Yorkie "Lines"?
 

I'm in the process of searching for my next pup & have 3 breeders on my "short list". I'm looking for a PET. I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the various Yorkie "lines". I tried Google, but I get a very broad search result & I'm not sure exactly how to tie everything together.

Pardon my ignorance, as I am an owner of 2 rescue pups. I have decided to work with a breeder this time & I just want to make sure that I'm educated as I can be about the pup I will be purchasing. I also want to be able to ask my breeder the right questions.

Are some lines better than others?
Do certain lines have a reputation for certain characteristics?
What does "based on such-and-such a line" exactly mean?
What does "descended from Clarkwyn breeding" mean?

Some lines that have popped up in my breeder search include: Wildweir, Clarkwyn & Edgewood.

Sort of like we all have a family history, dogs have certain "lines". It's basically the makeup of their ancestors and certain breeders tend to breed for certain things based on their personal preferences. Certain lines might cary a certain health defect but it's probably hidden somewhere in any of the lines. I'm afraid I'm not much help and it really depends on your personal preferences and since you are really looking for a pet anyway, I'm not sure how important a certain look is to you. I would say, visit the home and make your decision based on the breeder themselves and the individual dogs. I personally would choose a dog who comes from parents with a great temperament and I would not want my a pet I chose to come from a kennel situation. Not to say that there aren't good breeders out there who have kennels it's just my personal preference at this time.... good luck in your search!

What an exciting time for you! Here is a thread that talks about the "great breeders" http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-breeders.html

Now that thread is really just mentioning all the "lines"/breeders who have made a reputation for themselves as valuable contributors to the Yorkie Breed.

Phrases such as "based on" or "descended from", can be just marketing terms and or ploys for potential buyers who know something about Yorkie lines to be reeled in for a sale. And it can be innocent as well. A way of communicating where their breeding stock is sourced.

There are a number of good articles in here on how to find a reputable breeder. They are found in our Library which is the second "blue" colored forum down when you go to the main menu.

I have a passion for health. And so, I will say to you, ask the breeders about what "specific" health tests they have done on their breeding pair, and what health concerns are in the lineage. Then I would check them out to see if they have posted the health tests on reputable health data sites; Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, and CHIC.
Next of course or equal to is the temperament of the pair. Ideally you get to see both sire and dam. And then the temperament of the pups. Hopefully your breeder formally temperament tests the pups.

If you are going to pay premium dollars for a purebred then, you as the consumer should demand the very best health and structure and temperament of any pup you buy. The fact that you want a beloved PET, does not mean you should expect inferior health or quality.

It is very demanding to show a dog and it should be. Small flaws that do NOT affect the health or structure of a pup might make them in-eligible for the show ring. For example, eyes too light, or mismatched. Ears too large small and wrongly set on head. Coat likely to be either too light, too coarse, too soft, or a combination coat. Top line a "bit" and I stress a bit off. Likely to grow and weigh too large for the breed. Temperament off, too shy, too timid. And that one is a bit of a conundrum. All else being excellent you just might consider breeding this bitch or stud to an exuberant kind of over the top Yorkie. It would not guarantee the whole litter being of equal temperament - but...... some will and some may go to one end of the scale or the other.

And yes I am a show breeder; not of Yorkies though. But I believe that the public should demand "excellence" of their breeders.

Thank you so much for the information. The health of my pups is extremely important to me. I love my 2 Yorkie rescues dearly, and I support reputable rescue organizations. However, because my pups are such an important part of my life, I have chosen to work with a breeder this time. I suppose I'm worried of the health risks involved with a rescue this time & I want to be sure that my next baby is as healthy as possible for 15 (or more!) years. I'm not looking for a show dog. I am looking for exactly what you mentioned - a dog with show potential that for some aesthetic reason, was not able to make it to the ring.

I did not realize that there was such a thing as a formal "temperament test". Would you mind briefly explaining how this test works?

Thank you again for your help. I will check out the websites you mentioned. Thank you for that. That will be very helpful! Happy New Year!

Thanks for your reply! So in addition to family history, certain lines have different traits and looks?

Do all show dogs come from a kennel environment? I have not yet visited the kennels of the breeders I am considering.

Hi, Strictly speaking, few of today's breeders are strict line breeders. The breeders you mention adhered to the principles of line breeding. When a breeder opts for line breeding, they may be able to more effectively breed for specific genetic qualities or physical appearances. This refers to genotype and phenotype. Line breeders personally know the genetic pros and cons of many generations of the dogs in their breeding program. You may wish to google line breeding versus out-cross breeding and phenotype/genotype for a more in depth explanation. To answer your specific questions -Not all show dogs live in kennel situations. And yes, certain lines have distinctive "looks" and traits. Some of the more experienced show breeders here can recognize a particular dogs appearance as being likely from a particular breeder. I hope you are successful in your search for a great addition to your pack!

