Also FYI my vet would not spay a pregnant female unless her life was in danger. Why would you want to kill an entire litter of puppies?

Thanks for the info, I just think it is a little harsh the way ppl are coming off, I am completely aware that something could happen and that is why i am doing research as well as going to the vet and getting info from them. i was hoping by signing up on this site that i would be able to get helpful info. i just think some of the comments are a little over the top.

I knew it woud be coming which is why I warned you to ignore the negative. Some people thrive on upsetting people. So best to just ignore them and their fun will be over.

Well, I certainly would never say what you should do. But I do not equate spaying a dog with aborting a live fetus. Two different arguments.

But I do not think it would be totally out of the question ~ to sit back and think ~ 'Am I ready for this" and "What am I going to do with these little lives that I allowed to be created?"

A little introspection about how this 'accidental' pregnancy occurred and whether you (the universal YOU ~ not you personally) are really ready to take this on. To properly place puppies; to handle the costs and dangers to your girl.

No, I do not think it's out of the question to do a little soul-searching about what might be the right thing to do.

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From what I understand she has made herself fully aware of the implications of her actions, and therefore the pups have a heck of a good chance- as good as it can be really! Soul searching is for before a mating takes place, not after. It wasn't 'accidental' it was a deliberate mating as she said, her husband wanted to breed (or was that info on the other thread?)

A spay is not an option in this case as she has already said that will not be happening, so lets just get of that subject and try to offer any more Relevent advise we can, yes?
If we as an online community want to stop unnessesary yorkie deaths, disregarding what the breeder is saying and trying to get them to abort a perfectly viable litter isnt exactly going about it the right way... There have been many cases lately where that has been the right thing to Suggest, but once they say an absolute no- it's time to move on.
Because if this, I imagine there are so many that after reading previous threads such as this one, wont want to have to go through the same, so won't bother asking for help and assistance, possibly leading to an unnecessary death or two.

Yorkietweetie, have you started to get your whelping kit together? Do you know what you are going to use as a bed for them- going with an x-pen?

I wouldnt have advised spaying in this case but I think soul searching when it comes to bringing lives into this world where we have a pet overpopulation problem should be before, during and after. Its serious and it just seems some breed willy nilly and encourage others to do the same like them

Oh oh now that Ive posted that care and consideration should go into breeding Ill be accused of having a radical mindset. Oh well

Please don't assume I was saying to abort the puppies; I would never say that. I say only that examining the consequences of our actions is a good thing - now, during, before, and after the event in question.

That's not so radical is it?

Do we want all new members who might be reading this thread to think that putting two dogs together - with no further forethought - and no real idea about how to whelp . . do we really want everything to think this is a great and FANTASTIC idea???

I think not.

I agree - now is the time for damage control and for the OP to do the best she can with the whelp and the puppies.

Do I recommend that every single person that is considering breeding their dog give it a great deal of thought, research, and consideration?

I surely do. I will say no more and allow those who are willing to help this breeder, her female, and her puppies to get on with it.

Thanks so much Bellemarie. You have really been helpful and also Dawn27 gave me some helpful websites. You are right it is to late for soulsearching. i am really just trying to get some helpful information as time goes on. As well as staying very close to my vet and getting information from her.

This was a planned breeding that my husband wanted to do. i am going out and getting some supplies this weekend. i want to try to get them together now so i am not surprised at all.

Dawn27 gave me a wonderful site to go to very good site giving info on the items I need and also a image of a whelp box. I have really been reviewing this site given and others.
http://www.debbiejensen.com/heat_cycle.html

Any additional information that you have is greatly appreciated. i am putting funds away as well in case there is an emergency with my yorkie or the puppies. ;)

Sorry ringo1- I misinterperates what you were saying in ur 2nd par... I thought you were taking a pro-spay stance...
I agree with what you are saying- people shouldnt be so cavalier in their choice to breed, but I think this one. Seems to have been done to the best of her ability... And most of my post was just in general anyway- not specifically at you... Sorry for the misunderstandings! :)

Please dont think I am trying to breed all willy nilly. I totally under stand the over populated pets.

I apologize too for any misunderstandings. Now ~ Good Luck to all!

