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other than that I'm going to stay out of this thread...there have already been plenty of debates on chocolates and it's pretty clear where the YTCA and AKC stand on them |
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That is not why YTCA banned chocolate yorkies. They banned them because they, as well as all the other designer colors, are incorrect. They did not ban them from being registered as AKC. Showing is for exhibiting your breeding stock and these designer colors are faults and shound not be bred or included in showing for that reason. they never said anything about rare breeds. |
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Parti and chocolate are not "Designer colors", they are Yorkshire terriers who carry recessive genes for those colors, just like Blue and tan yorkies carry a dominate gene for gray. Don't be fooled, many of those blue and tan dogs also carry "hidden" recessive genes for chocolate and parti too (as we've seen) ... but I guess that's A-OK, just as long as you don't know it or don't see it? Seems strange though, that the off colored Black and tan, Black and gold and Blue and gold Yorkies were allowed to show and win, prior to the disqualification rule but now they are no longer allowed to show. Of course since no age limit was voted on, as to when a pups coat had to turn blue by, I have a feeling that some black coated dogs will still show - just stating that their dog is slow to turn blue. I guess time will tell on that one. |
[QUOTE=Pinehaven;1548556] Parti and chocolate are not "Designer colors", they are Yorkshire terriers who carry recessive genes for those colors, just like Blue and tan yorkies carry a dominate gene for gray. Don't be fooled, many of those blue and tan dogs also carry "hidden" recessive genes for chocolate and parti too (as we've seen) ... but I guess that's A-OK, just as long as you don't know it or don't see it?{Quote} I think the breeder will call it that but you are so right that word is really confusing "designer". I'm sure no expert in registration but isn't that why it is important these faults be registered so we know where they are in a line:confused: |
This argument goes on and on. The people that breed the "off colors" will never understand the yorkshire terrier standard simply because they have no desire to. That would mean that what they are doing is wrong, there I said it... I have seen some of us called chocolate haters which is ridiculous, I have never hated any little dog, I doubt anyone here has. What I DO hate is for breeders to muddy up the perception of it so that people think they are getting something fabulous when in fact they are getting just what they are called, an off color. |
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I've done studying on some of the new parti bloodlines and I just can't find any common links at this point because there many are generations of traditional colored carriers. It's not just the pups' mom and dad who are carriers but one of each of their grand parents, one of each of their great grand parents .... and on and on. |
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Something To Think About pg. 213 from "the complete yorkshire terrier' by gordon and bennett quote: The people who wove the description of the Yorkshire Terrier into a breed standard were very adept at animal husbandry. For nearly on hundred years their knowledge, which gained them advancement in the days of carriage trade, has stood to the advantage of the Yorkie maintaining the breed's distinguishing points. The new scientific understanding of color pigmentation of hair can bu used to ensure us better Yorkies. It must be realized that we can no longer think only in terms of Mendelian genetics, where we have simple dominant and recessive effects governing the development of a trait. We are dealing multiple genes affecting the hairs coloration, each pair of genes (alleles) contribute to the desired trait. Each has a recessive and dominant form, but it is the number of gene pairs and their independent behavior from the other contributing genes during the process of recombination at fretilization that makes for the attainment of the Yorkies' desired prime important points of coat color and texture. end quote excuse mistakes I was typing fast to get this in one post |
This is why getting the correct coat in texture, color, and quantity is such a challenge for breeders. I can honestly say that as a breeder I will never get bored with Yorkies! |
I call them designer colors because of the people that are purposefully breeding to get these faulty colors. I forgot that the labradoodle and the puggle, etc are called by some people designer dogs. I just call them mixes or mutts. |
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I really dont need anyone to tell me what a mutt is. And , yes, there might be alot of people surprised when and if they can do a test to see what is in the background of a dog, especially the byb crowd. But I doubt very much if the died in the wool reputable, experienced breeders/exhibitors will have much to worry about. |
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Sorry, but what I found, was that a mutt is a dog that you DON'T know what breed it is..Now, say you did a dna test on your little girl, and you happened to find out she had something mixed in with her, are you going to call her a mutt?? I'm sure there are a lot of people on here, that have a morkie, or some other breed, that DOESN'T appreciate you calling their dog a mutt! You have your own opinion, and I have mine! |
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But I betcha the few reputable breeder/exhibitors that did get ripped off had the dog in question spayed and/or neuterd and any resulting pups sold on limited registration and spay/neuter contracts. They just didnt go on perpetuating a major fault in the standard. I also didnt know that mutt was a derogitory word. It just means mixed breed. |
what is your problem why do you keep bashing this color. It is this womans choice to breed these puppies and she sells them if people do research before buying a puppy they know that it is not a normal color for a yorkie but, they like someting different not everyone wants to show. |
I didnt know I had a problem. I believe the question was "what is a chocolate yorkie?" A chocolate yorkie is what it is, a color fault. I call them designer colors as they are bred on purpose. |
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In the old days before genetics was understood, I can see where a pup of a different color, was thought to resulted from breeding to the wrong stud, thus culling the pup or the litter. Problem was, Mom carried the gene too, so where did she get it from? |
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When you say culling, do you mean spay/neuter and put in a pet home? Not using incorrect colors for breeding purposes? Why you all continually speculate that this goes on every day in reputable breeders homes is just beyond me, I am assuming to further your point:confused: . I do know of a breeder that got a chocolate, she S/N both parents and the puppy. Do you consider that culling? It is wrong to accuse reputable breeders of doing something to gain a sympathy vote, yet I see the same argument every time. It ALWAYS comes up. AGAIN, nobody is saying you should not LOVE a chocolate, what the "Supporters of the Standard" are saying is you should not BREED one! Geez... that is kind of catchy...maybe I will start a new club:rolleyes: |
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Look at the Nikko's lines, it's not just the BYB breeders that have off colors show up. |
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Whether you spay/neuter, give away with or without papers, hide in the closet or dispose of it because of it's color (though it carries the same genes as many previous descendants), that's what I mean by cull - something being rejected especially as being inferior or worthless (other than for loving), just due to it's color. If you want to cull the pup and it's parents, you also need to cull the rest of the bloodline - unless you can find where the gene was originally introduced. |
Is the only show kennel you ever talk about is Nikko. Want to elaborate on some other top exhibitor kennels? I for one would really like to know who has these faulty colors and stay away from those lines. The only breeder/exhibitors I know have never come up with an off color in 25 years. These breeders are very careful in placing their puppies and with spay/neuter contracts so they dont get into byb hands or people who will just breed indiscriminately. I enquired about a Nikko dog over 20 years ago and was told by them that once you buy a dog from them, it is yours. There was no contract or stipulations on the puppy. So, who knows what breeders got their hands on them. They may have a contract now, I really dont know. |
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In the case of my parti, he's all Nikkos, at least 5 generations, tracing back champion Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley and no one but Nikkos had their hands on his breeding. Many of the parti yorkies, trace back to Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley. As for other show lines producing color, there are some I've heard produce color or I routinely see certain prefix's showing up in pedigrees that produce color but I try to discuss facts and not guesses or hearsay as to where the color is coming from. The Nikkos line is the best known, traced and documented line of parti producers. |
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And as far as the 'true meaning' of the word "mutt"--it is what you make it out to be. I always thought of any dogs that isn't purebred as a mutt...even if you know what breeds it is comprised of. To me, the term 'mixed' is a far worse term to toss around. |
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