When a person like Megansmomma work in the rescue over years and see permanently abused, mistreated and abandoned dogs is it her right not to congratulate to accidents like this - two "unwanted" pregnancys from a dog which is not a breeder dog because of her illness.

To the OP: I don´t want to be harsh to you but have you ever seen the pictures and videos from the dog cruelty from some private owners and in the puppymill? Do you want that one of your babys come in such persons hands? In USA every hour will be killed 900 pets in reason for the overpopulation. Please let your dogs spay and neuter and give them a long happy life without the risk of pregnancys. Please do it.

to the op, Im sorry this happened, but good luck in keeping the 2 survivors alive, it will be alot of work and youll get some good advise on feeding etc. A suggestion...have mommy spayed so it doesnt happen again, and before you sell your pups, spay/nueter them so the health problems arent passed down. You know everyone makes mistakes, none of us are perfect, the trick is to learn from our mistakes. Good luck with the pups.

Thank you. I guess I just get so tired of hearing it happen again, after it has already happened once.

And I agree with you, it is hard to hear, but maybe it's the only way to get through to people, before they lose their pet.

If people think I was hard on this person, they should have heard the tongue lashing my neighbor and very good frined rec'd when her Poodles "accidentally" got together. The result was everybody was spayed. All 7. And yes, we are still the best of frineds and she thanks me all the time for convincing her to neuter and spay all 7.

I understand what you mean, but it just upsets me, that this happened again, when this tiny little dog went thhrough one pregancy already, with problems with her back legs.

Can you just imagine how hard that was on this little dog?

I am willing to bet, she had been told by her Vet to spay her, after the first time.

I'll bet you wouldn't let that happen to one of your babies.

Exactly! :thumbup:

I read those posts, too and get really frustrated.

Excellent post! :thumbup::thumbup:

yes you are right there is no way on earth i would let this happen to my baby...i just feel being nice will make the other poster more willing to listen to the horrors of puppymills and all..idk if worcester is lurking and reading this but it would have been better not to scare her off so she would have learned all the things ppl like megansmomma could teach her..yes i agree it should NEVER have happened twice but it did and that can not be changed imo,the puppies come first, i hope they are ok

i think you stated the facts just rite, the other poster needs to hear this, but i believe you did it in the correct way

:thumbup: EXCELLENT POST:thumbup:... whether or not this a "public" (im sooo tired of that word being thrown around :rolleyes:) forum there are ways of wording posts that arent nasty. I truly beleive that this post will get the op's attention before any other post in this thread will.
To the OP.. good luck with your new pups. You really should consider having her spayed so the mom or you dont have to go through this again. Its not healthy for her and it could kill her if there was a "next" time.

Ok let me clear something up here so you all can settle down, my female has knee trouble like almost all yorkies will or do already have her knee pops out of joint which causes her legs to go out she has had this since she was little it is not bad on her nor does it hurt my vet says it is very comin in this breed they pop out so much even when not PG that she has wore out the joint so now they are more out then in most of the time. as for her heat I keep very close watch on it by calender and she was to go into heat 3 weeks before I sent her to my xx but had no sign of it and her 2nd heat of her life she never had any signs no bleeding no swelling nothing so I thought she had done the same thing this time so I took her thinking it was safe and she was over it, my vet says any male can bring a female around these two have been together since they were little they love each other and miss each other when not together so I think that is what happen. he is a yorkie too I got him as a x-mas gift due to pets smart dropping my other yorkie and breaking her neck he is the far distance brother to the female that was killed and she was my world.he is smaller then Sadie I'll post pics of the two later he is 4lb she is 5lb.
she is due to be fixed in 4 weeks bc I did not want this after the first PG happened the way it did as for the two babies I'm keeping one and my daughter is taking one.

I do know somethings about breeding I use to raise English bulldogs but they are nothing like yorkies they are born about a pound or two, so I already knew about the heating pad, I have been using it and some gel pack that I boil to keep hot and the feedings are good they are little butter balls I was just wondering when do I stop worrying about her dragging them out of the kennel and them losing there temp while out.

