puppy kindergarten and collars
 

My baby has started puppy kindergarten! We are very excited and she seems to enjoy it. The only problem that we are having is that the trainer insists that all dogs are on a collar and leash. Well, on the first day of class I brought Nomi in a harness and was frowned upon. I explained to the trainer that I was told to never attach a leash to my puppy's collar because it could put to much pressure on the dog's trachea. She told me that she has had other yorkies in her class and they all wore their leashes on their collars and that they were fine. Needless to say we finished that session using the harness. I don't want to be the difficult "doggie parent" in the class. Is it ok to just use the collar and leash while in class? Am I being too concerned?

I was like that at first with Paprika, she only was connected to a leash by harness. But, for training now, she is on a collar and when we go outside to potty she's on the collar but for long walks and car rides, she's harnessed up. It's up to you and what you feel comfortable. I would NEVER put a choke chain on any small dog, but a buckle color is fine in my mind. I'd go with your gut. If you aren't comfortable using the collar, then don't and if the trainer tells you otherwise, go somewhere else. You should never be forced to do something you don't when it's your dog. Hope this helped.

You just go ahead and be the difficult parent. If the trainer isn't familiar with small breed trachea issues she should at least take your word for it. It is not like your dog will not be under your control in a harness. What is her reason for insisting on the collar? If you would like to be compromising, you could ask her if a show lead would be a suitable alternative.

My trainer said collar for everyone except the small dogs because of their trachea..I didn't even have to go into it, if he has a problem I would tell him that maybe he should speak to your vet then about collapsed trachea and as a trainer he should know this. Be difficukt for your babies sake@!!

I can probably explain why the trainer said that, although the trainer should have explained it to you!

Our trainer doesn't like typical harnesses because it encourages dogs to pull. (Think sled dogs) The whole point of learning leash walking is to have the dog NOT pull. She recommends something called an Easy Walk harness. You can get them at Petsmart. The leash attaches in the front so when the dog pulls he turns himself around and it's very successful. Loki does great with the harness and we always use it for walks.

Also, we do use Loki's collar when he goes out to potty (always on a leash since we don't have a fenced yard) and it's fine. We do have a "sled" type harness and we use it in the car sometimes when he is in his booster seat. He's used to getting his harnesses on and off!! He is a bigger Yorkie though - almost 7 pounds.

He're a link to that product:
http://www.gentleleader.com/pages.cfm?id=74

When Mocha was in class my instructor said the same thing so the second class that i broguht Mocha to, I had a collar and her leash on and Mocha kept coughing so the instructor said next time, use a gentle leader.. i was using that with Mocha and she did AWESOME with it! I think when I get my new baby I will use the gentile leader

Thank you for posting that info about the Gentle Leader. I am going to take Bunny to PK. Hopefully the instructor won't give me a hard time bc I AM the difficult parent!!!

Her reasoning was like Erin said - it encourages pulling. I guess I felt that being as little as she is, there wouldn't be much of a pulling competition among us. She did well on the harness. I feel like we have already started out on the wrong foot with the trainer. I will definitely look into purchasing a show lead or a leader. Thanks for the link!

I dont want to sound like a bi*** or anything but I am a trainer also and your trainer seriously needs to do some more research about using collars. I was taught that small dogs are trained with harnesses. NOT COLLARS and we all know why. I am sorry but I would be the difficult parent and take some research in for her about the issues that these little dogs have with collars.

I know that harnesses teach a dog to pull, BUT, the way that I was told and taught to train was to teach the little dogs not to pull while in a harness. That is the whole point in paying a trainer.

I had the same problem in class. I think most trainers are used to the way things are done for big dogs and do not know enough about how the small pups need to be taught (especially terriers!). Look into the Gentle Leader Harnesses like others have said - they are great. Premier makes a really good one that we use. The leash attaches in the front so it is very hard for them to pull and keep moving straight ahead.

When I went to my puppy classes the same thing they had to wear a collar no harness.

Reconsmom, as a trainer, how do you teach a dog not to pull on a harness? Thus far, it hasn't been a problem for us. I just need more info. or techique to share with my trainer so we can continue using the harness.

I tell every new parent (of my puppies or others) that they are never to use a collar but always use a harness. I feel VERY strongly about that. I have seen wonderfuly trained Yorkies who did NOT pull just because they were wearing a harness. If one of my buyers told me that, I would go to class with them. A trainer knows all dogs; you know YOUR dog and what is best for him/her based on the experience of more than just a few breeders..I do not understand the reasoning for saying that a harness encourages pulling. The sled dogs are bred for sledding-it is in their genes. That is like apples and oranges....JMHO
Sorry about getting up on a soapbox but responsible breeders take so much time working with new owners of our puppies helping them to understand the reasons for their care..In the end, each owner must take care of their pet in the way that is best for their baby..

My vet even says that toy breeds should not wear collars!

