lots of time loving and playing on the weekends.

As far as potty training while I'm at work most days, I'm blessed to have Alexander. He's the role model for the youngsters and they try to imitate everything he does. He's 13 1/2 years old, and has been potty trained since he was a pup, so he helps me show them how it's done. We do still have accidents, and pee pads are a huge blessing, especially with all the rainy weather we've had the last few weeks (they don't like to go out to potty in the rain :rolleyes:).

I must tell you that I don't have my Yorkie baby yet. I won't be getting her till the end of the year, because I'm in school now and working. I have had a pet before though. There is also doggy day care in most cities now. For a few of my friends it is helping them.

You all are wonderful! Thank you so much for responding. I'm SO glad I found this site. Now I can talk to people who REALLY know and love Yorkies, and benefit from the experience. I'm psyched!

Shorkies are wonderful dogs. However, sometimes they can be very hyper. You might want to try an x-pen with a puppy pad, toys, dog food and a crate that she can sleep in. I have found that they will go into their crate when they want to sleep, play with their toys and poop/pee in the pee pad area. Make sure that the pee pad is in the opposite corner of the food because they won't go near their food. This should help ease your anixety for during the day. I love Shorkies, I think they are so cute.

I have one yorkie right now and have fostered a few.

The submissive peeing may or may not go away as the dog gets older. I have known one dog that outgrew it and many others that did not.

As far as leaving her to go to work. Don't feel bad. I work as a teacher and am gone Monday thru Friday from 7:15 until 3:30. Diva (when she does not have puppies, like she does now) stays in her kennel in my daughter's room. We leave the TV going for her and actually now that she's 4 we leave the kennel door open and put a puppy pad on the floor for her. She either sleeps in the kennel or in my daughter's bed while we are gone. We've come home many times to find her lounging on my daughter's bed watching TV(Yes she actually watches the TV).

Yorkies(or yorkie mixes) tend to be expensive to own, so most of us 'common people' have to work to afford to spoil our little furbabies!!

It Sounds to me like your snorkie has a great home.

I've heard it's the highest honor a dog can bestow on it's human. Dogs in the wild do this for their pack leader. Here is an interesting article though.

Submissive Urination in Dogs

Thank you for responding. That's funny about lounging in the bed! So you're at the point that you're able to trust that your dog will go on the pee pads in a bedroom, with the kennel door open. Wow! Right now ours is in the kitchen because she needs to urinate often, plus the submissive peeing. She deliberately pees on her pad very well.....but the submissive peeing happens by one doggie gate in particular, when we come home. I've read that it's very common. We're not able to trust her in other parts of the house....I'm thinking that when her meals are more structured (to maybe twice a day) as opposed to letting her graze (which I was told I puppy should do as it needs to eat and drink frequently....it will be easier to work on house training....?

Yes, Diva is fully housetrained at 4 years old. We have had her since she was a puppy. We crated her as a puppy and used the puppy pads because she was so small she is not able to 'hold it' for extended periods of time. I also like puppy pads for times when the weather is inclement.

Diva currently is mother to 3, almost 5 week old puppies and she is now helping to teach them to use puppy pads. I have watched her on more than one occasion, lead a puppy to the pad where they then go pee pee. Yorkies are so smart!! (proud granny speaking!!)

Your baby will learn to use puppy pads, but you are right in keeping her crated at this young age when you are away from home. Puppies instinctively do not want to soil their bedding, but they have very small bladders and limited control of their bowels and bladder at her age.

I tell everyone that gets a puppy that potty training a puppy is very much like potty training a child. You have to be very patient, understand that they will have accidents, watch for signals that they have to go and then direct them to the correct place, and be consistent in your training. A dog is rarely completely housetrained before 1 year of age. It is a long process but so worth it for you and your puppy.

Good luck with your baby. It sounds like she is very lucky to have such a great mommy.

My cocker spaniel did the peeing thing for a VERY long time. I wouldn't greet her right away when we got home and she wouldn't piddle right then. That helped ALOT, so we would tell people, don't pet her yet please and in time she stopped.

I miss my Maggie.

Welcome to YT. you will love it here.

I definitely do not have as mush experience as most of the other members here do (and they are wonderful), but I'll just tell you what personally worked for ME:

This may or may not go away. We had a poodle as a family dog when I ws a kid, and she kept it up till the last day of her life, which was 12 years! We just tried to manage it. I remember we would wait outside and call her out before we said hi and then we all entered the house together. And she would ALWAYS pee when we came home, regardless where or how we said hi.

When Sushi was a baby, she used to dribble a few tiny drops when I came home and said hi, but then I learned that it would help if I ignore her for a few minutes when I come in. and it worked. I would come home from work, go about my business without acknowledging her jumping up and down, and 2-3 minutes later as soon as she settled down, i would squat down and say hi. and it worked. she never did it again.

