In YOUR case, it's probably not going to matter one way or the other if you have them tested for anything or not. Your dogs were puppy mill dogs. As has been discussed here before, per your own admittal, you have little to no knowledge of their backgrounds, including their medical histories or if they are really even Yorkies. You say the dam and sire are healthy--GREAT! That tells you NOTHING about the other dogs in the lines, NOTHING about what they may or may not be passing on.
Yes, by all means, have them tested and screened and eliminate as many issues as possible. Not having a good knowledge of lineage and a healthy dam and sire is not validation for not doing any kind of tests--is a clue that they shouldn't be bred to begin with!

The topic being originally being discussed here was more in relation to breeders testing dogs within their own well established lines...not a first generation from questionable background. The 'theories' being discussed here don't even apply to you and your situation.

my oh my miss know it all again!!!i never never posted the rest of Rocky s story just the bad part. but YOU know it all of course.!!!! But now you do not, you are offically on my ignore list!
you follow people around and bash them intentionally. i read your posts too

Then please enlighten us. Maybe you are not being given a fair chance. I am not above admitting I have misjudged someone IF that is the case. I would be very interested to know how this situation...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...very-sick.html

...took such a drastic turn, given all you shared about his breeders, that you decided your boy was a good canidate for breeding.

It's got nothing to do with 'following people around.' I thought this was a rather informative thread, then all of a sudden someone suggests that because they don't know anything about their dogs' background, that they shouldn't even bother testing their pups. :eek: What kind of impression and potentially harmful ideas does that give anyone reading this thread and trying to learn? :confused: Sorry, but whether it's you or someone else, those types of statements should be addressed, IMO, not left uncontested for beginners to consider.

Well my dear, since Rocky was ill .... i called the breeder who was in TX back up and spoke to the wife. This happened way later after he was ill with the worms. I cleared the air with her of how i got the pup and he made it up to Nj and what was going on. She provided with the health records of the pup and its parents. I bashed her husband, and then i felt horrible , who they are very elderly by the way and i almost gave the poor man a hear attack. He said he was a USDA certified breeder.(alway thought USDA meant puppymill) Litter to say later i found out they were not a puppy mill. But i bashed him and he explained in the later phone call that he was not and why he had to be USDA. i just assumed, which assuming is so bad, that he was. I got all the information that i needed on him, to say he is breedable by my standards. although i did spend in the meantime my $1000 having him tested because i did not know where he came from before i cleared it up with the breeder.
Please the next time you read something. ask more questions, you come off to be a really mean person. pehaps you should be more informative before you speak and speak nice to people and they will listen.

i have no information on the grandparents? should i ? that is why i posted on this page

First, to answer your question, so that it cannot be said that I didn't do that: YES, you should have very detailed information on the grandparents, including but certainly not limited to their health histories...as well as littermates and other dogs produced within the line. Genetic issues often skip generation, or may show up only in some dogs from the same litter.

They 'have to be USDA breeders?' Then they also 'have to' obide by USDA regulations to keep that status--regulations that are not fit for dogs. Nor does it change the fact that they sold their dogs to a broker, whom you purchased him from, at a VERY early age--you say you got him a 9 1/2 weeks and at that point he'd already been bought and transported across country. And, you still don't have info on the other dogs in his line. This is your idea of a trustworthy, reputable breeder? And a dog that should be bred? (Not to mention that he's just the stud--takes more than just a stud to produce a litter.)

I'm really not concerned with if I come across as a "mean" person. (Let us not get into a comparison of what people come across as.;)) I'm more concerned with coming across as a person interested in the health and well being of dogs, the overall promotion of the breed itself and one who does not condone unethical breeding practices. :)

We as humans should be concerned also of genetics among ourselves and we are not. which i find concerning. we reproduce to others that have cancers in the family, have obesity which causes most health issues and diseases and these issues skip generations for sure. yes we do have the ability to control dogs heath and we do have the ability also to control the human race. if i did not care to learn so much i would i be on here. But like i have said other times to people, I have lost so must disrespect for AKC during the process. i was offered 2x from different stud owners of AKC studs to falsify papers for a fee for me and i refused. i consider myself ethical and respectable for i could LIE and misrepresent my dogs and pups and i am honest about where they come from and find nothing wrong with that. Yes i see where everyone is coming from with all the grandparents, and great grandparent lineage. but i am perfectly fine with what i know about my dogs. i am just surprised that the OP along with friends come up with pups with issues even due to all the history involved in knowing. That that shows me that it really does not matter what the deep lines are for real. i guess i got my answer on this thread

Yes, and we as humans get to choose whether or not we reproduce knowing that there are genetic traits than can cause our offspring issues.

And the best thing we can do for those such dogs in which carry substandard genes, or of which we know no history of to have them fixed so as to not pass possible genetic diseases that can cause puppies insane amounts of pain during the course of their shortened lifespans.

You're honest about where they come from, but how much exactly do you know about your dogs? So you got the papers on one of your dogs, what about the others? With puppymill dogs its hard to say the puppy millers actually know who the real stud was, or didn't fudge the paperwork to say they were in fact purebred dogs.

