No I really don’t believe I have missed the point what I understand is that you are ganging up on somebody that has been taken and none of you seem to care and if it took this for her to collect her money then so be it. And all these people who bought dogs from Deb what would’ve happened if you would’ve handed the money to Deb and then said Oh yeah well I’ll get back to you in a couple years???? And so what if the woman wants her money back now Deb owes it to her! Debbie is lucky she isn’t getting sued Because in the end it would’ve affected Deb’s credit and she would’ve had to pay out a lot more money than just returning the initial amount. This is business! Like I said if all of you feel so strongly about this and what a great person Deb is then reach deep into your pockets and help the woman out, any takers? So the expression goes put your money where your mouth is.

Not exactly where you got that version of what happened. She was "ordering" a dog for breeding purposes. Not EVERY litter of pups has one of the quality she was looking for. She was going to wait until Deb had what she wanted and unfortunately things happened and there wasn't a dog. While you can say it is one person's fault, it is TWO that it went on for so long. The breeder who posted this did it without any warning .. just up one day decided she wasn't going to breed any more due to health issues and got on here and posted a "beware" thread. She has asked what other avenues she could have tried, admitting she tried no others. No letters, no messages..nothing...it was a blindside. She claims telephone messages .. I don't know about that but I will bet my last nickel this was, as I call it, a blindside because she one day decided she didn't want to breed any more OR just needed money and thought this would be a way to get it.

Your suggestion that others pay this is ridiculous....totally ridiculous. We post an opinion and you say we should pay? Laughable at best. First of all, I am going to say what I said before....I would NOT be as nice about this as Deb has been. You think Susan could sue her? For what? The amount of time?....I seriously doubt they discussed that when she originally gave Deb the money. She will get her dog or her money. Deb has not denied having the money FOR A DOG. One thing I know is that Deb is an honorable person. I don't for one minute believe she set out to rip off Susan .. although Susan has said it was theft. I might be inclined to help someone I like financially...but, not for something or shall I say "someone" like this. I think it was a mean spirited attempt to make Deb look bad.

And, yes, again...you DID miss the point here. I find it disgusting that a breeder would get on here and bash a breeder who is not harming the breed. Loosely defined you could claim it is a breeder review; but it isn't that at all. It is a bashing of one breeder by another.

no blindside
 

Deb has had plenty of warning and ample opportunity to straighten this out. I prefer to communicate by email. Deb never answers by email. She phones. This is an old crooked breeder trick so there's no trail. Heck this puppy she wants to send me is nothing like the original deal was supposed to be.

"crooked breeder trick" ... you are a real charmer, lady.

Plenty of warning that you were going to get on YT with the intent of bashing her? Taking action to get money back that is owed is one thing....what you did here went beyond that.

This latest post just solidifies everything I believe about this entire matter. Karma is a witch.

And one more thing....what puppy?? You didn't mention that Deb was trying to send you a puppy....
What is wrong with the puppy? Or, is it just because you want money now that you are not wanting the puppy you say she offered to send. Talk about confusing...

As for the kind of puppy you want, I have to wonder about all of it. I mentioned Cruz in a previous post and you said he was a "cute little dog"... LOL on your website it said he was the number 6 Yorkshire Terrier in the US in I think 2012?? You were kind of saying he was just "OK" ... And, you sell puppies for approximately $3,000. I must be missing something.

I doubt any puppy at this point would satisfy you. You don't want to breed anymore and you have had health issues and apparently just want money. So, why not just say it rather than bash the quality of a puppy she wants to send.

This is all about as clear as mud. You buy a puppy...you change your mind and want money...but talk to her about a puppy and then say it isn't the quality you want. SMH I should probably ignore this thread from here on...... not that I always do what I should do.

..."crooked breeder trick" - what an awful thing to say. Wow. I am speechless that you (the original OP) think this is ok to say. I am going to offer my apologies to Deb Sillers - you certainly do not deserve this.

you don't know the whole story-
 

Ask Deb how it all started. Since last week we are in negotiations for her to send me a puppy. I do not believe that breeding is of the same quality we were discussing 2 years ago. The original deal fell through because of supposed dead puppies and a sick mother dog. I wonder if she bred Lily again after that. It's been 2 years of hard luck stories. Now I'm to pay an additional $450 to ship a puppy I no longer even need for breeding. I'll have $3450 invested in a dog I will be lucky to place as a pet for $1500. My friends and family are advising against going with that plan because they have no faith she'll send a good puppy. They're afraid to see me now get stuck with a sick puppy I'll have to spend even more money on.

