In rebuttal about HSUS and Peta
 

While I disagree with Ingrid's "hidden agenda", (Peta's leader)I totally support HSUS and Peta getting together to battle puppy mills. If these two powerhouses join forces to empower lobbyists to influence our senators and representatives to do something about puppy mills, then perhaps something will get done. Will this ever come to not being allowed pets? Come on...get real! That will never happen!!!:eek: :rolleyes:

Remember, the larger the following of a group, say HSUS or Peta or any national or international group, the more diverse is its membership. Constituents will never agree to anything in totality, especially something as radical as banning pet ownership. It just won't happen, and it's up to us as voters to make sure it doesn't get to that point. Apathy about puppy mills is just too dangerous to throw this baby out with the bath water. If we don't ban together with a large organization, our small group voices will be lost in the roar of other issues constantly bombarding today's legislators.


How much do you care about the abolition of puppy mills? You just have to be sure, first and foremost, that this is the primary goal of any organization you support. If that is the spearhead of any consequential legislation, then that legislation deserves a closer look. Puppy mills are the common enemy. We have to ban with others to make sure that is enemy that is defeated.

Sorry this got so long!! Obviously, this is something about which I feel very strongly...even before the Oprah show highlighted this despicable practice.

Yes, stopping puppymills is extremely important. But PETA's reasons for doing so are about so much more than the public thinks...they don't want to stop the suffering of animals..they actually want to continue it in another way..they want to exterminate our domestic animals completely. Nothing is worth supporting such an extreme group of people who want to take our pets away from us completely. If people really want to stop puppymills, they'll only buy from reputable breeders and won't purchase dogs from petstores, puppymills, or backyard breeders anymore.

It is easy to say that people should stop buying from pet stores, but it is not that easy. I really don't know what to believe about PETA. I have never been a fan and never will. But I agree that someone bugger than us needs to stop the puppy mills. Once the puppies are in the stores, it is all over How can anyone not love those little faces? People are drawn in, and they buy. Worst of all, they often buy on impulse which is the worst way to buy a puppy. But the puppy mills are the real issue, and someone with big money and a big voice will need to be the one or ones who stop it.

If the public will become educated and stop supporting Puppymills by refusing to purchase from them or pet stores simple economics will put them out of business. If there is no demand, no supply is needed. As long as there is a demand these operations will continue, even if forced to go underground.

:thumbup: If we can keep educating, people will learn about the horrors of puppymills. I bet many people that had no idea about puppymills saw Oprah's show friday and now know better than to buy from a petstore. If we can continue educating, more and more people will learn.

:thumbup: :thumbup: so true. It's only a tiny tiny percentage of Pet Stores that don't buy from mills - PETLAND IS THE Puppy Mills BIGGEST CUSTOMER

We have a small petstore near my new apartment and I hate to say this but these puppies looked happy and were well cared for - BUT - this is because the owner buys his puppies from breeders locally. (we had a long long talk) and he had no problem talking bad about puppy mills. There were only 3 puppies and he never has more than 5. (he said) but it was the cleanest place I've seen Pet Store puppies sold in.:(

I don't know too many breeders that would even SELL to a Pet Store :(

The bottom line is the majority of Pet Stores in this country buy FROM MILLS

then there's the pet 'auctions' taking place in secret....a whole nother sad story - it's sickening.

Legislators will never do anything really big or bold because of the income that's generated from the sales of thousands of puppies. IT just sucks that this country can't get it under control.

You're SO right - my mom has heard me talk about them ALOT - then she saw the Oprah show and called me - she had NO idea what I was really saying till she saw that show - I hope they do a follow up.

I missed it - I was at work :(

:thumbup: :thumbup:

I just want to add purchasing puppy from pictures on a website is wrong too. Many websites are no more than puppy brokers. Check out your breeder before buying.

No reputable breeder would sell to a petstore because they wouldn't know where those puppies were going. Those puppies must come from local backyard breeders...better I guess than buying from puppymills but still not good. I hate petstores :(

And many wonderful breeders don't even have websites. You can't just look at a pretty website and think the breeder is great...questions, questions, questions is key

Will this ever come to not being allowed pets? Come on...get real! That will never happen!!!
Really??? I for one am afraid if allowed to continue to push their agenda, it could. Not in our lifetimes, but at some future time. This is the future we are talking about. What will people do without companion animals?! How about how much they give to people who have no one else?! And the chaos of 'moving' these animals inot the wild?! How many innocent little lives wil be lost because of this??!!! I doill not support this agenda in any way.
~Melody

:thumbup: Never say never with these fanatics!! I believe there was a dictator not too long ago in Germany that people didnt pay much attention to until it was too late.

That's what I was thinking.

The second that we don't protect our rights is the second that they will be gone! If you let them they will try to legislate everything because it puts money in their pockets to do so. If they weren't constantly lobbying for new laws the legislators would have nothing to do and be out of a job.

This is just my opinion, but I think a lot of people buy from petstores on impulse, because reputable breeders and rescues won't sell to people with little kids, fenced yards etc. So it is easier for these people to go to petstores who don't care who's buying them and they can buy with a credit card. These are also the reason they end up in shelters not long after. Besides educating them as to the horrors of puppymills we need to educate on the responsibilities of dog ownership, which is a whole other problem. I don't know what the solution is but at least media attention will stop some people who may have gone to a puppymill before seeing this.

an idea
 

Most breeders use their business as a tax write off. What if breeders had to pay some kind of fee to help with the expense of shelters,etc. This might lower their profits enough to slow them down.. of course, it would probably end up like everything else....the ones that are legit. would pay and the others would not...

