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Mardelin 06-20-2010 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3169461)
There was nothing rude about your responses. It appears that factual and bluntness is often taken for rudeness.

I would very much like a few posters to take a few phone calls at 1, 2 or 3 in the morning. Assisst in a whelp. Some calls are just to calm the nerves of a newbie breeder and some calls are identifying whelps that are going back and advising the breeder to get the vet. Yes, many of these calls are from YT members that for some reason or another have no mentor or because of a oops breeding they have no experience. Yes, alot of this goes on here at YT

While we may be blunt in our answers to newbie wanna be breeders that don't listen to our advice. We never turn them away when it concerns the life of a dog.
Oops! Spelling correction "bad"

FL Tink 06-20-2010 07:33 AM
Not in regards to breeding, but just topics in general, I believe you when you mix thousands of people together there is bound to be disagreement and arguments. Some people are very passionate about their opinions almost to the point that they cant possibly consider other's opinions or ideas.
So, over the years, I have learned if there is anything I want to say to offer assistance, i do it via pm from a fear of being bashed. Although that has never happened to me here I see it alot! Which i guess in the long run is very sad since this is a format where we are supposed to share ideas and learn from each other. Isnt it ironic?:D

Mardelin 06-20-2010 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Tink (Post 3169472)
Not in regards to breeding, but just topics in general, I believe you when you mix thousands of people together there is bound to be disagreement and arguments. Some people are very passionate about their opinions almost to the point that they cant possibly consider other's opinions or ideas.
So, over the years, I have learned if there is anything I want to say to offer assistance, i do it via pm from a fear of being bashed. Although that has never happened to me here I see it alot! Which i guess in the long run is very sad since this is a format where we are supposed to share ideas and learn from each other. Isnt it ironic?:D
It is ironic and I understand what you're saying. However, when you have someone that is asking questions and you provide advice, based on experience and what is correct and they don't take advice. That's when topics get heated. When those people asking for advice are just asking for affirmation and going to do what they're going to do.

I use to just keep on attempting to answer their questions by responding with my answers in different ways, it hopes that my responses weren't getting through because of the way I was communicating. Now, when that happens, I know that I won't continue attempting to change their minds and contribute to a newbie's irresponsible breeding practices. I respond with "I'm done", go the top and unsubscribe to that particular thread.

WinstonMom 06-20-2010 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie Lou (Post 3169392)
You know what....YOU started this thread. Poor, poor pitiful you. Getting your feelings hurt because you were rude to some ppl on here who came here for advice and they got upset with your rudeness. Boo~hoo. This is all quite hypocritcal and ridiculous. Congratulations for taking what was intended to be a useful and "friendly" website and using it to toot your little horns and make fun of others. I mean really!....You all make fun of the way ppl spell and puncuate on here for crying out loud. Who do these ppl think they are????
Go find or create a website that is "Just for Breeders". Then you can all stay on there all day and pat each other on the back for evidentally being so fabulous at what you do....never making any mistakes or saying anything that isn't right out of a textbook. Too bad we weren't all around to watch you make your mistakes in the beginning. Remember that it's not always WHAT you say....but HOW you say it.
I think I'm done with this place.
I don't recall ever seeing a breeder on this site saying that they have never made a mistake. I for one, have made plenty. When a "want to be breeder" is told that they could lose puppies, need a c-section, lose their mama dog, etc. usually these answers are pulled out of a personal experience bank and not out of a textbook. Most of these threads start off perfectly polite, but it just gets so frustrating when good advice is not taken.

megansmomma 06-20-2010 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3169479)
It is ironic and I understand what you're saying. However, when you have someone that is asking questions and you provide advice, based on experience and what is correct and they don't take advice. That's when topics get heated. When those people asking for advice are just asking for affirmation and going to do what they're going to do.