Makes me wonder how many times you did this that you would point a finger at another breeder and make that comment. I hate emails in trying to explain something that is important, sometimes emails get taken out of context, here Deb responds in the old fashion way by using the telephone, something people don't do these days, she takes the time to talk to you, that's how things that involve money should be handled,not emails or texting and you call it an old crooked breeder trick. You as a breeder bashing another breeder only shows what kind of a person you really are. You are doing more harm to yourself then good. Now a puppy you are being offered is not good enough for you. You wrote Deb kept making excuses for no puppy, now you are being offered one and it's not like the original deal, now it is you making one excuse after another. All I can say is just WOW, there is no pleasing you it seems.

I am not asking Deb ... I am referring to YOU and YOUR WORDS. That is all. If I were Deb, I would consider an action against you after the comments you just made. I sure as hell would not send you a puppy because I would not trust what you might say or do to or with that puppy. If I were to advise her, i would say to offer you some kind of payment plan and be done with you. She immediately got on this thread and said she owes you money...she definitely didn't come off "crooked"... I am astounded by your words here.

I also don't care about what your "friends and family" think. Apparently you had no problem with the way Deb communicates in the past...but you do now. Now you call it an "old breeder trick"...so why did you get involved with a breeder you think was crooked??? Words matter and I think you should slow down and THINK before typing them.

BTW: I have never heard of Deb selling sick puppies...yet another nasty insinuation by you.

Oh please..... SMH

:yeahthat:

Sometimes I am a bit slow. You claim you will be lucky to place as a pet for $1,500?!?! Your website clearly states you sell them for $2575 to $3690.
Screenshot here:

Attachment 413146

I really hate drama, but this is getting crazy!
The truth is the last email I've received from you was in March of 2018. Which you stated, as always to call you. What an insult to say I don't want to leave a paper trail. You've always called, and I couldn't care less about a paper trail. In fact, I encourage text to everyone calling me to have a trail to go by.
The truth is you called the day before the post, which immediately I texted that I was in an important meeting with the Sr. Crisis Center, and would call you back the next day.. which I did before I was alerted to the post. I also called back after I read the post, because I was so shocked that you had posted. I had no idea you were upset, and you knew I had a female about ready to send. Which is also insulting, since you know I would never send inferior quality to anyone!
I was supposed to ship this female last Monday, but you decided to wait since you had puppies due May 3rd, so we were going to ship after the puppies came. You said you'd call me when they were born. I'm at a loss on how to make you happy.
When I found out you were sick with the same issues that I have, I offered to sell this female for you. However, a quick sale is a pet sale. Since I sell my pets for less than you sell yours, I'd have to make payments on the balance.
I've offered you a refund, or I've offered this female. I don't know what you're wanting of me.
I'm trying to work with you, but you continue bashing me. I'm really sorry it took so long to get you the right breeding female. I'm just sick it has come to this.