Thanks all to of you for your input even the one that's not so nice.

I am just a little confused here. The thread title is "first litter and have already lost one......" but the OP goes on to say this is her 2nd litter. Which is it? If there were problems medically the first time, would it not have been a superb idea to have the little girl spayed right after that first litter instead of taking the chance that she get pregnant, either on purpose or by accident, a second time?

I feel for the new puppies and their mommy who is too ill to properly take care of them. I hope they all make it and do not end up in one of those awful outcomes we hear so much about every day. I also hope the OP takes the responsible route and have her spayed as soon as the vet says she is well enough to have it done.

Thanks so much for updating us. They sound like they are thriving!! :) I think its awesome that you have plans to have her spayed. :thumbup:

I called it the first litter bc they lived..there was more then one, she only had one with her first Pg and it died due to she was alone at the vets and Sadie did not break the bag. my vet says sometimes they will due that the first time or something could of been wrong with the pup the reason she did not break it either way he asured me she was fine very healthy.. she was and is very healthy then and now she has never had any heath trouble at all she had no trouble the first time but this time the pups is what made her sick they took everything out of her they caused her sugar to drop the stress caused her to have aulcer which caused the bleeding and she can not feed them bc she became anemic but as is well now she is still making alittle milk just not enough to get them full so I'm helping out.
I wanted to fix her but I'm also very picky about who treats my dogs so I have to work it around me being home which is in Oklahoma she is the only pet I have that lives with me and she is never outside with out me so I was in no hurry to fix her bc there was no threat of her getting PG.

Worcester, I think your vet has glossed over how serious your girl's knee condition is. It's called luxating patella and is classified between grade 1 to 4, with 4 being the most serious. Your girl sounds like a grade 3 at least, possibly 4. She should be prevented from jumping and climbing stairs, etc. You may want to see another vet about this; one who has experience with small dogs. It can often be repaired through surgery.

Raising Yorkie pups is very different from raising larger breeds. They need to stay warm and eat often. They are very small and have no reserves so can go downhill quickly. You should google 'hypoglycemia' to be aware of the symptoms and how to deal with it. An especially vulnerable time for the pups is as they are being weaned. Sometimes they may not eat all they should and can have a drop in blood sugar (a hypoglycemia episode) which can be very dangerous. Keep a close eye on them and best of luck.

Since I am the not so nice one~I just have to say congratulation! You have now bred your Yorkie 2 times and she has by your own admission sever LP. You have now passed this CONGENITAL defect on to an entire litter of puppies. Furthermore, your vet is irresponsible as well if he is condoning breeding a Yorkie with Luxating Patella. A responsible breeder would have had her spayed and made into a pet so that this would never be passed on to another dog! She need surgery to correct this problem that is extremely expensive and very painful. Do you even know what Luxating Patella is? Let me compare it to someone with bad knees and how painful it is to a human. I feel so bad for that little mommy pup and her babies! Dogs can be "in love" but they are not human and do not need to show their love to each other by breeding! It was your responsibility as her owner to not let this happen. It doesn't matter if you are keeping the puppies and handing them to family members. Now you have not 1 Yorkie with LP but an entire litter that will most likely because it as well! Surgery to correct LP is about $3,000 and it sounds like your little girl needs it to correct her problem immediately. Plus now you have also brought into the world 3 more pups that will carry this defect. So let's take the $3,000 and multiply that by 4 and you have a $12,000 "accident because they are in love". I really don't care if a few on this board think I am not playing nice in the sandbox! This is so unconscionable that I am beside myself! This is why I feel that anyone who allows their dog to breed she be held accountable for their defects ie LP in this case. So if you have $12,000 to fix all of the new problems that you have just allowed to create then excuse me for voicing my opinion. The total lack of responsibility is what has my head spinning! The more information that is being divulged the more upsetting this truly is~once again.