Now that she's older, sometimes when I come home she is so cute I can't help running to her, picking her up, and drowning her in kisses. And she doesn't pee anymore. I don't know if she just gew out of it, or she got conditioned NOT to pee upon my return.

This is how I did the whole potty training/crate training: I too work 8 hours a day. but I do have the luxury of being able to come home for lunch. So that helped a lot. They can only hold it in for so long (apparently the same number of hours as their age in months, roughly. So a 3 month old puppy can hold it in for 3 hous more or less)

I got her one of these playpens, with an open top, which had enough room for her little bed, half of a pee pad, and a water bowl. and a few toys of course. TV on. I did not free feed her, so i could control her in/out schedule.

At night she slept in my bed, and whenever she woke up and wanted to go pee, I woke up and took her to the pad and then brought her back to bed (i have a high bed, she couldn't/wouldn't jump down by herself. so I had full control of where she went and what she did at night. And she never messed up the bed, I was quick enough to jump out of bed and take her to the pad). The metabolism slows down at night too, so they don't need to wake up every 2-3 hours to go. My girl could sleep all the way till 5am in one shot most of the nights, sometimes one potty in between. And as she got older she slept longer ang longer.

Then first thing in the morning straight to the pee pad, then breakfast, then I put her in the pen while I showered and got ready for work. By the time I was ready to leave home she was ready for her post breakfast potty. a trip to the pad, then back in the pen. most of the time she would sleep until noon when I came home, and usually there was no mess in the pen. But if she really had to she would go on the pad (which she had no choice, it was either the bed or the pad, and I'm sure she preferred to have a clean bed. but the whole point it not letting her get used to peeing where she sleeps. that pad in the playpen was for emergency purposes only). At lunchtime, out of the pen and straight to the pad, then it was lunch and then playtime. Then before going back to work, same thing: potty and back to the pen. Same after work, straight to the pad, then free schedule: playing, going for a walk, etc, with a quick potty reminder every couple hours. when she was not eating or playing with me, or whenever I needed to do something without watching her, I would either put a leash on her and tie it to my waist, or put her in the pen for a little while. I never wanted her to have a chance to make a mistake.

Then dinner, then potty half an hour after, another one right before bed, and it was bedtime again!!!

You just have to be very consistent, and never even ALLOW her to make a mistake. And watch her like a hawk all the time. Dogs like routine. That gives them confidence. If they know for sure that at a certain time they are going to be let out and taken to the pad, they will hold it in for as long as they can because they KNOW for sure you're going to be there to get them out.

I have to admit it was not easy, I put my life on hold for about a couple of months until she got it down, and now she is 100% potty trained. I completely trust her and she NEVER makes a potty mistake. I'm so proud of her :)

With your schedule though, I don't know if you could have somebody to come home midday and let her out or not. it's going to be for a short while but definitely worth the effort.

I know yorkies have a bad rap for potty training, but I think it's more because it's easier to let a potty mistake go unnoticed with yorkies, since they are so small. But also do realize that accidents happen, and you can't blame yourself or the pup. All you can do is just clean it with a proper cleaner specifically for pet urine cleaning so the smell doesn't remain and encourage her to do it again in the same spot.

Good luck with the little one, and let us know how it all goes.

Wow...you're amazing! Thank you for the details...I THRIVE on details, since I'm such a novice. My husband has been trying to get her to do her business outside. But true to what I've heard....it's hit or miss. He is SO happy when she makes a poop outside (she clearly gives signals for when she has to poop in particular) but she is FAMOUS for going outside and forgetting, or becoming distracted, and then coming back inside, and running to the pad to poop. It's almost as though she's saying, "whew, thanks for coming back inside....i've been wanting to poop and I needed to see my pad to poop!"

So.....for this breed....though it will get easier over time, and she'll be 100% trained one day....we need to understand that she'll always need to have the ability to go in the house...? Since we aren't home mid day, (unless we hire someone)...we have to realize that this kind of dog, must always have pads to go on? My husband had a large dog growing up, so he's been thinking that it'll be like his childhood dog....he walked his dog in the morning, the dog apparently held it all day until like 4:00pm and then he walked it when he got home. So I'm right in understanding that this is not realistic for a yorkie/shorkie? He was hoping to have our shorkie do all eliminating outside.....?

We do have someone come every day (a neighborhood teen who is GREAT with our shorkie) but she cannot come until 4:00 pm. I'm home by 6:00 pm. We leave in the morning at 7:30 pm

Wow... I read your post and took notes. I like the way you were persistent with your baby and it gives me hope for my :aimeeyork in the near future!

Thanks for sharing your method :)

I believe it's more the lifestyle than the breed that dictates the method of potty training. for me, I decided to peepad train (as opposed to outside) for three reasons:

1- I live in a condo building. Just wasn't realistic to run to the elevators, wait, get in, get out, find a spot away from the entrance, and let her go....EVERY couple of hours!