Some true, some not--
 

Ladyjane's distortions and flourishes have made me really ugly. She twists everything I write into something else and I feel I should come on and defend myself.
Some of what you say here is true, some is not. I stopped trying to communitcate via email when you kept responding to emails with phone calls. I switched to the phone for communication with you. Sometimes you answered my calls, sometimes you ignored my voicemails. Now you say you replied to my demand call with a text. I don't use text messaging and never open that ap except once in a while by accident.
I'm pretty sure I let you know I was upset when you sold to someone else a female you'd promised to me last year. You said the reason was that her back had roached and you felt that rendered her unacceptable for my purposes. Why on earth did it not occur to you to contact me then and explain the situation? I was making kennel and breeding plans around her. That might have been a great opportunity to discuss a partial refund.
Think back to when this all started. I originally paid you for a young adult female and an interest in the litter of puppies she was carrying. I told you then she would be my last dog as I was winding down my kennel and preparing for retirement. When I contacted you about when you would be shipping her and my share of the litter you informed me half the litter had died though I was welcome to a male of the two surviving puppies. The dam, Lily, had had eclampsia and was looking frail, possibly from diabetes. Again, I learned this by contacting you, not you reaching out to me. Nevertheless, we decided there was no point in you shipping me a non-breedable female, and I didn't need a male puppy. I even sold the male for you from this great distance. You placed him with one of my referral customers for the price I was getting. In retrospect, I should have taken him myself, but I was still hopeful this would work out and grateful my life wasn't as complicated as yours. Months turned into years and this recent missed communication has culminated in this mess.
To clarify, after the original YT post you did phone and we agreed you'd ship a female puppy last Wednesday. The travel nanny had to reschedule and I requested a postponement due to a litter due. It's pretty much a day trip to the airport and back and I didn't want to be away from home.
I'm quite ill and putting my affairs in order in anticipation someone else will have to take over at some point. This transaction with you was the most complicated of all. My sister was less than supportive when I said I was paying another $450 to ship a puppy here now. You've never offerred a refund though you did mention you might if your circumstances changed. What makes ladyjane think I can sell your puppy for my price? There's always a chance of that, but right now I have puppies of my own breeding to sell.
Anyway, Lulu's babies are safely here and I just received oxygen tanks to drive around with so I can go to the airport without involving my sister, so please call me about that.
If ladyjane really wants to help, she should stay off this thread until it's over.

LMAO ... you get on here with your impulsive posts and nasty attacks and now blame me for calling it all exactly what it is? I twist things? LOL were you looking in the mirror as you typed that? You have behaved poorly in my opinion and that isn't my fault. You also KEPT getting on here coming back at me. Even this morning you post the above nonsense and then suggest I should stay off the thread. :rolleyes::D:rolleyes: The thread should not have BEEN here in the first place .. THAT is what I said from the start and stand by it. There WAS another way, but you didn't even try. It was and IS highly offensive that you chose to malign Deb as a breeder even stooping so low as to accuse her of being a thief and crooked.

As to your own breeding....you have BEEN breeding Deb's pups all along. How many have been in your lines? THAT is why I said something about the price .. I would love to see how many pups you have sold over the years for $1,500; and also would love to see how many of Cruz's pups (and any other of Siller's dogs) for over your bottom line of over $2,500.

I honestly don't care what you think of me. I am happy to have shown Deb some support because she is a kind person and, in my opinion, did not deserve the vitriol. What you did went beyond the pale.

This is a public forum and we all need to think long and hard about the fact that others will read and/or respond to things we post. It may not always be what we want to read/hear.

It's difficult to post on a public forum and then try to dictate who should respond; and even harder, how they should respond. Had you wanted people to stay "off the thread" until it was over, perhaps it should not have been posted in the first place?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sorry it has taken so long....as promised, I have posted Ariel's story (see link below). I am not sure Ariel would have made it if not for Deb Sillers. She spent SO much time with me on the phone helping me with this puppy and it was not her puppy. I am so grateful to her and so admire her for her absolute love of the breed. I have seen her help countless others on this forum and have sent people to her who had sickly puppies. She always makes time to help others save their puppies.

https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/si...ml#post4790115

Update
 

I promised an update once my business with Deb was concluded, and here it is:
About one month ago I received a nice puppy I named Poppy. She appears perfectly sound and of nice structure. She's a sweet thing and fits in nicely with my pack.
Yesterday, with Deb's coaching, I successfully completed the online AKC registration for Poppy. This concludes my business with Deb. I don't really regret posting here as I believe that action leveraged a conclusion to this transaction. I am sorry about the damage to Deb's reputation, but this is business. She will overcome this because she does produce good Yorkies. Through what I think may be her own naivete, Deb got tangled up in a mess of horrible circumstances but is making progress getting back on track. I wish her the best.

Yes it was business, but you made it personal by slandering Deb on this forum, you set out to damage Deb's image, I don't believe you're sorry at all, as you don't regret posting it here. I have never had dealings with Deb nor you, but I will say this, after your actions I would never recommend you to anyone as I do for Deb. All I can say is, you as a breeder shame on you.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Totally agree. Shameful, all of it.