The OP and her friends are breeders that study the lines, trying to find that one thing that causes genetic traits to show, there is a lot of work involved in it and they will run into setbacks when something they weren't expecting (a pup with LP coming from perfectly healthy lines) so then they have to find out what happened to cause it. It's not something that one should take up as a hobby using puppy mill dogs that they don't know enough about the backgrounds on.

And what exactly was that? You're always right and everyone that says different is mean? Good luck with that, I hope your puppies actually live long happy healthy lives, and don't wind up suffering from some horribly painful genetic disease passed on from one of your dams or sires that you haven't studied the backgrounds on...

Why on Earth would that make you lose disrespect for AKC? It's the breeders who were willing to be dishonest, not AKC. Out of curiosity, did you notify AKC of the offer so they could investigate? Why blame AKC? Blame the breeders.

Of course, blaming AKC and condemning the organization would make more sense when breeding unregistered dogs....

If anyone reads this thread and chooses to interpret it as "it doesn't matter how well you know the lines or if you perform health test," then they have seriously misunderstood what was being discussed. If one feels that health testing is pointless and they see no problem with breeding puppy mill dogs with no knowledge on their backgrounds, ESPECIALLY the medical background....then that speaks LOADS about their breeding practice.

And sadly, there's a sucker born every minute. There are people who will never take the time to research prior to buying a dog and will never learn that is the kind of thing one should AVOID in a breeder.

Fortunately, there are some who do come here to learn that will read discussions like those in this thread and will slow down long enough to really think the situation over thus enabling themselves to make wiser choices when looking for a dog. :)

no you miss understood me. i just believe that my adult dogs parent, the grandparents of the puppy, are important beyond that it does not matter to me, and i have that info

Hey Cally! Saw you in this thread and wanted to say hey. (: We experienced this at 4 months with Khloe, and have to go back at 6 months. The vet tech did this test too early. I'm not looking to breed, but it's nice to know. I hope that you are doing well. Take care!

:confused:

No, I'm pretty sure I have not understood you at all. You have stated time and time again since joining YT that your dogs came from puppy mills/brokers, that you were scammed by the breeders, lied to, and how you have little information on their backgrounds.

I find it hard to believe that you could possibly know as much about your dogs that you can consider them quality breeding stock....per most standards, obviously not your own.

If you are comfortable with it, which you clearly are, then that speaks for itself.

Felicity -- Do you really know anything about the parents and grandparents? You posted that the USDA breeder told you he never sends his pups out unless they are 2 pounds, and yours was only 15 ounces at 9 weeks. At that point, it seemed he did not believe the pup was from his breeding. You bought from someone misrepresenting themself to be the USDA breeder in TX -- who knows where they really got this pup. Without microchip, there is no way to know where he came from.

As for 2 people approaching you willing to falsify AKC records for breeding, I would seriously be wondering about the crowd you run with. I have been around yorkies for quite some time now and have shown my interest in breeding to MANY other breeders and NEVER once has anyone ever tried to tempt me with an illegal scheme. AKC tries to institute rules to PREVENT just that thing! That is why they are requiring DNA testing in some instances. That is why they have a reporting and investigation process.

BTW You seem to think being a USDA breeder is a good thing. I know of NO good breeders that have a USDA license. It is required to mass produce and sell dogs wholesale -- meaning they sell to pet stores and brokers, never caring who gets the puppies.

You really should NOT breed the dogs you have. If you are serious about breeding, hook up with a good breeder willing to mentor you. When you are ready they may let you in on their line -- that way you know you have some pups that are worthy of breeding. To continue to breed dogs of such dubious background is just not responsible. Obviously they can be wonderful pets, but no reason to breed them. Don't take the short cuts -- if you are going to do it, make the right choices. You will be so much prouder in the long run!

This started out being such an interesting thread.

I am the Original Poster and I will ask for this thread to be closed.

Rather than an informative discussion on the "issues" within our breed, perhaps some links to good longtidutional studies on different aspects of Yorkie helath, I realized sadly that the "age old" question reared it's head again, if there is no guarantee then why test?

Quite simply everyone, you don't Breed a Sick Dog. If a dog has LS it is sick, if a dog has LP it is sick, if a dog has PRA it is sick. It is in all good conscience the minimum of what a reputable breeder does.

I would have liked to see more posts like Woogie Man's, thoughtful, informative, worthy of consideration.

And for Felicity, there have been some studies that show a horizontal understanding of the pedigree is much more informative on inheritability of certain polygenetic conditions than a vertical one. This means, you want to know the health of the litter your dog came from. And stepping back the sire's and dam's litter health.

If you go to the OFA website and type in elbow dyslpasia for example, you will find some seriously informative statistics. For example if you breed a dog with elbow dysplasia to another dog with elbow dysplasia, you have increased your risks significantly in having a big proportion of that litter with elbow dysplasia.

I thank all that took the time to respond.