Question about "roach back"
 

Percy seems to have ended up with a roach back, unless his front legs shoot up another inch which I don't think is going to happen at this point. :(

I am a little upset b/c when I was at the breeders I asked to see the parents and both of them had a nice top line. All the papers matched as well. There had been all the correct testing done on the bitch and stud. At the time, he seemed to be topping out nicely, the same as his litter mates. Now, not so much.

Since we will most likely be getting a brother or sister for Percy, i want to know how to avoid this in the future. Can parents that have a nice top line have a puppy that ends up roached? Percy was "older" when we got him, so I thought we were ok, at what age can you tell if this is going to happen?

I really thought i had done my homework.

Your chances of getting a puppy with a good topline with both parents having a good one were very good. But unfortunately a past ancestor must have put their two cents in:mad:
Alot of changes can happen especially before 6 months.
I wouldnt blame the breeder, not every dog turns out like we hope they will. If he had a good top line when he left Im sure the breeder thought it would stay that way, especially if your boy was older when you got him.
Maybe theres a chance the back will straighten out. How old is he?

He will be 7 months on the first. We got him at around 5 months. And he a had a little growth spurt right after we got him. Got a little taller and gained a tiny bit of weight. Beside his ears being a tiny bit to big, (and the back of course) he is really standard on everything else, not too tall, weight is right, eyes not buggy, ect.... And he seems to be holding now on weight and everything now.

I really didn't think that the breeder had mislead me or anything. I guess I thought maybe I had overlooked something when I was there and was upset at that.

Is that him on your avator? He sure is cute!
Maybe you could post a pic of him stacked and someone can tell you what they think of his back.

Well, I will sure give that a try..... I have a new found respect for show trainers and dogs though.... the way they just stand there stacked so nice! I can *barely* get mine to stand still.

But I will do my best and get one up today.

ok, I managed to find a few "good" ones, or as good as it is going to get. (we are still working on learning commands, like "Stay".) Also, please please please, forgive his coat, he was neutered last week and hasn't had a proper bath or grooming in a week.

haha! I know what you mean. Im not a show breeder and I dont work on stacking to much, so my dogs whther they have roach back or not, look like they do becuase they hunch all up! My hubby sis generally at work when I try to take pics and its hard to get them to cooperate if you dont work with them!!!

Im very interested to see what the more experienced breeders think, but that does not look like a roach back to me.

I wanted to add, it looks like his front legs havent caught up to his back legs....maybe they will!!!!!
BUt as I said, Im not the best one on this, the second pic is a good one to look at, Im sure someone with that knowledge will come along and give a better opinion, better knowledge and experience to let you know what they think.

You're boy is not roach backed.....he's high in the rear and has a tendency to tuck his rear; many things contribute to this he could be a lil close in hind quarters.....or sometimes they stand that way when they are unsure of their environment. A lil girl left my home about a month ago, perfect topline, wonderful gait, had I not already had her father, I would have kept her. Her owner brought her back for me to groom and pointed out her topline to me. I watched her and she looked like she was losing her topline...I asked whether she was carried around alot, she informed me that yes her teenage daughter loved putting her in a blanket and carrying her around. I told her not to allow to much of that, as she was making the dog into a baby, dependent on them, etc. I told her that although we see them as our lil babies, in the end they are still dogs and must be allowed to be just that. She heeded my advice brought her back a couple of weeks later.....what a difference....that lil girl was prancing around here with her tail & head up like she owned the world.....topline perfect....

This may not be the reason for your lil boy tucking.....but, remember he still has a lot of growing to do.

Oh! and his ears aren't big either.

Mary

OH! I thought a roach back was when their backs weren't straight and curved in any way. Thank you for clarifying it for me! He was carried around a lot when he first came home, but, that was mainly due to the fact that he was terrified. So we would bring him to his food, his water, his paper. He had also never been on a leash before, so, when we would put him on one, he was carried outside. Actually, now that he isn't being carried as much, his tail is finally up. Although, he is on the shy side still. And he is still adjusting to his new home. So maybe as the weeks go on, that will help. TY!

Oh wait, I meant to ask, they can lose their topline? Or is that just an expression for a bad gait?

Watch him gait....does the topline level off......

You said he was terrified, well by carrying him around and doing for him, you have reinforeced the behavior.....making him dependent on you. How we handle them affects their structure. So, play with him.....love him, just because he's lil doesn't make him helpless...he's a terrier.

Well that sure is good to hear for you and Percy!:)

No, they can loose their topline, especially girls, when they go through their seasons....I go nuts when I'm watching a young girl that I'm showing in Season, what was once a perfect topline, goes off and on for a matter of weeks.

I've seen dogs that are too skinny have a slight hump and after weight has been put on....they level off.

