Originally Posted by llcornell (Post 2494174)

No you cant put all the blame on the BYB BUT they are the source so its a good place to start. We have to start somewhere.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2494224)

You make a good point, but it kills me that some of the better breeders are cutting back their breeding programs because of the recession, but this isn't true of the byb's.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2494225)

Peta and H$ are already getting the ball rolling in almost every state with legislation. They are already going after everyone who "breeds" a litter, not just the byber or mills. They way things are going, ALL breeders will be legislated out of existance. That will be the saddest day of all.

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2494241)

I have noticed the price of Yorkies coming down in the paper. I think that even they are feeling the crunch! They are also dumping alot of problem breeders and older dogs at the pound. I remember years ago I was talking with a "breeder" and she told me that if the dogs cant pull their weight, she "gets rid of them". I know another "breeder" that breeds Papillons, chihuahua, and doxies. I asked her if she had a good vet if she needed a c-section. She told me that if a c-section was needed she would kill the bitch herself as she couldnt afford the surgery. Just makes your mind spin!!!

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2494241)

I have noticed the price of Yorkies coming down in the paper. I think that even they are feeling the crunch! They are also dumping alot of problem breeders and older dogs at the pound. I remember years ago I was talking with a "breeder" and she told me that if the dogs cant pull their weight, she "gets rid of them". I know another "breeder" that breeds Papillons, chihuahua, and doxies. I asked her if she had a good vet if she needed a c-section. She told me that if a c-section was needed she would kill the bitch herself as she couldnt afford the surgery. Just makes your mind spin!!!

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2494199)

I think there is a little truth in the statement, "you get what you pay for", but there are so many exceptions, nothing in life is that simple. For example, some websites sell dogs that don't met standard for outrageous prices, and say the dogs are "related to champions". That means nothing, but a cute website name and some good pictures of dogs in cute poses, make people think the dogs are worth more. Some sites promise a tiny, and again try to charge more; often the tiny is tiny because it's unhealthy or in most cases it's not even tiny. Dogs under a certain size can't be used for breeding so they should be worth less, not more, and most good breeders won't sell them for more. I don't buy the notion that good breeders charge more for tinies, because they want to ensure that the tiny goes to people who have the funds to pay for it's medical needs. Just because you can come up with an extra $1000.00 doesn't mean you have the funds to pay for future medical needs. The same with males and females, many good breeders sell both for the same price. Other sites sell off colors calling them "rare" and unusual, and charge more than a show breeder's dog. There is something called supply and demand, as you are aware, but really good breeders are more interested in finding the best homes, not making a buck, and don't try to create a false demand for their dogs.

I've seen some beautiful show breeders dogs, who were being held back because they were thinking of showing it, and at 8 or so months decided that they didn't need them in the program, and the dog could be perfect in every way, and worth thousands of dollars, but since it was older, they will sell them for under $1000.00. Sometimes you are paying extra money for hype, and so it takes a really educated buying to sort out the hype from the truth. Don't forget rescues, you get way more than you pay for here.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 2494271)

yes, i agree, you are right that sometimes people charge a lot of money for a small, unhealthy dog. now that is a scam!

i think the reason that backyard breeders exist is because there is a demand for them, and the reason there is a demand for them i think is mainly because of 2 reasons.

1) people want 'cheaper' dogs.
2) people want to buy a dog but were turned down by good breeders or rescue because they didn't meet the qualifications. so they turn to backyard breeders to get what they want.

and i think unless those 2 things are solved, there will always always be backyard breeders, because they fill a need...

it is very unfortunate! :(

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2494286)

No way to solve 1 or 2. If people want a cheap dog, they should buy a stuffed animal....
Same with number 2...some people, in my opinion, should only own stuffed animals.
There are far too many people who are not responsible pet owners. Just got an owner surrender today that the people are dumping because they bought a new home and want to "assume a fresh start". They are keeping their children .. for now at least. :confused:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2494286)

No way to solve 1 or 2. If people want a cheap dog, they should buy a stuffed animal....
Same with number 2...some people, in my opinion, should only own stuffed animals.
There are far too many people who are not responsible pet owners. Just got an owner surrender today that the people are dumping because they bought a new home and want to "assume a fresh start". They are keeping their children .. for now at least. :confused:

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 2494304)

i just thought of the reason why you didn't get a lot of responses when you posted. (my best guess anyways)

most of the people probably did get their dogs from backyard breeders, because there are way more backyard breeders than there are qualified breeders. so the majority of the pet owners didn't get their pets form good breeders..... so those people will probably be reluctant to comment on your thread.

what you think?

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2494330)

I am prone to think that most people do not even realize or consider themselves as someone who is enabling a BYB. There is much more awareness about puppy mill but BYB's are kind of a dirty little secret.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 2494304)

i just thought of the reason why you didn't get a lot of responses when you posted. (my best guess anyways)

most of the people probably did get their dogs from backyard breeders, because there are way more backyard breeders than there are qualified breeders. so the majority of the pet owners didn't get their pets form good breeders..... so those people will probably be reluctant to comment on your thread.

what you think?

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2494344)

People think that if they did not get a pup from a pet store, then surely it was a reputable breeder.
Unfortunately people really do not know.
There is so much focus on puppy mills that they do not know there are other breeders who are just about as bad flying under the radar.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2494330)

I am prone to think that most people do not even realize or consider themselves as someone who is enabling a BYB. There is much more awareness about puppy mill but BYB's are kind of a dirty little secret.

