A little honesty (be for real) about newspaper adverts (Pat, Mary please come in)
 

also anyone that would venture a guess is welcome, but this is not a debate thread. I just want to know what this is about, for real (of course we get nothing less from Pat and Mary).

I've read in the Yorkies for Sale section someone stated that they though that most good breeders wouldn't sell dogs in the newspaper or such. I've seen other posts over the last couple of years eluding to the fact that you shouldn't have to advertise at all. One poster had posted outright asking about it a year ago and others that were around at the time (that are not hanging in this forum nowadays) stayed away from it like the plague. But I'm sure you ladies will hit the nail on the head and resolve any questions in our minds.

It probably means that word of mouth brings in clients. But is there a sterotype involved or a looking down upon?

Of course, the first year or so we don't have much of a client base yet to spread the word, how long does it take for that? We develop good relationships with the owners and are own hand if needed. Mine are all scattered in Florida and the US, but I advertise. Advertising on YT is also advertising. Thank you, for clearing this up in my mind ladies.

Susan

With so many people breeding yorkies right now the market is flooded. For those of us that are newer to this endeavor, I don't think we have a choice but to advertise. There iare 9 ads for yorkie pups in my local paper this morning. I won't sell a full registered pup that way but I do think that it's a great way to get them on the phone. Once they are calling I can interview prospective buyers as well as educate them. I'm not trying to make money, I'm trying to make a name. In the meanwhile I have to find good homes for my pet quality pups.

:thumbup: Everything Tami said is true. I have one that I am fixing to advertise in the paper next weekend. The market is flooded and the problem here in kentucky is that there are so many 400-500. dogs advertised. of course, if I put one in at say, 900., they are going to buy the 400. one people here just don't know and really don't care about health warranties and etc as long as the dog is cheap. Even most breeders here are dumb. A lady had some in the paper the other day advertised as "rare color'. She said they are light, silvery blue and gold. i called just to antagonize her. I asked what the bloodline is, she didn't have a clue and had no pedigree to look at. Then, i said, well, I was just wondering if they are Judabob because that is what I have and that color is very common and I have about six that color and they are not rare at all. Thanks". Then this past weekend someone advertised a Very tiny teacup" for 2,700. i didn't call about that one but oh, I wanted to. Sorry, I got off topic a little.

Hey Tami

i have a serious question and i mean no disrespect at all when asking. and i understand the passion on breeding for the standard and perfecting the breed. but how can a breeder say they arent in it for the money when they charge 1000 + for puppies, and they limit the registration? there is deffinately a profit made. 5 puppies = 5000.00. ( i dont know what you charge, im just curious) i dont think there is anything wrong with someone saying i love the breed, i love too breed and perfect the breed and make some money while im doing it.

Thanks

:thumbup:

I agree. What about those that advertise in the magazines? (Dog World, Dog Fancy etc)I would rather place my pets in a home near by so I can see them at times. I also do free grooming for my local owners.

As far as making any money, I wish I did. After all the vet bills there is not much left over. All my pets are sold already spayed/neutered, any retained baby teeth are pulled, all shots are done by my vet. I probably bought my vet a new car in the last year LOL
There is also the shows to pay for.
No money......but I LOVE it.

Hey jan
its sounds like you put a lot of money in your babies, all the vaccines and the spay/neuture, so it also sounds like you have them for a longer time.so yes i agree there wouldnt be much of a profit there and of course your showing. i havent learned much about the showing aspect yet and the cost...

thanks

I've only been showing a year this month. I love it.
I do keep my babies longer than most. If I let them go before spay/neuter I have contract stating no papers till done. I also do a lot of follow up. I have been blessed with the fact that all my babies have gone to wonderful, happy,loving homes. I have made many friends with the owners.

thats good, i think that its neccessary to keep in touch. when i sold little girls pups i got to keep in touch with 2 out of 3. its nice to see pics. one of them i wished i hadnt sold she was soooo cute!! they werent pure they were yorkie poms, but this one puppies looked like a tiny doll faced yorkie but her colors were sable where the black normally is and the usual brown on the face and paws. she will not be bigger than 3lbs. im not crazy about the tiny ones but she was just too cute.

i love puppies

I do not advertise in the papers either. I have in the past when we had moved, but had calls all day and into the night. I got some really weird people calling too. Some people were were nice, but I just do not have time to weed out the calls. But then again - I do not have litters that often. I do show and have that expense besides vet care. I do have strict spay/neuter contracts for pets or will have them spay/neuter before sold if for pet and older. My vet will not spay and neuter young pups - has to do with bone development.
I do get emails for pups. I really hate though the ones that email me and just ask - "Do you have any pups and how much?" I try to not answer these. Sometimes if in the mood I will let them know this is not the way to ask. You need to tell me about yourself first. I do have a waiting list at times, but I only go through the list and weed them out when I have a litter. Yes, I do interview and check references. You have these days.
T.

Susan,

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I can only speak for myself and other show breeders that I know on a personal basis. I don't advertise, I don't have a website and my puppies that I don't keep have a home before I plan the breeding and I have a waiting list. New families are either by referral or repeat buyers.