It does level off a bit when he is walking, especially when running. Although, his little bottom "swishes" if that makes any sense.

Yea, I realized my mistake after he was home a week. My husband actually pointed it out. He said "Alyson, why are you treating the dog like a baby? He is a dog, let him be a dog. You didn't treat any of our "big dogs" like this when they came home." And I realized, he was right. So.....we have stopped the carrying around like a baby thing, and Percy is actually adjusting much much better.

Oh! Just thought of something, sorry for all the questions, thank you for all your imput. When I do need to pick him up, like to get in the car, of into the bath, up on a table to groom...ect, what is the proper way to pick them up and hold them? I was googling this and got two very very different answers.

The Swishy thing is a puppy thing...it may go away.

Don't stop loving him, just don't baby him.....it's the best way for him to gain some independence and attitude.

The way I pick the dogs up and hold them is from their rear end, go between the legs and put him on your arm. Your arm supports their back....once you have them there make sure that you are holding his front legs on the outsides by spreading your hand and placing your thumb and fingers to keep them in place. This is so that if you are walking through a crowd no one walking by can accidently push his legs out...Be sure your grip is firm but, not hurtful

Mardelin, you are awesome! Thank you so much for you help and imput.

And yup, I can honestly say, he is the most loved puppy in the county! Hands down (I won't say on all of YT cause there would be a riot :p )

we should all take mental notes (I know most of us do), of these pearl of wisdom! Thanks for sharing Mardelin.

Mardelin,

I just wanted to add another thank you. You are always so generous with your wisdom when it comes to these dogs. I appreciate all you have to offer. :)

Thanks

No thanks necessary.

I have been a new yorkie pet owner too. I made all the same mistakes everyone else has. Not until I began showing dogs did I learn that what I had done in the past was not in the best interest of these wondeful lil creatures. So what I share with you has been a culmination of years of experience I have gained from wonderful people in the yorkie show world.
Another wonderful source of information is Cesar Milan's Dog Whisperer Book. As he states that the people in the USA shower their dogs with so much affection and material items, but the one thing he noticed was the sadness in their eyes....we as a country tend to humanize our pets and forget they are first and foremost dogs. We have to give that back to them.

Ditto
 

Ditto, what Mary said...thanks!

I am also guilty.:eek:

I realised it during the fight for ear meds--I was treating him like a baby and cooing at him while he spazzed.

3 days into it I realised--(after watching CM's dog Whisperer) that I had never done this with my big dogs. Milo is my first lil one.

Next morning my approach was all business and I informed him that I meant biz by using my "big girl voice".

After that--- whenever I need him to pay attention all I have to say is, "big girl voice", in my bg voice and he knows there'll be no messing around.

Duh---still works for my 18 yr old skin kid too!:p

Really great info! I appreciate it very much too :)

Really goes to show how a dog may have all the great qualities but the way you handle and raise him or her can make a great difference. YOu brought up things I never even took into consideration. Light bulb moment:eek:
THank you so much for sharing such available information unselfishly. Can make us all better yorkie owners for sure. Only takes a nudge sometimes to put someone in the right direction. .......SOmetimes a big shove, but yeah as long as you get there.:D

:thumbup:

Roach Back
 

Does any one know if there is something called puppy roach? as in puppy roach back I am assuming. I purchased a puppy from a breeder and had her shipped to me 1 wk ago. I noticed that she has like a hump in the middle of her back, although she is underweight and is boney. I have had pups at this weight before, but they were much younger than she, more like 8wks and their backs were level, she is 15wks and is 1 1/2lbs. I contacted her breeder and her response was, she didnt think about mentioning it to me because often they outgrow it. is this true?? can they outgrow it?? Isnt roachback genetic? how can a pup outgrow a genetic defect?? Here are some pics of when she was younger... I will try to wet her down and take a more current stacked pic of her and post it later... She is a little older and has tons of hair in the first pic... She is like a fluff ball it disguises her shape. The second pic is more true.
:confused:

Here is a thread where a member's dog is roached back. Having a roached back does not take away from health or wellness of a dog. Just that their topline is not level.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...16&postcount=5

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...84&postcount=6

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...67&postcount=1

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...62&postcount=1

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...39&postcount=4

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=21

You are right, it does not make these dogs unhealty. However, some dogs that are diagnosed by some as roached back are truely such. It can be they are weak and too close in the rear, low in the shoulders and at times caused by their posture. In the ring you can stack it out, however the true telling is if in gait they level off.

IT is not unusual for a puppy to 'fall apart' at this age. It very well could come back to a straight topline at a year of age or thereabouts, especially if it was straight before. If it never was then unlikely it would become straight.
If he is just for pet anyway, I wouldn't sweat it, there are a lot worse things that can go wrong. This would not affect his health anyway.
If it stays this way, I would not consider him for breeding purposes.