2- I work full time, and I was going to be away a few hours at a time. I wanted her to have a backup in case there was an emergency, and didn't want to confuse her as to where it's ok to go and where is not. Although now she gets walked every day and she does do her thing outside, but she knows that she has access to her pad whenever she wants.

3- Canadian winters!!!! It might be ok for bigger dogs, they might even enjoy being out in the cold and running in the snow, but NOT yorkies. At least not MY yorkie. She hates cold weather. And i'd be nervous to expose her to that kinda weather for long and too often in winter. We have indoor doggy parks here that I take her to during the winter months, at least couple times a week. Or I take her to the mall and underground pathways connecting the malls. That way she gets to walk and see the outside world without having to go out in the cold. But that's not something I could rely on for regular potty training.

I don't think pads are necessary at all but I may be alone in my thinking! I don't use pads and never have. I do think it's helpful when they're real young & you're not home often, etc, but I don't believe in peeing/pooping allowed in the house EVER. Jackson is strictly outdoor trained and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I just think at 12 weeks old, you can't expect them to hold it 8 hours. Once she's grown, I absolutely think she can hold it that long. :thumbup:

House Training Lulu
 

Hi. My wife (hairhome) and I are going back and forth on the best way to train Lulu. As she stated we are at work for most of the day and are unable to come home at lunch time, and so on, to let the dog out. We are reading the threads and wrestling with the best way to proceed with training. We have puppy pads, a crate and a kennel and have enclosed Lulu in the kitchen with gates and laminate flooring. But right now it's a crap shoot (excuse the pun) as the best way. From what I've read these dogs are hard to train and for her size, she will never be able to hold her urine all. She will pee on the pad and occasionally poop outside but for the most part she reverts to the pad for peeing and pooping. She never pees outside. We're considering a play pen as a long term solution which would be big enough to contain a pee pad. That way we won't have to block off the kitchen with gates. We discussed crate training but are not in agreement as to the appropriate size (please see attached photo). I hate the thought of leaving Lulu in a small confined space for 8 hrs and my wife says that approach would require a hired dog walker. I would like to get some more feedback on our situation and will continue reading the forums for training etc.

Hi and Welcome I now own a Shorkie too, we took her in at about 13 weeks. she is so lovible and very very smart. The only thing I dont like is that her hair gets matted so easy. My Yorkies never did. But when out side she runs like the wind and is into every thing, so that might be why.
sorry im no help on crate training I never used a crate only for after my male had surgery. you will have to share pictures.

Hi Britster,

My husband posted on this thread (FMRVMH) is his login...he has a nice big picture of Lulu. Anyway....would love your thoughts regarding his post!

Wowwwww. Indoor doggie parks. That is SOOO cool. The more I hear of Canada, the more I like Canada! I agree, makes perfect sense that you've pee-pad trained. I can't imagine having a poor doggie having to wait for the elevator to get outside! :) Thanks for your response.

Sushi used to be like that too. I would walk her for an hour, and she would hold it in only to come home and run straight to the pad and pee. I guess because she thought that was the only place she was supposed to go (although she didn't seem to have a problem pooping outside. Maybe it's easier to hold #1 rather than #2).

But somehow she learned that peeing outside is ALSO acceptable. So now I walk her every day after work for about an hour and she does all her business outside, but during the day, or early morning when she's too sleepy to go for a walk (and I am in too much of a rush to head out) she goes to the pad.

Crate training is not appropriate for people that are not home all day. you're not supposed to crate them more than 3-4 hours at a time, especially when they're that yonge and need to go every couple of hours. It's not fair to the dog. And by keeping them in a crate without letting them out, you're forcing the dog to get used to peeing where he sleeps, and that will make housetraining very difficult. I would consider a playpen rather than a small crate.

If you feel it is best for her to be able to go as she pleases, and pad train her, then by all means -- go for it! :) I think in the end, you know what's best for your situation and only you, so you can determine what will work out the best for you. With the crate training, I do believe that if you are potty training them to go outside and using the crate training method, that the crate should be small so they don't use it as their potty. But if you're planning on allowing her to use her pads during the day and train her that way... a big crate would be acceptable, with a pee pad in one corner, food bowl, water bowl, etc. I've known people that do that.

Can I suggest to you an ex-pen? I had one of those for Jackson as a puppy and it worked out great. I, however, strictly outdoor trained him so I never left down a pee pad. I also am gone for generally no longer than 4-6 hours at a time so this worked for us. I'm a believer in not allowing a dog to go inside at ALL (pad or not) but that's just my personal preference. I find dogs that are pad trained are more prone to have accidents the rest of their life, confuse pads w/ rugs, etc. On the other hand, I should mention that Jackson is 12.5lbs and has always been a larger Yorkie so his bladder is a bit bigger, so is his poop, LOL! I prefer not to be cleaning it up all day. Plus, as a pup, he was a poop eater so I wouldn't trust him not to eat his poop.