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koolbreeze 03-20-2007 02:29 PM
breeding questions
 
can you breed without a pedigree?

does anyone breed males being more than 5 lbs?

what is the average weight of males?

and how come some won't breed yorkies with floppy ears?

topknot 03-20-2007 02:36 PM
Quote:
can you breed without a pedigree?

does anyone breed males being more than 5 lbs?

what is the average weight of males?

and how come some won't breed yorkies with floppy ears?
1. Yes, you can breed without a pedigree, but why would you. You should be as informed as possible as to the quality of pups you might produced. You are therefore reponsible for how they turn out.

2. Yes, people do breed males larger than 5 pounds. Many of your show champions are around 6 pounds. But they should not go over 7 pounds! It is our standard that help to guide us.

3. Floppy ears are genetic fault. TEars may go up and down during (baby) teething, but should go up and stay up after that!
T.

Susan123 03-20-2007 03:42 PM
Whether ears are genetic or not is pretty much opinion. I have a girl who came to me ears down, (unshaven untrained ears probably)from a pet home. She had her first litter and all of their ears stood fine. If you have a breeder with really thick big ears, that could be another story.

topknot 03-20-2007 04:17 PM
Sorry - I should have mentioned that ears should be shaved as they develop. Hair on the ears can be a reason for them being down. I just expect everyone knows to shave the ears - so do not think about mentioning it.
T.

koolbreeze 03-20-2007 04:38 PM
so what happens if you don't get a pedigree from the breeder? i mean what does that mean? that there could be problems with the puppy or what? how do you get a pedigree if the breeder doesn't give you one?

topknot 03-20-2007 06:27 PM
You do not necessarily have to get a pedigree from the breeder. If the puppy is registerd - order one from the registry company it is registered with. Simple!
T.

BamaFan121s 03-20-2007 06:35 PM
I'm not really sure what you're asking, so I'll just ask this...what do you know about the background of the two dogs in question?

koolbreeze 03-20-2007 06:43 PM
my baby girl didn't come with a pedigree. i got her before i knew anything about it and didn't ask for one. shes reg. with AKC.

fannie 03-20-2007 06:51 PM
Ok, well you have to understand what a pedigree is. It's different than her registration. A pedigree is like a family tree. And no, you don't have to have that to breed her.

Where are you located? I think you could probably benefit from a good mentor if you are wanting to start a breeding program. There's lots of research involved first.

BamaFan121s 03-20-2007 06:57 PM
No, I think you misunderstood my question....hmmm...it's hard to put into words...I realize you say she is registered. What are her characteristics? Genetic background in previous generations? How closely does she compare to the 'ideal' standard set forth by the AKC?

koolbreeze 03-20-2007 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 1016022)
No, I think you misunderstood my question....hmmm...it's hard to put into words...I realize you say she is registered. What are her characteristics? Genetic background in previous generations? How closely does she compare to the 'ideal' standard set forth by the AKC?
yeah i know what it is. but i just wanted to know what was in her back ground. that whole standard has me all messed up. i have a book on Yorkies thats pretty old but i suppose the standard hasn't changed. i think shes perfect of course but i don't know if shes standard, i think she is but i really don't know what i am looking for. shes still really young. but i figure i would ask now so i can know if its worth going forth with the idea. or should i look for something more standard.

koolbreeze 03-20-2007 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fannie (Post 1016008)
Ok, well you have to understand what a pedigree is. It's different than her registration. A pedigree is like a family tree. And no, you don't have to have that to breed her.

Where are you located? I think you could probably benefit from a good mentor if you are wanting to start a breeding program. There's lots of research involved first.
i'm in St. Peters, MO. i don't know of any breeders like the ones on YT in my area. everyone that i have talked to seem to be geared towards breeding "teacups" and not standard.

fannie 03-20-2007 07:31 PM
Well unfortunately, I would not go to any of them for help or information. YT is a fantastic source of info. Ask lots of questions and make sure you are breeding with the right intentions and ethics.

As for the pedigree.... go to www.akc.org You can order one for her from there. It will tell her the past 3 generations.

koolbreeze 03-20-2007 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fannie (Post 1016118)
Well unfortunately, I would not go to any of them for help or information. YT is a fantastic source of info. Ask lots of questions and make sure you are breeding with the right intentions and ethics.

As for the pedigree.... go to www.akc.org You can order one for her from there. It will tell her the past 3 generations.
you are right. this is one of my reasons for wanting to do so, so that i can be a reputable breeder in this area and people can get well breed yorkie. and i want to be standard. its ridiculous the descriptions i've heard and the prices for the tinys and how most made sure they mentioned that they were tiny. most were at least 2 hours from me. many weren't reg. AKC that were around here. so i just thought i'd ask. thanks for the answers . i appreciate them!

Ladyhawk 03-21-2007 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan123 (Post 1015609)
Whether ears are genetic or not is pretty much opinion. I have a girl who came to me ears down, (unshaven untrained ears probably)from a pet home. She had her first litter and all of their ears stood fine. If you have a breeder with really thick big ears, that could be another story.
Drop ears are the result of a recessive gene. If the sire of the pups are heterozygous for this feature than the littler has a 50 -50 chance of containing a drop eared puppy. If the sire is homozygous for erect ears ( doesn't carry the recessive gene) than the pups would all have erect ears but would carry the recessive gene for the next generation. If ears have been shaved and taped but have never come up than it's probably caused by the recessive gene.