I agree:thumbup:
I feel that all of this media attention is a step in the right direction, educating the public is the key here. We can't loose sight of that!!
Many years ago when my children were young, we bought an Old English Sheepdog from a pet store, I was young and didn't know any better.
If I had any idea about puppymills then it would have been a different story.
Hopefully a lot of people will have their eyes opened now.

I could not agree with you more.

I cannot hardly believe some of the propaganda I've heard from some members who, I've found in the past, usually base their posts in fact.

I hope folks actually GO to PETA and read for themselves sometime. Here is what they think about companion animals: http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp

What in this universe makes everyone think that they have the end-all-be-all facts about PETA? I know I certainly don't - but my god, I've never seen so much propaganda tossed out in one day on YT. If you folks know all these pure facts that you're tossing out there - then for gosh sakes - where is the proof? Other than more propaganda articles?

This thread is actually making me nauseous, sick to my stomach. Because anytime a PETA issue comes up - I see blinders over people's eyes - the likes of which and the extent of which I *never* encounter on any other issue on YT - and it literally frightens me. It's the one thing that makes me consider leaving here.

I actually read a direct quote from the president or founder of PETA, and that is what I have based what I said on. I think the direct words out of that person's mouth was enough for me. And I've seen for myself some of the outrageous acts PETA has done to accomplish their goals.

Again
 

I just don't think that will happen. If people are serious about stopping puppy mills, they will do what it takes. Too many people are against the atrocities at puppy mills, yet they are pet lovers. They would never support banning pet ownership. While it is unfortunate that Peta and HSUS are tied up with banning pets, I think this is a representation of the radical end of the group. No way will the public accept banning pets. But, anyone will support the torture of dogs as seen in the puppy mills. Yes, IF people would stop buying from pet stores, it would dry up the demand. It is going to take putting teeth in the laws against puppy mills and those who buy from puppy mills (aka pet stores) for puppy mills to go out of business, that means changing the laws.

Again, I want to recommend the HBO documentary. HBO: I Am An Animal: The Story of Ingrid Newkirk and PETA. Although you've said you've seen it twice, there is plenty of proof in it to back up the statements made here today. Peta says it believes in the ethical treatment of animals, but has no problem deceiving other humans. They believe in infiltrating groups, posing as friends to others and using information they have obtained for their own purposes., an example of this would be the turkey exposé. Ms. Newkirk said in the documentary that she did not believe people should be allowed to have pets. This was slavery. Ms. Newkirk told a pet owner that the dog was sick and needed to see a vet. The owner released the pet in hopes that the dog would be receive treatment. The owner was notified that the dog had heartworms and was euthanized. I can't remember every detail in the documentary, but it sickened me as much if not more than Oprah's puppymill story. While Oprah's story on puppymills didn't reveal to me a situation of which I was not aware, the HBO documentary really opened my eyes. Peta really frightens me.

well i guess we all need to read before sending money or signing anything:) just like everything else do your home work:thumbup: it just makes me wonder if dogs were left to breed only in the wild would it end up like the cats here that are farrow and the county has given permission to shoot them because there are to many cats and they are really mean.

Ok, if Peta is not so bad, then how about this for their agenda: My friend worked at a company that makes some of the worlds best medical products and, yes unfortunately, greyhounds are used to test these products. These are the only kind of dogs that are used at this company. They are purchased only from one place. This companys product have saved millions of human lives over the years and is still in business today. Well, Peta thought they would start a commotion and "prove" that this company used strays and stole back yard pets for testing hoping to put this company out of business. So, Peta stategically dumped quite a few dead mix breed dogs over someones back-yard fence. Then proceded to go to the police and newspapers stating that this company needed to be investigated and shut down. The town was in an up-roar. Peta was thumping their chests. All was great for Peta until it was quickely discovered that this company only used greyhounds and the ethanized dogs were cremated not just dumped out in the forest or dumpster or back yard.

And, of course, Peta loves dog shows. They love to cause as much trouble and chaos as they possible can by letting the dogs waiting to be shown out of their crates to "run free". This, of course, causes car accidents sometimes resulting in the dogs death and lost scared and hungry dogs.

:eek: :eek: :thumbdown :mad: They sure do a lot of lying!

Handing this issue off to Congress is probably the worst possible solution. Public education is the only real answer. Puppy mills can't be abolished in one fell swoop but, with persistence, they can be eliminated. They're in it for the money and when an informed buying public starts making wiser decisions when purchasing a pet, they'll get out of the business and look for greener pastures. :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :)

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Ann I have so much admiration for you. You always stick up for what you know to be right even when it feels pointless.

For those who have completely closed their eyes and ears to PETA, please do not do the same to the HSUS. Animals NEED these large organizations looking out for their rights. These are the organizations that have the power to make a difference. Here is Charity Navigator's HSUS rating- http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde...ary&orgid=3848. It is rated 4 star and 79% of the money goes to program expenses. It's an organization you can be proud of making a donation to. Look at the legislations they are supporting and see if it is in line with your own beliefs- http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/. Look at what they are doing about an issue important to all of us, puppy mills- http://stoppuppymills.org/. Please don't base your opinions on propaganda, much of which is released by lobbiest working for industries that are hurt by animal welfare laws. Please don't base your opinions on one single quote made by one single person one single time. That can not possibly sum up the motivation behind two huge organizations.

Very well said. I agree.