As for refining..what are you refining if you breed the 2 standards? Neither IMO[/QUOTE]

This was not aimed at Julie..Stacy you said to refine the gene right?

I am going to make one more attempt and I am done with this whole conversation.

The Biewers started with two founding parents that were b/g Yorkshire Terriers nothing else. Recessive pie bald carriers. Mr. Biewer continued to mutate this gene, to develop the breed, so the offspring carry the same coloring, to throw the Biewer standard.

Now there are several lines in this breed. How did this happen??? It is very clear. If they were not breed back with their heritage (yorkshire terriers) otherwise we would only have ONE line and really sick dogs from inbreeding.

Since the Biewers were established from the Yorkshire Terrier line how can this now become a mix???? I understand for them to stand on their own as a breed of their own they shouldn't be breed back to b/g yorkie. The goal to improve the breed since it is such a new breed, breeders in Germany are still breeding back with the b/g. Some of these breeders belong to the very same club of the IBC. So, unless they are banned or in the process of being banned I feel that this is still exceptable, with the IBC.

I would love to see this Biewers become a variation or type of Yorkshire. Not to compete against the Yorshire Terrier as it does go against the breed standard the was set by the YTCA and that AKC follows them as the parent club for the breed... :thumbup: There are many many other variations of other breeds in AKC. This is will take many years for this to happen and all the right steps would have to be taken first. When the time comes I would love to see the YTCA join our force & help us get them introduced properly to ensure that they enter the ring as a breed of their own as the silkies are.

I have a question Sue. When you show Homer (who is adorable by the way ) how does the International entity judge him? Based on what standard or rules? I visited their website and I don't see anything about Biewers..I don't remember anyway..

Homer entered the ring under his category a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier. He was judged against his standard the was set for this breed. The judges at these shows are AKC and UCI judges.

I am hoping that our trip to Germany this year will fill in the blanks for us. Until then I am no long going to go tit for tat here. I have provided many links on this whole subject for everyone to reasearch. Come to our own conclusions. Good Luck to everyone. :thumbup: :D

Sue I'm sorry I just don't understand how this can make your final to breed Yorkies to Biewers?

"The goal to improve the breed since it is such a new breed, breeders in Germany are still breeding back with the b/g. Some of these breeders belong to the very same club of the IBC. So, unless they are banned or in the process of being banned I feel that this is still exceptable, with the IBC."

There is so much more to consider than just that..
The breeders that are breeding Yorkies and are members of the IBC are accepted because the log and proof traces back to down the path of history..right? All off of them are some how all tied back to Mr Biewer. That's what The UKC looks for and that's what the club stands for..at least how I understand them...everything points in the directon for Biewers to be separete from Yorkies. When inquired with reputable breeders in Germany (lets not forget some are irreputable that people in Germany that sell 'Biewers' or so they call them that) the first question I was asked was you have to look at PEDIGREE....so I had each of the 2 lines I have looked over closely by both breeders I have bought from. My line is traceable back to the Friedheck lines. I cannont imagine why on earth this man would take the time to make the markings specific if he just wanted 'color'?....Again, my Girls go back 4 generations of True Biewer and my male 3..it's all pure and they have titles from Biewer shows too. Why on earth would someone work on that for years and then turn around and do the opposite..as to they've been doing for years?

I will take the lead of the IBC in Germany until they tell me otherwise. At that time I'll reassess what my plans I can tell you they are NOT to incorporate Yorkies..I would NEVER have gotten into Biewers if that's how I understood it to be or if I read it in the standard or History. I assume that the breeders that are members of the IBC are breeding Yorkies to Biewers as accepted ONLY and I say ONLY by the IBC, the lines still need perfection for one thing or another so they know how to handle and trace those breedings carefully and only on rare occasions. That's why they would NOT be banned..the objective to breed to the standard is still working in progress but it has to be traced.

Sue's Quote: "He was judged against his standard the was set for this breed. The judges at these shows are AKC and UCI judges."


Are they members of the IBC? How can AKC judge a breed the AKC doesn't recognize?...Who is UCI?..Not looking for answer just thinking aloud.

OK..this is NOT my objective..I want NO relation!!

"I would love to see this Biewers become a variation or type of Yorkshire. Not to compete against the Yorshire Terrier as it does go against the breed standard the was set by the YTCA and that AKC follows them as the parent club for the breed... There are many many other variations of other breeds in AKC. This is will take many years for this to happen and all the right steps would have to be taken first. When the time comes I would love to see the YTCA join our force & help us get them introduced properly to ensure that they enter the ring as a breed of their own as the silkies are."

Following this process will not only dilute the Biewer but the Yorkie as well. So not only would I ruin one breed I'd be ruining both..No way!!!..