No I dont think you are I wasnt refering to you it was a general comment because of the conflict on here. I wouldnt have advised you to spay your dog on a planned breeding but do see where it can be necessary on accidental breedings. I do think the person who advised you to do it though heart is in the right place though. She just thinks consideration should go into breeding and maybe she didnt read all your doing to prepare for it

All I can say after reading this post is wow!!
I think because the title was yorkie prego it seam cavalier. After reading the complete post I don't think that is what the op is....
I think some member have seen a lot and it has made them very passionate about breeding. But to say not to breed is being hypocritical.
If no one breeds then where did you get your puppy? There are bad breeders... there are good breeders and there will be new breeders. If a person is responsible and careful and takes the time to LEARN they can breed. I did try rescue by the way.. before I Purchased my Yorkie.. did not work..I knew what dog or at least type of dog I wanted to fit my life style and could not find it in rescue or the rescue turned me down because I said I would crate my dog when I was not home.. so if there wasn't breeder I could not have a dog??
The shocker of the recommendation of spaying is not from a "bad" or "angry" person... well at least not in my opinion. I think she made a bad choice of wording and posting ..sorry if that makes you mad.. but it was soooooooooo out of line. So uncalled for and wrong to say. Yes, there may be times when it has to be done.. I can see that.. but not this time for sure.
I admire the members who are helpful.. I know you have helped me. Even the members who are more blunt are really good people.. if they are speaking from their hearts.
OP.... I wish you the best.. hope to hear only good news. Next time you breed you now will know some of the soul questions to ask your self.
Take care

thanks :)

i would just like to say thnks to everyone for the helpful information. I no there will be some ppl that are truely against it and i dont have to take it personal. So i just want to say thank you for all the info so far and the additional information i continue to get. :rolleyes:

It seems like you are getting some information, what I would like you to consider, if the prebreeding tests have not been done on your breeding pair, that you do what you can to remedy the situation after whelping and before your puppies go home.

Here are some of the tests: the pair is tested for PRA which must be done by an opthamologist and then you will receive a CERF number.

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

Xrays OFA;d for hips and elbows.

BATS done for LS

Some ppl do heart, thryoid and a hyperurocosuria genetic test.

I'm sure prior to breeding that you found out about the health history of the lines, and thus have a good understanding of the incidence of any of the above conditions.

I wish you a safe whelp

This seams like logical and great advice.. I would like to ask an off topic question.. sorry op..but maybe the answer will help you too

you said

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

I had my Remy checked.. the vet said no lp all was well. Is that enough or should I go to an othopaedic surgeon to-- I don't have any reasons to think she has lp..

Thanks
Shinja

just letting you guys know that from the information I had to work with it did not sound like an experienced or responsible breeding and did sound like an accident to me. i am not some kind of crazy abortion freak, in fact I am quite against it. what I failed to mention was that it would depend fully on how far along the pregnancy really was whether to spay or not. if she's not very far at all that's very different than if she's extrememly far and the pups are already forming little bodies. i wouldn't dream of someone wanting to abort even partly developed puppies and what i was talking about was defin. in the very, very beginning stages of conception. i am sorry that you would think i am into late term doggie abortion. and i'm 100% against human abortion, which makes me slightly question why I agree with ANY dog abortion at all, but there lies the part of me that grew up on a farm and still somewhat sees an animal a bit differently than a human. and the other half of me says killing any animal on purpose is WRONG, but if you go by just that then euthanasias are wrong and i'm totally all for a well thought out euthanasia when a dog is in pain and suffering...

you are sparked a great deal of debate in my heart. and i do want to appologize for seeming like I was saying to spay/abort a late term dog's pregnancy for that was not what I intended at all.

I am not cruel as i know that post must have made me sound, i was posting in the heat of the moment where I had just been reading soooo many unplanned and planned yorkie pregnancies that were at the hands of people who knew nothing about whelping and i was posting in the frustrations I was still having from how many pregnant yorkies we have on YT. it breaks my heart to know that these could have been prevented. It's hard when you switch to the rescue and rehab side of things, you see dogs PTS all the time that you can' save or get adopted, and you see starving, sick, dying dogs that no one wants and no one loves. it's painful to experience and makes me really really frustrated with people who are breeding on a whim.

again please accept my apologies for my brash behavior. i'm dealing with a lot of emotions right now and trying to sort them all out into more educational but kindly put posts.

as I said...

The shocker of the recommendation of spaying is not from a "bad" or "angry" person... well at least not in my opinion. I think she made a bad choice of wording -- and I did think it was not the best choice of words.

I felt there was more to the story... and in some cases you would have been right.

I have so much respect for you because you explained your statment and the emotions behind it.

The presence of mild LP is usually easily assessed by a good general vet. For certification of clear knees an orthopaedic surgeon must assess, as this is their specialty. But if you trust your vet and their experience, and they say Remy's knees are good, they most likely are.

I agree that spaying this pregnant yorkie would not be recommended just because the owner was remiss in learning about breeding/whelping BEFORE her dogs mated. There is still time for a crash course and with careful liaison with the vet and hopefully finding a mentor, this could all have a good outcome.