I have my opinion on how this has transpired and it's only my opinion. I don't breed to sell puppies, I breed for myself. I didn't begin breeding until I obtained a wonderful mentor, learned everything I could about showing, breeding, whelping and Championed a few dogs from a great line; became a member of a regional specialty club, all breed club and YTCA. Getting your face and dogs out there, letting judges know that you will consistantly bring them a good dog. Letting people get to know you and know that you are serious about the breed always helps. For me there was no short cut.

I know that showing isn't for everyone, but since this is the way I did it and it worked for me, I don't know of any alternative way of doing it.

No offense taken Tammy. If it was just for the money I'd probably get to keep some of the money but it kinda runs through my hands. Vet bills add up, this litter we're over $1000. so far, the show in Roanoke will set me back at least $550., advertising has set me back $120., quality food is $50. every time I purchase. Then there's the time, I get up around 5:00 to clean puppy pens, feed and spend time socializing before work. You come home and you clean, feed and take them all out for a run. Everyone who comes to look at a pup stays an hour or two. You don't go out to dinner cause you don't want to leave them alone for too long. If I keep going I could talk myself out of this little hobby of mine!! I said that I breed for a name because that is what I'm trying to establish, a line and a reputable name. I'm in this for the long hall and hope to have an established line with some great champions in it by the time I retire in 20 years or so. It's not a fast buck for me but a passion and something I hope to pass on someday.

There is no profit in breeding, especially if you only breed 1 or 2 litters a year.

There are prescreening tests for the sire and dam. Special nutrition for the dam prior to whelping and especially after whelping. Possible emergency vet visit if the there is a problem with the whelping. Supplies for whelping. Vet check for the dam after whelping Not to mention possible time off from work prior to the whelping and after the puppies are born. Vet checks/shots (minimum of 2) for puppies. Special examinations for puppies to ensure they are of sound structure, eye specialists, ear specialists, temperament tests. Not to mention the countless hours of no sleep, watching the dam, making sure the pups are nursing and getting enough food. Weaning, training, socializing the new pups. Litter registration fees, getting a puppy package ready for the new families, + being on call for these families. You are lucky if you break even....

Don't you just hate those e-mails. I answer them very politely and ask them to contact me by phone. I just feel e-mails don't show an effort or a real desire.

I do advertise my puppies, not especially in the paper because it is about 120.00 for around 10 words for a week and there are cheaper places to advertise. I had to advertise because I am new and I made a website and the only way to get my name out there and for people to look at my website is to advertise. I spent a fortune last year doing it. It is a very expensive hobby and there isnt alot of money to be made doing it like some would think but if it werent for advertising I would still be sitting here with my puppies that no one knew I had. One day when I have a waiting list I wont have to put such a large amount into advertising but until them I will. I have learned from last year the places that are worth your while to advertise and the ones not to waste my money on so that will help.

I get those emails also that say "Any puppies, how much?" I dont like those either and that is why I put a questionaire on my website to weed out those. I email them back and tell them yes or no and if they are interested go to the website and fill out the questionaire. I dont give out my number or address until I have someone I would sell a dog to. No annoying calls that way.

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At one time our Yorkie club advertised in the Washington Post...Morris Howard was in charge of it. He ran an ad every few months...Yorkies have not always been easy to sell. I had a litter of champion-sired females (4) about 20 yrs back..I asked $500 for the three I was selling..all were nice girls, not tip top show quality, but good bitches for any foundation...I had no calls for weeks...I ran an ad and sold one, reduced another to $450 and sold her..gave the 4th to a breeder friend for puppies back when she bred her, hoping for a better selling time.

I have seen a time when you could not give a literally male puppy away...then two things happened...I hung around long enough to become known where I lived and Yorkies got POPULAR!!! AND the internet changed the world!!!!

I see nothing wrong in advertising in the local newspapers...I know show breeders who do this...caring for a puppy for months, waiting for a call is not in the puppies best interest IMO...a breeder only has so much time and attention to give...the number one problem I hear is the breeder did not house train and the dog is 6 or 8 months...

I liked some of the web sites..like Shooterdog, Breeders.net, lets people find you instead of the puppymiller...your vet is a wonderful spokesman for a breeder, groomers also. Don't like puppyfind, puppynet and this type of site...

I had business cards made and put them in vets offices.( as dozens of other show breeders do) ...I am not a fan of advertising on pet forums because I see so many problems come from it.

I tell a breeder to do what they feel is ethical, live with your decision..I never defend my decisions regarding my dogs..it is no ones concern but mine...breeders are going to talk about other breeders, you can do everything they think is right and they will still talk about you..so do what you feel is best for your puppies...

As to making money...you can make a lot of money in dogs, I never had the heart to do what it takes...if you put the dog first,as a rule you are lucky to break even over its life time...

Thanks for the replies and insight everyone. It's been extremely helpful, as I've been considering going to shows and learning for the future. I'd love to have approval over my breeding stock, (which is very tiny but will def. require a change in the bitch for sure) but I'm thinking about the future. I'd love to look back 20 years from now and have accomplished such a task as a few here have. It's enlightening to here views concerning showing and non showing.