Susan123 03-21-2007 03:40 AM
Sounds like you're convinced. I'll not debate, but since you quoted me.....


Drop ears are the result of a recessive gene. (A quote from LadyHawk)


If you're going to present statements as facts, please quotes your studies, sources and credentials behind that author (I don't believe it just because they have a web page)

Won't get into a debate. That's why I said with ears you'll find it's a matter of opinions. Thanks for coming along and proving me correct. Some people believe it's genetics, some circumstantial. Me I believe alot of times it is genetics, alot of times it is circumstances.

Mardelin 03-21-2007 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolbreeze (Post 1015452)
can you breed without a pedigree?

does anyone breed males being more than 5 lbs?

what is the average weight of males?

and how come some won't breed yorkies with floppy ears?
Not sure where in MO you live. However, there are 2 Breed Clubs there. The Yorkie Club of Greater Kansas City and one newly formed. Visit the YTCA.org page. By contacting one of these clubs you may find someone that will help mentor you. On the YTCA website, you will find the standard. Being confused about the standard is normal. It is open to interpretation......

Sugar's Mom 03-21-2007 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1016436)
Drop ears are the result of a recessive gene. If the sire of the pups are heterozygous for this feature than the littler has a 50 -50 chance of containing a drop eared puppy. If the sire is homozygous for erect ears ( doesn't carry the recessive gene) than the pups would all have erect ears but would carry the recessive gene for the next generation. If ears have been shaved and taped but have never come up than it's probably caused by the recessive gene.
Tami, would you site your source for this info, please? not trying to be smart just wanting to learn because there are varying opinions on if it is a genetic fault or not. You can pm me the info if you'd like. Thanks

Mardelin 03-21-2007 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 1016565)
Tami, would you site your source for this info, please? not trying to be smart just wanting to learn because there are varying opinions on if it is a genetic fault or not. You can pm me the info if you'd like. Thanks
Dee,

check The Breeding For Better Dogs" website Dr Carmen Battaglia......

Keep in mind what Tami is stating here does not mean that all dogs with droopy ears have a genetic fault.

As a breeder you know that some of the problems are due to several other factors. So, quit stressing over that lil guy, they are going to come up with your coaxing..

Sugar's Mom 03-21-2007 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 1016574)
Dee,

check The Breeding For Better Dogs" website Dr Carmen Battaglia......

Keep in mind what Tami is stating here does not mean that all dogs with droopy ears have a genetic fault.

As a breeder you know that some of the problems are due to several other factors. So, quit stressing over that lil guy, they are going to come up with your coaxing..
thank you so much, mary. it's just that he has such a great pedigree and is exactly what I searched for over the past year. i have NEVER had to deal with ears like this before. Well, I had to tape my little girl from kandy's litter up. the one I kept back to bred, but they came right on up and are much larger than his. he loves his cottage cheese I am feeding him. i know he is still cutting teeth, too. On my furniture, on my pretties, on me, on anything he can get that little mouth on. LOL he is going back into the tape this weekend for a few more days. It has been suggested to me that I am 'fooling" with them too much so i left him out of the tape this week to ssee what he does.

Ladyhawk 03-21-2007 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan123 (Post 1016490)
Sounds like you're convinced. I'll not debate, but since you quoted me.....


Drop ears are the result of a recessive gene. (A quote from LadyHawk)


If you're going to present statements as facts, please quotes your studies, sources and credentials behind that author (I don't believe it just because they have a web page)

Won't get into a debate. That's why I said with ears you'll find it's a matter of opinions. Thanks for coming along and proving me correct. Some people believe it's genetics, some circumstantial. Me I believe alot of times it is genetics, alot of times it is circumstances.
My sources come from Ann Seranne a very respected breeder and exhibitor or Yorkies and my college genetics book. You don't have to believe anything, you're not the one who asked. If there is not a physical cause there's a genetic cause and these facts will help you to eliminate drop ears from your breeding program. You don't want to learn, don't listen.

Dee, His ears will probably be fine when he finishes teething. If not now you know how work with it if it is genetic. The joy of breeding your own show dog is a great resource, I believe Mary recommended it to me.

Lorraine 03-21-2007 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 1015706)
Sorry - I should have mentioned that ears should be shaved as they develop. Hair on the ears can be a reason for them being down. I just expect everyone knows to shave the ears - so do not think about mentioning it.
T.
You are very right there and once the cartilage in the ears are broken due to too heavy hair for too long, they won't go up. But that is considered an environmental cause, ie not shaving them and is not a genetic cause. If handled properly they would have gone up. A genetic cause they will not go up no matter how much you tape and shave.

katie'smom 03-29-2007 05:24 AM
This is very interesting learning more about the ears. I just had a litter with three pups and one of the pups ears went up pretty early while the other two took longer. At 10 weeks one of them is still drooping and not standing well but her ears are the smallest of the three. Go figure? I was wondering if it was possible that the ear might have been damaged by some rough playing between the pups? I guess time will tell.


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