[quote=worcester;2565803]Ok let me clear something up here so you all can settle down, my female has knee trouble like almost all yorkies will or do already have her knee pops out of joint which causes her legs to go out she has had this since she was little it is not bad on her nor does it hurt my vet says it is very comin in this breed they pop out so much even when not PG that she has wore out the joint so now they are more out then in most of the time. as for her heat I keep very close watch on it by calender and she was to go into heat 3 weeks before I sent her to my xx but had no sign of it and her 2nd heat of her life she never had any signs no bleeding no swelling nothing so I thought she had done the same thing this timequote]

I want to answer that. No, knee trouble (Patella luxation) is a big fault in a breeder dog and every responsible breeder would not use a dog with patella or legg perthes for breeding. If all breeders would think so than would patella and leggs perthes a minority problem. In germany your dog will be tested for such things and then outclosed from breeding.

It may be that she now have no pain but who can say it in future? I had a chihuahua puppy with patella and some years she was not in pain and then she was yelping and crying and I had taken her to the vet and she died during the operation. Please bote that the success of a patella operation can not be guaranteed by a vet.

A small tiny dog can come into heat without showing signs as bleeding and so one. So it could be that you cannot notice her heat but the male CAN IT and DOES IT.

Like others here, I'm upset about this girl with severe LP having babies. I won't make a judgement (well, at least not to the point of name calling) on the issue but will say many times vets give bad advice or even no advice. It does sound like this vet didn't stress the dangers of LP enough though it is the owner's ultimate responsibility. My current vet told me that one of my pups was a beautiful specimen and I should keep her and breed her. She was, at that time, 7 months old and 3 pounds. Needless to say, I found a proper pet home for her as she was much too small to breed. With that being said, I hope that the pups Dad has good structure and the pups didn't inherit Mom's knee problems. Though, I would never breed a girl such as this, it doesn't automatically mean that the pups are destined to have the same condition. I truly hope, for the pups' sake, that they take after their (hopefully sound) father as far as structure goes.

I still don't understand why the word irresponsible breeding is being considered name called. IMO name calling would be using wording like stupid, moron, idiot, fool, bozo, jerk~none of which I have used toward the OPer or for that fact anyone else in this thread or in any other posts that I have ever mad on YT. Furthermore, I would never use those words when addressing any member of this forum no matter what is being said about my opinions. It is upsetting to me that not only does the OP not understand the seriousness of her little one's LP but he vet has not fully explained what exactly this means as well. Way back on the very first page on this thread it was concerning to me that she was on to her second accident. What jumped out to me personally was that the pups back legs were popping out while she was walking during her FIRST pregnancy~then she allowed a second accident to occur. The second accident almost cost this little one her life! All because they "love" each other :confused: This pup is 2 yrs old and has what sounds like Grade 4 LP~even Woogie Man who is a breeder. I am very concerned for her overall health and very upset at the lackadaisical attitudes of some member here, including the OPer that feel I am being over reactive to this attitude.

Seriously, I would love to know what the plan is to treat this pup with the severe LP possibly Grade 4 defect? According to the OPer she is rubbing bone on bone~this required surgery~~~very expensive surgery and there is no mention of any treatment plan just explanations of why she was and how she got pregnant for a second time. Personally, I believe that OPer needs to find a new vet that is fully informed of the congenital defect Luxating Patella and the needed treatment (surgery) of this condition. Right now in our rescue we have a hydrocephalus, double leg perthes, liver shunt, and also a AAI puppy that is paralyzed. This is not to even include two girls that just had litters of puppies that were from a mill and also found on the street~one of which needed a c-section. Plus just about every dog in the southern rescues are Heartworm positive which is something that is 100% preventable with a little pill every month. Where does all this money to fix these pups come from?? Donations and not from people that breed irresponsibly. They just dump and run and let everyone else clean up their accidents and messes. So I am sorry when I am not handing out warm and fuzzes to pet owners that are not responsible for their pets and allow things like this to happen.