Having been in Yorkies for over 30 years I have never gotten a Biewer Yorkie nor know of any other show exhibitor that has. We don't know what happened way back before Biewer got his 1st Biewer dog himself and. Just as we won't promote the chocolate, nor would we the Biewer.

The Biewer is not going to become a variation in type, so it only stands to reason to get them a name that someday AKC can accept and they won't accept Yorkshire on the Biewer name. Quite frankly, the Silky has more in common then the Biewer. This is a cute dog, why not go for the breed as a breed. If it's a Yorkie, then it would never be called a Biewer, it would be called what it is which is a tri-color.

I give credit to those trying to start a new breed and have the breed stand on it's own merit. If at any time I can offer any advice please feel free to ask.

One thing that is appearing in the Biewers is Liver Shunt. Seeing as I have a dog that had Liver Shunt I have been involved in lists that educate and help liver shunt dogs and a Biewer here in the US developed LiverShunt, and it was put on the internet, although the owner was quite put out about it being known. They are just as prone to the health problems as our standard yorkies are, especially as they originally came from the breeding of yorkies. You can't eliminate health problems by creating a new breed from one that has these problems.

Sue, just because the Biewer is a descendent of the yorkie does not make it one. The yorkie was not born one day. It took years of breeding down from other breeds to make the yorkie the breed we know today. It appears your Biewers are from the German lines. I went to your site and your dogs are adorable. However, there are breeders who are capitalizing on the Biewer name, when in actuality they are only breeding cross breeds. Keeping records with DNA will allow the Biewer to become a breed of its own. Yes, it is not going to happen overnight. But all new breeds accepted by AKC have not just happened by accident, but by years of breeding true. As Irene stated, breeding Biewers to Yorkies will only dilute the gene pool.
I do hope that the dedicated Biewer breeders will continue on the quest to form their own breed of the Biewer Terrier, but I do not see it becoming a variation of the Yorkshire Terrier.
Julie

All my Biewers and their parents are tested. I plan on going into this very cautiously. I think the problem is too many people buy a bunch and breed them all together..that is not going to help anything...even if you are breeding True Biewer to True Biewer..I consider this all a test..I have NO idea what I'm gonna produce with my first litter. I can tell you that ALL the pups will be altered and tested for liver problems before leaving my home. I will preach in hopes that others see the importance of


I have hope that I can evolve even closer to perfection to minimize any health issues..just as I do with my Yorkies..who also have LS.

I am prepared to focus on a small gene pool to see what I produce. If the litters are healthy and within the standard I will go for the next litter..if I get the opposite of what I strive...I will NOT repeat that breeding! Now, my emphasis is on health first..To me that's hard to deal with than markings and colors.

Trudy, thanks for your input..was that you doing a LS study? Or was that someone else? I'd be interested in tracking both my Yorkies and my Biewers.

Yikes..I reread this..sounds kinda harsh..sorry..Not intended :(

There is definitely some tension on this thread, but I wanted to ask that people not stop sharing their input. While I know that this is definitely an issue in which many people feel very passionately about, seeing the different standpoints and the reasoning / explanations behind them is an awesome learning tool for those of us who are still learning and forming opinions. Of course I am not asking that a heated debate gets going, just that people continue to post their opinions and others respectfully respond with theirs. The information that has been shrared in this thread is very educational and thought provoking......thank you to all who have contributed! :thumbup:

Darinda has a lot of the pedigrees that were collected from dogs that had Liver Shunt. I can give you her email if you would like to have her talk to you. Email me privately at trudie@direcway.com and I will give you her email address.

I want to be clear that I do not want to be harsh or cause tension..I agree with Jen that sharing our views is important it's a passion..We both want do what the right thing for the Biewer :thumbup: ..but have different ideas as to what is 'Right'. Anyone else that has their own ideas speak up!! I am open minded, but set in my ways ;) Oh..did I mention anal :p

Will do! Thanks!!

I am posting up some pictures of my Biewer, that may help you with the coats of some Biewers.. I tried to get a close up of her coat for you. Yes, both breeds can bring the wrong texture of coat we are no exception to that rule. Hopefully with careful breeding we can develop the right coat for this breed. And as we both know it will take responsible breeders to achieve this goal and except nothing less.

I also took the liberty to include a picture of one of my offspring. As I hope the picture shows they are the same as a yorkie puppy in appearance, just different coloring. I didn't brush him so you could see his puppy coat.

:wavey: To All: I haven't come to post these pictures to reopen a debate back on what the beliefs on the Biewer breed. I am only sharing pictures....to help a member with a legitimate concern.

I personally feel that it has gotten way out of hand and that is why I have stopped posting in regarding the Biewers.... :p Please know that I am still very passionate about the breed and that I still have my convictions and continue to research the breed. Many of you that have wondered where I am ~~ I am still here... Just taking a time out...