There is an American Temperament Test Society - but the formal TT designation usually here in Canada can not be earned prior to 15mths old.

But here I am talking about Puppy TT's. There is a 10 or a 12 step process dependent on the breeder/tester that they use.

The puppy is evaluated by a stranger at as close to 8wks old as you can manage.

Startle response is evaluated
Curiousity is evaluated
Dominance/Submission
Play/Toy/Work drive
Aloofness/Socialness
Problem Solving.
Structure

For the pet buyer, it is best to try if you can to see how the pup interacts with the full litter and the dam.

I do have a thread on here about Puppy Evaluation for the Pet Owner. I was told it was too detailed....;)

My most best and truly held advice is to Research your Breeder First! That means you don't go over their gorgeous cute pups, until you have investigated the breeder and talked with him or her.

[QUOTE=gemy;4091881]There is an American Temperament Test Society - but the formal TT designation usually here in Canada can not be earned prior to 15mths old.

But here I am talking about Puppy TT's. There is a 10 or a 12 step process dependent on the breeder/tester that they use.

The puppy is evaluated by a stranger at as close to 8wks old as you can manage.

Startle response is evaluated
Curiousity is evaluated
Dominance/Submission
Play/Toy/Work drive
Aloofness/Socialness
Problem Solving.
Structure

For the pet buyer, it is best to try if you can to see how the pup interacts with the full litter and the dam.

I do have a thread on here about Puppy Evaluation for the Pet Owner. I was told it was too detailed....;)

My most best and truly held advice is to Research your Breeder First! That means you don't go over their gorgeous cute pups, until you have investigated the breeder and talked with him or her.[/QUOTE

Gemy-i love all your info.... Can you give examples of how people should " investigate" any breeder they are looking to buy from. IE Are there specific sites they can look to see if there are complaints on them

Memoirs of Yorkies Past: Beginning Breeders of Yorkshire Terriers.

I see you already have gotten expert advice, here's a link explaining Clarkwyn breeding (its just a so called original line) I know nothing of the breeder who's site the information is shared on not endorsing them.

Short answer is if your name is Smith, you have your line of yorkies you created after years of carefilly matched and championed breedings you'd probably name it 'or have itto called Smith line yorkies...or if you named york kennel Super Candy Awesome Fun Time (lol) it would be Super Awesome Candy Fun Time Yorkie Line...this naming is based on AKC and breed club line, kennel dog registrations ...maybe look up a sample 12 geberation pedigree on the net or someone can post one to show you.

My dog's name is Elvis...his AKC name is Castonague Shelbornes's Life of the Part Boy.

Memoirs of Yorkies Past: Beginning Breeders of Yorkshire Terriers.

I see you already have gotten expert advice, here's a link explaining Clarkwyn breeding (its just a so called original line) I know nothing of the breeder who's site the information is shared on not endorsing them.

Short answer is if your name is Smith, you have your line of yorkies you created after years of carefilly matched and championed breedings you'd probably name it 'or have itto called Smith line yorkies...or if you named york kennel Super Candy Awesome Fun Time (lol) it would be Super Awesome Candy Fun Time Yorkie Line...this naming is based on AKC and breed club line, kennel dog registrations ...maybe look up a sample 12 geberation pedigree on the net or someone can post one to show you.

My dog's name is Elvis...his AKC name is Castonague Shelbornes's Life of the Part Boy.

You could look on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America web site to find breeders in your area you could talk with. My experience has been that most of the good breeders are very willing to talk/educate others.

You can find breeders in the Akc reffereal near your area or a Dog Show. Then if you have luck finding a breeder they can show you a mating paper before the pups are born.
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Then if you want you can search - World Pedigree DataBase Yorkshire Terrier, Yorkshire terrier Pedigree DataBase.

And see if theres any infor there. Or just search the web the show name. But a breeder usuallly will sell you pet quality and a good breeder won't gouge you. And you most likely will get a good health guarrentte. But it's up to the buy to do all the esearch. Not all ppl are honest. JME

You can find breeders in the Akc reffereal near your area or a Dog Show. Then if you have luck finding a breeder they can show you a mating paper before the pups are born.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f9...efpedigree.png
Then if you want you can search - World Pedigree DataBase Yorkshire Terrier, Yorkshire terrier Pedigree DataBase.

And see if theres any infor there. Or just search the web the show name. But a breeder usuallly will sell you pet quality and a good breeder won't gouge you. And you most likely will get a good health guarrentte. But it's up to the buy to do all the esearch. Not all ppl are honest. JME

Thank you so much for the information. The temperament test is so interesting to me. I'm going to search for your thread on the Puppy Evaluation of the Pet Owner. I'm very interested to read that. As far as I'm concerned, the more details, the better! LOL

And yes, I am researching breeders first. I figure that I'm not just buying a pup. I'm developing a relationship. So finding the right breeder for me is very important.