Still there are SO many questions that are not answered and I worry for the answers. Are the dam and sire breeding quality? What sizes, ages, and health histories? Are they truly the best examples of the breed to be perpetuated? What are the circumstances of the breeding program? Curiosity? Making money? Or really trying to breed a better yorkie and make sure the qualities laid out in the breed standards are carried forward?

Here is one of the best sources online for info (besides Yorkietalk that is) Dog Breeding and Canine Reproduction by Debbie Jensen. Dog Breeding and Whelping guide for dog breeders. The video she sells would be a good investment but definately read all of the free info she has immediately. I would contact your nearest dog fanciers club or go to ytca.org and use their breeder referral function to find a yorkie breeder near you. Then I would beg to learn under their tutelege. If you found the breeder of your dogs knowledgable and ethical, you might try starting there. Finding someone who actually has a litter that they might let you witness being born would be a great help for you! But you can prepare yourself to help your girl by reading too. Read everything you can get your hands on. You owe it to your girl to be thoroughly prepared. They are not like a beagle or a lab -- they have been bred so small, many thing can and do go wrong. They need our help more often than not. The danger to the dam does not stop on delivery day either. You have to watch her very carefully afterwards. Many things to learn in a very short time. Good luck! Don't hesitate to ask you find a question about something you have read or experienced. Many good minds here to help!

Rachel -- although I disagreed with your previous advice, I do understand you gave it with a good heart. You are very passionate about people who breed without any forethought or advance preparation. So am I. I think in this case, the OP can do some speed studying and stay in close contact with her vet, and even hopefully find a mentor in time to save this situation (and hopefully all the precious lives involved). The order was not right, but we have to be careful and not have such a knee-jerk reaction that we actually destroy lives unnecessarily either.

Sometimes after so many emotionally charged situations, it does make a long-time member here a little over-wrought and words do not come out quite as we intend. I understand the frustration and have had to take breaks in the past to cool off a little and help myself focus on all the things being done right instead of the almost callous disregard some show for their pets. Keep caring as you do but a little restraint is okay too. (Listen to me -- the one who has not shown much restraint herself! Easier said than done sometimes. :) ).

Although I would want to have my dog seen by a specialist if they were found to have anything other than no or very mild lp by my regular vet, I do not know of a requirement to have them see an orthopaedic surgeon for certification of clear knees. As far as I know, a regular vet can evaluate and submit the application to OFA, who then makes the determination to certify or not. Is that what you meant -- that at OFA an ortho surgeon would make the final call? If I am wrong, just point me in the direction I need to update myself. I have been going by what I read on offa.org and their application forms. TIA.

I think she was replying to me on my question about lp. Remy does not have any signs of lp.. but I did ask the vet on our first visit and he said she was fine. If I trust my vet that is enough - of course I would go farther if she had any signs.

If both are old enough to breed and you saw them lock then....
 

She is probably pregnant and today would be her 26th day. They begin to show at about 30 days. I started day 1 on the 14 of Feb. Your puppies should be due anytime after 59 days. Puppies born before 59 days may have not have had time to appropriately mature the lungs. Most yorkie puppies are born between the 60th ( 4/18) and 63rd (4/21) days. I have some info I can email you if you will send an email to mbowens@cfl.rr.com . I have delivered lots of dogs over the years and I am a retired middle school science teacher. Good Luck, Mary

D. Jensen is an excellent resource and an experienced mentor! Great Advice
 

I use the temp chart for the final weeks and she has lots of information about the developmental stage of the puppy as it matures. Debra's advice is right on! The only thing outside of getting the help of your vet and an experienced mentor would be to read everything you can get your hands on. Yes some of it may be bogus but lots or research and reading makes you more informed and a critical thinker. Here is my phone number and email if you have questions and please read and start hammering us with questions so we can help you do this successfully. One thing we all agree on is that we want mom and puppies healthy, happy and safe. Debra is wonderful and demonstrates responsible and knowledge based information. Many of the long timers here really know their stuff and will go out of their way to help you on your path. My email and phone is mbowens@cfl.rr.com and 321 254 9765. We will look out for your questions and work with you. Take care, Mary

We need to get your little momma prepared...
 

If you will send me your email, I have some documents about the diet for little momma. I have it on word docs and can not attach them to this type of forum format ( at least I don't know how). You can use the info and use it to generate information from YT. There is lots to know and the more info you have the better you can prepare momma, get environment for whelping ready and prepare for nursery. You have a huge YT forum of experts that will gladly help. The info will just give you another tool to get started with. Mary at mbowens@cfl.rr.com

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