Breeding back after eclampsia
 

Roxi had a litter this September and experienced eclampsia. Has anybody who has had a dog with eclampsia had problems breeding back that dog. Not that we are even thinking of the next litter yet, but I want to know everything I can before it comes time to think about whether or not to breed her back. And yes I am planning on giving her a heat cycle off (I know that there are people out there worrying that I'm going t breed her her next heat, I'm not)

I don't breed but, if it were me....I probably would be afraid to breed again....But, that's just me...there are breeders on here that may have experienced this...I'm sure they will give you some advise.

Good Luck!

It doesnt necessarily mean she will have eclampsia her next litter (although it is a greater possiblity than not) Hattie did both litters despite giving calcium post whelping everyday and feeding a natural calcium rich diet....Hatties mother had eclampsia too but only once in 4 litters.

I, personally, wouldn't breed again and risk losing her. I think you have a much higher chance of her having eclampsia again. Many feel that there is a genetic predisposition for the condition. I only breed healthy females who do not have any complications. If one has any complications I heed the warning and don't breed her again.

I know of a few breeders that have bred again and eclampsia has not reoccured...

Please think about the definition of eclampsia before you breed her again "a life-threatening condition" - if it is genetic (and it is listed in the genetic disorders because it occurs in higher numbers in some breeds, not listed under Yorkies at this point, but I suspect it will be if people continue to breed them) you are not only risking her life, but passing it on to future generations. If you were deciding to breed a dog again that produced luxating patellas or a number of other problems everyone would be against it and that is not even life threatening.

Now if you gave calcium supplements while she was pregnant and could have artificially induced it that way then I might feel differently.

Lacy's mom-
YOU SAID IT before I could! :thumbup:

Yes Lacy's Mom very well stated! "A LIFE THREATENING CONDITION"! Why would anyone want to take the risk of the loss of your dam just to breed her again for a litter of puppies?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...ight=eclampsia

12-09-2005, 08:43 AM #36
YorkieRose
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had it twice in my girls..Pinkie 1 and then Peach. Both had litters after and did not get it again...but I supplimented the pups with extra feedings. Peaches temp was 107 when she had it..the vet put her in cold water when we got there...the look they get on their faces is beyond panic..the month is pulled back and they are panting for air..a very tight grimace. They can not stand, they fall over..then the vet gives an injection of calcuim and suddenly it is like it never happened.

Of all the things that can go wrong in breeding dogs..esclampsia is the worst experience for the breeder IMO and the simplest to correct for the dog. By the time they get home from the vet they are back to normal and the breeder needs medical care. If I had a bad heart I could not do this...
__________________
Pat, Kate and Emee
Prim

That is fine that you and a few others will breed a female again after an episode of esclampsia, but I am one that absolutely would NOT! I think going through it once would be more than enough for one female to have to endure.

as in everything there is always two side and two ways of thinking, each bitch is different in how she recovers and if it re-occurs!

Pat was just telling us her experience with it. Maybe if someone else would have quoted her, responses would have been a little nicer. It is up to the breeder to look at it from all angles, discuss with specialists, seasoned breeders and essentially make the decision on their own.

Thanks for all your in put guys. I know there are some things that I have done and didn't do that would have helped with her maybe not getting it. When she was first pregnant I did give her cottage cheese, which some say could lead to eclampsia. This was our first litter and as soon as some one advised me not to feed it to her I stopped. Also I didn't suppliment her after welping with calcium, which now I know better and will do so next time we have a litter.

I started this to learn other (more experienced) people's experiences, so guys please don't fight about it, just let me know what has happened in your cases, and don't critisize each other.:p

Thanks so far for all your help. We wouldn't have been able to have this litter if it wasn't for you guys.

You are right...what works for one individual may not work for another. Some dogs can be bred again (as in Pat's two girls) and do just fine. But, in someone else's dog, it may not work out as well. I have spoken to Pat and with my vets about this and they said it is possible, you just need to proceed with extremem caution (since you KNOW the risks) and change the diet up some.

Best of luck to you and yours. Keep us updated!

Nothing I said was un-called for.

I am just seeing people advising other's that its ok to continue breeding bitches prone to eclampsia. My post had nothing to do with YorkieRose. Just so happened she was the one who was pulled out of past threads and quoted.

You ALL are right...it is a personal decision in the end. But I have to ask the same question someone else here asked...is it worth it to continue repeating a known life threatening problem with a bitch just for a litter of puppies? If so, what is the real under-lying reason there for the breeding?

I am quoting below from one of Pat Hasting's books:

"Your dog is your dog. Don't let anyone-be it your breeder,your vet, your handler, your best friend or me-talk you into doing anything with or for your dog that you're uncomfortable doing."
"We expect our vets to be dog people, but are medical professionals, educated to treat diseases. There is almost no mention in any veterinary class that I know of about whelping puppies. If your vet is not a dog breeder, he or she may never have seen a litter of puppies born"
"The problem is getting a vet to admit that his or her knowledge of dogs may be limited to pathology, diagnosis, and treatment. The challenge is to find a vet who is open to your knowledge and concerns as a dog person"


Now, as a "dog person" I have to always put my dog first. Possibility of having puppies second. I for one have learned this the hard way...not due to eclampsia issues; I'll just say that I took the advice of someone against my better judgement on a paticular subject and I live to regret it to this day.

Thanks.

Here's a good link about eclampsia for others that may in the future pull up this thread. I think cottage cheese is fine to supplement with before whelping and after because it is in the desired ratio of phoshorous to calcium of 1.2:1 with the necessary Vitamin D. I usually don't start giving it until about 6 weeks pregnant and then only probably 3 or 4 times a week. It also mentions the danger of giving liver because of the very high calcium/phosphorous imbalance which could lead to inducing eclampsia. Liver is also dangerous in large quantities because of the high Vitamin A content which can lead to cleft palates. It also provides the recommended Tums supplement after whelping. I have never actually done this and have never had eclampsia. I really do feel it is a genetic condition.

http://lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/eclampsia.htm

Just checked cottage cheese phos. to calcium ratio - its more like 2.2 -phos. to 1 calcium. I think it's more dangerous to have the calcium higher than the phos. though, but will check into this.

out of 4 litters "Lit'l Bit" (Hatties mom) had eclampsia once which happened to be her last litter (of 5) my vet assured me it was not genetic and was because of the size of her litter! Hattie had it twice (two litters of 4) again my vet assured me it was not genetic, it is a known fact large litters can bring on eclampsia..... Mercedes (Hatties offspring) has NOT had it (litter of 3)!

So draw your own conclusions and do what bests fits in your breeding program without judging mine!

Plain and simply....every bitch is different!

Really? :confused: They all seem the same to me!;)

Honestly...you are risking the life of any bitch you breed, eclampsia prone or not, there are certain dangers. I think someone (Robbie?) mentioned that in the end it's a personal decision that is up to the individal breeder. I, like many, have never seen it first hand and hopefully never will, so I can't tell you what I would do or what you should do. I would just advise that you talk with several breeders, your vet, your gut, examine both sides and hope you make the right choice. In the end, that is all any of us can hope for.:) Good luck!

You are right it is everyones own personal choice. But I have to ask myself if you personally had problems with a pregnancy and your physician stated it would be "risking" your life to be pregnant again "Would you do it anyway?" Personally I would not risk my life again, so why would it be any different for a dog?

Just wanted to chime in light of the new moms death. If the dog almost dies, that's warning enough for me not to breed her again. For most of us hobby breeders, they are our pets first. It just wouldn't be worth the risk for me, not to sell more puppies.