Originally Posted by AMD (Post 2494337)

Good Post!! This is a very good paragraph:

Why is this happening in the United States today? The number one biggest contributor to the problem is the backyard breeder not the puppy mills. This is a name that has become unpopular and no one wants to admit they are a backyard breeder. Many people do not even realize they are part of the problem. This is what I need to address in this post. The only way to stop the needless killing of dogs is to stop the needless breeding of them.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2494300)

Yes until they pee on the new carpet :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 2494355)

well, people do not like to admit they are wrong. i am sure there are people that bought from backyard breeders and even if they agree with the idea you are presenting here. they are still going to ignore you, because if they agreed with you, then it would mean that they made a mistake.

i think it's probably a touchy subject for dog owners? the people who agree with you won't be willing to say anything if they got their dog from a backyard breeder and is happy with the dog. and others will just think you are crazy since they don't agree with you....

that's kind of how it works i guess... :thumbdown

Originally Posted by llcornell (Post 2494405)

I dont think its about admitting you are wrong or have made a mistake. Its about education. I purchased my first yorkie Maggie from a BYB and I will admit it. I didnt know better. She had all the typical hereditarial yorkie problems that should have been checked before breeding, by me and the breeder. I made a mistake but I loved her and she lived to be 16 with 2 knee surgeries and alot of other medical bills later she lived a long full life but since then I have learned and will make different and hopefully better choices in the future. I now volunteer for a rescue organization and will continue to try to make the best choices possible from here on out and that is all from EDUCATION. If we dont talk about then no one will learn. I wish 17 years ago I had read some of this, not only would It have saved my heart it would have helped the dog population and my pocketbook.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2494249)

There are plenty of "breeder" that need to be put out of business. Illinois has legislation and I for one voice my opinion directly to my representative that I support it. It should be difficult to breed when there are ONE MILLION dogs PTS monthly. That is outrageous! :mad:

People have become so accustom to immediate self gratification. I doesn't matter the cost we need the best, biggest, most expensive of everything even if we cannot afford it.

Originally Posted by Karrie (Post 2494431)

I don't usually post to these types of threads, but I feel that I must respond to that article.

I understand that there are responsible breeders and that there are irresponsible breeders. I understand that some breeders are greeders and some breeders breed for their love of the breed and for the best interest in producing quality and healthy dogs.

I just read the AKC standard - and it makes reference to only physical appearance!! I TOTALLY disagree with the continuous comment in that article that if someone does not have a dog meets the 100% physical appearance as set forth by the AKC then they do not have the right to breed it!!

I strongly oppose irresponsible breeders who breed for greed without any consideration to the puppy's health - but I also disagree with the idea that only a select few should have the right to breed. My baby is AKC certified - but does not meet the AKC standard - she has silver on her forehead!! She is healthy, smart and 100% yorkie. I can't imagine life without her and she came from a responsible BYB.

It is wrong to label all BYBers as irresponsible and careless. These types of posts are offensive to me- and I don't think I'm the only one.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 2494304)

i just thought of the reason why you didn't get a lot of responses when you posted. (my best guess anyways)

most of the people probably did get their dogs from backyard breeders, because there are way more backyard breeders than there are qualified breeders. so the majority of the pet owners didn't get their pets form good breeders..... so those people will probably be reluctant to comment on your thread.

what you think?

Originally Posted by Karrie (Post 2494431)

I don't usually post to these types of threads, but I feel that I must respond to that article.

I understand that there are responsible breeders and that there are irresponsible breeders. I understand that some breeders are greeders and some breeders breed for their love of the breed and for the best interest in producing quality and healthy dogs.

I just read the AKC standard - and it makes reference to only physical appearance!! I TOTALLY disagree with the continuous comment in that article that if someone does not have a dog meets the 100% physical appearance as set forth by the AKC then they do not have the right to breed it!!

I strongly oppose irresponsible breeders who breed for greed without any consideration to the puppy's health - but I also disagree with the idea that only a select few should have the right to breed. My baby is AKC certified - but does not meet the AKC standard - she has silver on her forehead!! She is healthy, smart and 100% yorkie. I can't imagine life without her and she came from a responsible BYB.

It is wrong to label all BYBers as irresponsible and careless. These types of posts are offensive to me- and I don't think I'm the only one.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2494446)

I just have one question of everyone involved in this thread who breeds their pups. I do not want an answer....it is a question for you to ask yourselves.
Why do you breed if not for show? What do you do with your puppies? Do you know for a fact that every pup you have bred in the past is safe and sound and being well cared for?
Are your pockets deep enough to pay for any extraordinary veterinary expenses that can come with breeding? Are your pockets deep enough and your heart strong enough to deal with a yorkie with cancer or pyometria?
Just something to think about.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 2494446)

I just have one question of everyone involved in this thread who breeds their pups. I do not want an answer....it is a question for you to ask yourselves.
Why do you breed if not for show? What do you do with your puppies? Do you know for a fact that every pup you have bred in the past is safe and sound and being well cared for?
Are your pockets deep enough to pay for any extraordinary veterinary expenses that can come with breeding? Are your pockets deep enough and your heart strong enough to deal with a yorkie with cancer or pyometria?
Just something to think about.