Thank you so much for the excellent advice!

Thank you! I'm definitely going to read up about line breeding & out-cross breeding. Maybe I'm just a nerd, but I find all of this so fascinating! Of course, I have heard about certain lines & had a general idea about what it meant... but now that I'm starting to understand what is involved, I'm finding it very interesting.

I'm actually attending my first show next month in NYC. I'm so lucky that I live here & can go! I'm hoping to be able to see some of the dogs from the lines & breeders I have contacted. I'm going to be looking at these Yorkies very closely now to see if I can see any differences/similarities in their appearances. I've been so anxious about the show! But now that I know all of these other things about lines, I'm even more anxious!!

Thank you so much! You've been very helpful!

Thank you for the links! I'm so glad I posted this thread! I have so much information now!

I have actually asked the breeders about Spring or Summer litters. I wanted to be able to research the sire & dam of my next pup. It seems that most of the breeders I have contacted will be mating their pups in the next 4-10 weeks. They were able to tell me who will be bred & the sires. I will be contacting them again in March so that they can tell me which dams are pregnant.

So, your links will be extremely helpful for me! Thank you so much!

Main thing is. Hopefully the pup you get will be healthy and live a long healthy life. Thats comes from all the select breeding. Sure there always a chance of the pup having "problem" But less likey and if there are a good breeder with help you or even give you a new pup..which in all reality is hard to give up. Just a better chance than buying from a bad breeder which may have bad health traits bred into them. Good luck

Thank you for the link! All of this information is so interesting to me! The breeder I was referring to re: the "based on Wildweir lines" and "descended from Clarkwyn breeding" is Tom Becker of Wingold in NJ. The homepage of his website reads, "My dogs are known for their pretty heads, silky coats and cobby bodies. Based on Wildweir lines, my dogs are line bred and include certain dogs descended from Clarkwyn breeding." I suppose I'll have to research the sire & dam of the litter to find out exactly how/if the pup is "based on or descended from Wildweir/Clarkwyn".

Thank you so much for the information! I feel so much better about speaking with these breeders now. I can only imagine how much time & energy they put into their dogs. I don't want them to think that I'm clueless about a pup I could be bringing into my home. I also really want to understand the history of my next pup. Thank you very much!

Hi! Just to clarify. My dogs came from breedings
I did with Wildweir dogs, as well as dogs I
purchased DIRECTLY from them and breeders who bred to
their dogs and purchased from them. I probably have
more of their dogs in my pedigrees than anyone else in the World.
Joan, Janet and Nancy have been so kind to me. The Clarkwyn
dogs I favored and have all three in my pedigrees are the
three Eagles- Jubilee, Jamboree and Double. I
also added two others directly descended from
Jubie - Ch Cede Higgins and Ch Robtell Jubilation.
Clarkwyn was a true line FROM dogs of Wildweir breeding.

It is very interesting that the original standard and show winners had very wavy hair based on this:
Memoirs of Yorkies Past: Beginning Breeders of Yorkshire Terriers.

Mandie's hair is wavy like that..maybe not AS wavy, but it has waves...it's not straight like the standard is today.

Hi! Some yorkies have poker straight hair and
a few have a wave - most often over the rear leg.
Sometimes this means the dogs are more silver
than steel blue. But the silver-ish dogs often have
great silky texture which doesn't break or knot and grows
long. They did not have half the products we have now
or flat irons that are often used today. In thr. 80's
we washed our dogs before a show, put the wrappers on
and at show took them off- misted them with water and brushed
and went into the ring. Some waves were evident in the pictures.
I dont yet know how to paste a picture in my post but could
show you some examples. But then we didn 't have these
crazy sun visor all poofed up topknots which make them
look angry. One of the reasons I love the Wildweir dogs
is they have cheek and flat heads that made them pretty not
snipey weasel faces other lines had. They also were cobby. The
Yorkie breed is NOT to be a tall dog, an Afghan in miniature
and while so many adjectives apply elegant ( if it means tall ) is not
one the originators used. It can be balanced and not tall.

Thank you for replying. I think those poofy topknots can make them look angry, too lol

My Mandie has a wave in her body hair..for example, the more you go do from her backline, it gets a wave. She is more silver than blue, so that makes sense.

Also, I think many of her traits look like the Mayfair line.

I have a girl whose sire has Jubilee Eagle in 3 of his 4 grandparents lines, with him being doubled up on his maternal qrandmother's side.,so I find your posts very interesting.