Megansmomma, you're right in that there has been no actual name calling but the tone of this thread has been, IMO, overly critcal when criticism, along with some help that these pups obviously need, is more in order. That's just my opinion and I've tried to conduct myself accordingly.

Without knowing the whole story, it does seem like the vet dropped the ball somewhere. I think that, oftentimes, people do get into bad situations due to bad and/or no advice. Unfortunately, it's the dog or puppies that suffer from this. Not saying that's the case here, but it seems to point to it being so.

People tend to post here with their immediate problem and we almost never know the whole background and can only respond to what's being posted. I see pups in possible crisis and an owner asking for help. My focus is to address that issue. I know your focus is different and that's okay. At the end of the day, I feel we're both 'all about the dogs'. When you think about it, wouldn't helping these pups get off to a good start be considered a kind of rescue? Also, that poor mama needs help for her legs and, from what's been posted, the OP needs to find a vet more attentive to her needs.

worcester, im sure you have an excellent vet but this porblem does seem a lil more serious than a slight knee issue,im just suggesting maybe getting a second opinion or having him run some tests,lp is very serious...look on this forum and you will find tons of info! good luck,how are the babies today?


woogie man, you just said everything i have been thinking,that was a great post!

Worcester, I missed your last post as I got called away while typing mine. I do feel that you have not been given the best advice, no matter how many vets you've seen. Any girl that has her knees popping out as you described should be considered a severe case and surgery should be considered. I wish you the best in getting past your immediate situation (raising these pups), but really feel that LP surgery should be considered before Sadie's joints are too deteriorated to be helped. If you have any specific questions about raising your pups, feel free to PM me and I'll help in any way I can.

I did not breed her to sell puppies ...i did not breed her period it was a accident if you believe it or not i'm not a breeder or a milll... And if i have never taken sadie to another vet then i would do what you people are saying to have her checked for lp but she has seen two other vets and they have all said the same thing she might need surgery as she gets older but only if she is in pain.
She only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out .... I do agree with woogie she is and was to small to get pg but what's is done is done to late to go back...

its good that you have seen other vets,it always helps to get a second opinion

Now you are saying that only when pg her legs give out? You just said a few posts back, "Ok let me clear something up here so you all can settle down, my female has knee trouble like almost all yorkies will or do already have her knee pops out of joint which causes her legs to go out she has had this since she was little it is not bad on her nor does it hurt my vet says it is very comin in this breed they pop out so much even when not PG that she has wore out the joint so now they are more out then in most of the time. "

So, which is it? Did it pop out so much even when not PG that she wore out the joint, or "only did this while pg no other time does her legs give out..."

So, now, did the vet xray your yorkies legs/knees/hips? Did the vet really give a full evaluation? It is hard to know what to believe when the story changes from post to post. I can't understand how you can say they are not that bad, when you also say they are more out of joint than in. And it is NOT true that most Yorkies have this condition. Reputable breeders ensure any dog appearing in their lines with this condition are NOT bred and the defect is NOT passed on.

And some wonder why Megansmomma might be getting a little frustrated and not trying to be all nicey nice with advice that is falling on deaf ears? This reminds me of another thread going on right now........ before you stick up for someone, it is best to really be sure they are on the up and up.

Only wanted to ask the OP a question since I know very little yet about all this. Are you planning on having her spayed now? I hope so she is such a tiny we sure wouldnt want more accidents.:rolleyes:

She stated in one of her post that she had the mom scheduled to be spayed in 4 weeks.

LOL I'm still confused about her losing a gray one. I thought all yorkies were born black, unless they were a chocolate or a parti.:confused:

I see the OP has been suspended and also one of her posts deleted. I do understand why but think it's unfortunate that so many threads here lately are being driven by tone rather than content. As I stated before, if the OP has any specific questions about raising the pups, she may contact me. Since she is suspended and will not be able to PM, if she is reading these posts, she may e-mail me at jaydub12@gmail.com.

why was she suspended?

Gray yorkie baby - sounds like she had a blue born you can google it for more info it happens