Do the collar and leash--your puppy will be fine. Oscar is almost done with a 10 week beginner obedience (we'll soon be going on to intermediate). He would not have learned the things he learned in a harness. I do still use a harness for walks.
Animal Inn requires the chain collar, but they teach you the right way to use it and that it is ONLY for the times when you are training. These guys have a lot of experience at what they do. I was reluctant at first, but now I completely trust my instructors.
And before anyone gets upset, the training school I go to has AKC judges and has produced several national champions.
I'd just recommend trying it and then deciding. :)

My trainer said a harness is fine. Moxie seems to be doing well in it. He doesn't pull at all in fact it's the other way around LOL. Really he's catching on quite well LOL

I believe the reason trainers say that harnesses "encourage" pulling is because it is not uncomfortable for them to pull. With collars, pinches, and especially gentle leaders it usually doesn't hurt the big dogs, but is uncomfortable for them to pull and it helps to train them. It is harder to train a small dog not to pull because when they wear a harness it is not uncomfortable. My boys are so curious, they love to pull to their hearts' content when we are on walks and the harness does not discourage it because they feel no discomfort. Most of the time this works fine, but when we are walking in public I started using the no-pull harness where the leash hooks in front because it makes it hard for them to pull (it is not uncomfortable, but rather frustrating for them because every time they pull they walk to the side instead of forward). It makes a huge difference and they behave much better in public!

I use a "pinch collar" on Saffie & it works great for training. It's pretty scary looking but my trainer made each one of us put it on our arm first & she tugged & it didn't hurt or "pinch" at all. It just sort of makes a noise. She gave us handouts that had statistics on it stating that autopsies (sp) done on dogs (that had passed away from old age or whatever), showed that the dogs that had used choke collars regularly had trachaial injuries while the ones that had pinch collars did not. Saffie doesn't strain or surge with the pinch collar the way she would for a regular collar. If we're just going for a walk ( & not "working") then I use this great step in harness that I got from PetEdge.(It goes on like a bra.) I also use this harness to attach her to her car seat when we go in the car. :aimeeyork

I just want to say that we've been in training for 3 months and there is not one thing we have done that would have required a choke/pinch/chain collar. It's all positive training, no negative (punishment or correction). Our trainer just asks for a regular nylon collar or these easy walk harnesses. We never tug on the collar for correction, which I believe is the point of the metal collars. In fact, we could probably do our whole class with the dogs OFF their leashes. They aren't going anywhere with us holding treats in our hands!

I know different trainers and owners have different philosophies, I just wanted to let you know that if you are this concerned you should look for a class similar to ours. The collar is a non-issue because it's not even used to control the dog, your words and hand signals are.

By the way, the way we have tried to get Loki not to pull is to have food with us so his attention is on us and not the kid on the bike or the bird flying by. When he does well and walks with slack in the leash he gets a treat! When he pulls, you can't EVER let him get what he wants or gain any ground. When they start to pull you just stand still. They learn that pulling gets them nothing. There's a few other tricks our trainer uses. That's something your trainer should be able to share with you too!

Gentle Leader
 

This should make you feel better. Baxter was having problems with his leash and collar. He would pull and it would put preasure on his trachea. When we went to PetsMart for his training, they recommened the gentle leader. At first, I thought it was just so you would buy something from them. I tried it because he had problems with the leash and collar. I AM NOT JOKING-THE SECOND I PUT THAT LEADER ON, NO MORE PULLING! He walks RIGHT by my side, right where he is supposed to and does not run ahead. Eventually, he will get to the point where he doesn't have to use it, when he can go back to a leash and collar-when walking this way is "normal" for him-a habit.

Someone posted the product on the first page-that's what I use. It is a Godsend.

I don't understand why they would frown upon it-it's a training tool.

I know it will probably be hard to describe, but could someone try to help me fit my little Yorkie with his new Genle Leader? He is 1.6 lbs and 11 weeks old. His ears stand straight up and I think they may be causing somewhat of a problem. The neck part of the leader will not fit properly. If I try to fit it behind his ears and above his Adams apple the strap just falls to his shoulders, because there's not enough of a bulge in his skull to keep it snug. Hopefully this makes some sense to someone! I am sure I'm doing something wrong here. Please help! Thank you!! Tonia

I agree that a collar is best for training.

My pup wears a collar when we go out in the backyard. He actually never pulls hard on his collar. If he does ever start pulling (which he almost never does) -- I just give him more line and pull him back in when the line is loose. A lot of my keeping him on a loose line is the way I interact with him and manage him.

And - I definitely do agree that he "pulls" much harder when he is wearing a harness. Of course, this doesn't hurt him - but he certainly isn't behaving as well.

Carol Jean

The lady who trained moose had her wear a collar and lead, but moose wouldn't leave my side so I wasn't very concerned. Now the trainer had a guest come who trains service dogs. I was thrilled because I want to get moose to be my service dog. Well she scared me to death, I didn't even let her take moose's lead. When I told her that I wanted to have moose become my service dog she said I could join their training but would have to get moose a pinch collar...um NO. She told me well then fine I'm not training her for you, I said how about the gentle leader, she says I have small dogs on pinch collars and they are just fine I don't like the gentle leader. So I said no thank you and the lady who trained moose told me I could do her training myself and if I needed any help to contact her.

So right now moose uses a harness but I am starting her training for helping me soon, my trainer said to wait till she was a year if I could so moose would be a little less rowdy, and will be using the gentle leader. So wish me luck :rolleyes:

Now do you use the harness or the muzzle type?