I agree with you there, And the Vet bills on my dogs that get an illness etc. emergency whelping assistance, emergency care on a bitch that suddenly developed pymetria,
sending a bitch to be bred, paying the flight cost, plus stud service, plus c section that I didn't think would have to be as none of mine have needed a c section only to have two dead pups. Cost in total over $1000 and no pups for me or anyone else. And that's just off the top of my head.
Testing my show/breeding stock and finding the best Vet I can that I know will know what they are looking at in the results. None of these Vets seem to have their clinic anywhere that close by and at minimum I end up an hours drive away one way and sometimes more. Gas here is about $4 + a gallon.
Then there is show costs and time away from work while at dog shows, dog show supplies, entry fees getting there and back. Time away from work awaiting a whelping and until the pups are well on their way that I can leave them a bit longer which is why I have my own dog grooming business that has no benefits no paid leave, no paid medical leave, no paid holiday time, no pension plan.
On another thread, I mentioned a dog I sold, got back 6 mos. later as the owner did not listen to what I told her to do and not do and ruined his temperment. I spent 3 mos of Obedience training with some excellent trainers I work with at my expense to get his confidence back and refunded some of the purchase price to the woman that originally bought him. After all the work and money I put into him, he is doing much better and was rehomed for a small part of what I likely could have sold him for but i knew this was a good home and it is, he is doing great.
Then there was the dog I sold at 3 years of age for $300 that I spent about $1000 on to find out she can't carry a litter including the spay, got back at 14 years when the owner died suddenly of a heart attack. I spent another $500 for her Vet care blood tests dental, etc and she died 4 mos later of kidney failure old age related. I made how much?
Then there was the pup I sold at 12 weeks, developed seizures a month later, I paid for testing and meds, chiro, massage therapy. He outgrew it by a year or so old, is now 8 years old and doing fine. The owner never told me until he was over a year old and weaned off the meds that she dropped him on his head the day she got him which likely is what caused the seizures. You think I got any money back for the Vet bills I covered that turned out to be likely the owners fault? Try no.
This scenario, if you take responsibility for your dogs and puppies is not unusual.
Pups I sell have all three puppy vacc's and most of the time are spayed/neutered which helps get rid of prospective buyers that want to buy sign nonbreeding but breed anyway and sell unregi. or register with a bogus registry.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
And as another breeder show friend told me and likely YorkieRose did too, it doesn't matter if you advertise in newspapers etc, your screening is going to be the same anyway.
I agree with you though also on advertising on pet forums, not something I would ever entertain to do.
My new website is out there to give the info for anyone looking for a reputable breeder and what that would look like. I don't sell puppies on my website, it invites enquiries only and provides a bunch of info. If you haven't seen it yet, I will invite anyone to peruse my site and no nothing on there is for sale and I have nothing for sale this year.
http://loribenyorkys.com/

Just to clairify the cost factor for the puppies. If you breed only dogs that have been check for health and liver shunt tested that will cost you approx 1500 in the midwest, then caring for the bitch while pregnant, x-rays, vitamin supplements another 300.00. Most yorkies DO NOT(within the standard) have 5 puppies, anywhere from 1 - 4 (if your lucky). Then if you have to by chance have a C-section add another 1000.00 and then there is the cost of tails being docked, figure about 30-40 per pup, and if you keep the puppies as long as you should, at least 12 weeks, there is the cost of the shots for them another couple hundred per pup. Add food costs, health checks, bile acid checks, to make sure if you do sell one or two they are healthy. All this applies only to puppies that are healthy, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to have some illness go through the litter figure about another 1000.00. Then if you send your pop out with crate is it used to, toy, food to start with, add some more. You also have the cost of the post whelp check for the mom. Then if you are a show person, you are not going to sell the entire litter, because the reason you bred in the first place was to get a show puppy, so maybe, if you are real lucky, you just broke even. Breeders that do adhere to the standard usually are breeding for show quality, rather than pet quality dogs, and are much more particular in the dogs they select to breed.

Here is my 2 cents, for whatever its worth. I have had two litters prior to the one I have now. I put both in the local newspaper and then I also had signs up in the supermarkets. I have sold all (only 7 puppies) and now I have two more. I think both are sold already. I honestly think if you have a decent puppy, in standard and healthy, after a few litters the puppies will eventually sell from word of mouth, but you need to be above all honest with what you are selling. I tell people straight out, my puppies are not show potential, they are pets. If someone is looking for a show dog I tell them I most likely do not have what they want. (doesn't mean that my dogs aren't perfect) I think that are!;)

And Karen, your dogs are. I enjoyed our visit and meeting Petey for the first time, but seeing Bell, and espiecially Lily, Harley's daughter. I feel the same about my babies. Like you, I believe that I have high pet quality puppies that I want to go to loving forever homes. I have been so lucky to be able to do that even since Lexie throws these huge litters. We raise our babies right in our homes, socialize them, and train them to be a good pet. I love getting emails and little gifts from families who have "my" babies. Did you know that I got a post card from Hawaii...yes one of Lexie's sons went to Hawaii with his new parents!!