I use to just keep on attempting to answer their questions by responding with my answers in different ways, it hopes that my responses weren't getting through because of the way I was communicating. Now, when that happens, I know that I won't continue attempting to change their minds and contribute to a newbie's irresponsible breeding practices. I respond with "I'm done", go the top and unsubscribe to that particular thread.
IMO it does your statement applies to just about every section of this forum. We all try to give advice nicely and then others attack us when things start to go south. It happens over and over again. After repeated attacks by so many you begin to think there is no hope to make a change or difference.

gemy 06-20-2010 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magerita (Post 3168966)
I understand everyones frustration but at the same time no one starts off as an experienced breeder, we all have to Start off some where. Also it is very easy to take what someone posts he wrong way. I personally joined this site because 8 months ago I took in a 3 year old yorkie. I have loved every moment spent with her and I would love to breed her. I can think of anhing better then bringing more joys into the world.I would like to use this site as another source or information, obviously not my only source. But after reading what I have On this posting and others I personally feel like this isn't quite the place for me. I would like others to share in my excitment and help out other than detour me.
That is very true. Learning often times comes in uncomfortable situations. I'm not sure that anyone here wants to "detour" you, maybe to deter you into truly considering the risks of breeding. Our members are passionate about the health and well being of Yorkshire Terriers.

Do you know the statistics on birthing problems within this breed? The incidence of genetic defects within this breed? If you go into breeding this girl, then go into it with your eyes wide open. There will not be much joy for you or potential new owners of your pups with problems such as LS, MVD, Leggs Perthe, LP, and all sorts of other conditions that could present.

We are the caretakers and guardians of every dog we own, it is our responsibility to keep them out of harm's way, to nuture, to love these amazing creatures. And know this that breeding any female, no matter how healthy put's them at risk.

I hope that you stay on this site to read and learn, to re-evaluate and constantly question your desire to breed.

megansmomma 06-20-2010 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169485)
That is very true. Learning often times comes in uncomfortable situations. I'm not sure that anyone here wants to "detour" you, maybe to deter you into truly considering the risks of breeding. Our members are passionate about the health and well being of Yorkshire Terriers.

Do you know the statistics on birthing problems within this breed? The incidence of genetic defects within this breed? If you go into breeding this girl, then go into it with your eyes wide open. There will not be much joy for you or potential new owners of your pups with problems such as LS, MVD, Leggs Perthe, LP, and all sorts of other conditions that could present.

We are the caretakers and guardians of every dog we own, it is our responsibility to keep them out of harm's way, to nuture, to love these amazing creatures. And know this that breeding any female, no matter how healthy put's them at risk.

I hope that you stay on this site to read and learn, to re-evaluate and constantly question your desire to breed.
Excellent post! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

sashazx75 06-20-2010 08:57 AM
chatter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007 (Post 3168830)
Reputable breeders are not into breeding for profit they do not get rid of their females when they are done breeding they find them the best homes possible. You really ought to go back over your posts and correct them if you think they were taken the wrong way. Oh and if the maggie you are referring to was me then please copy and paste the post where I supposedly started all this. The only thread I started even remotely having anything to do with you was this one and it was never directed solely at you.
....yes it was you sry not sure how to paste it was on another post about what i said i wanted a pup no harm in that meaning what's wrong with keeping an offspring from my girl i'mnot breeding her after this and i learned alot of what can happened but any dog can have problems even us humans...i lost my first female yorkie at 11wks she was born with fluid around the brain i did everything i could to save her but i couldn't so i research alot on this breed i bought 3 books but you learn as you go along...i know my yorkies background and the stud's background...and like you say you find the best homes possible when there done breeding i couldn't do that there family and they mean too much to me i'm attached..

gemy 06-20-2010 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sashazx75 (Post 3169546)
....yes it was you sry not sure how to paste it was on another post about what i said i wanted a pup no harm in that meaning what's wrong with keeping an offspring from my girl i'mnot breeding her after this and i learned alot of what can happened but any dog can have problems even us humans...i lost my first female yorkie at 11wks she was born with fluid around the brain i did everything i could to save her but i couldn't so i research alot on this breed i bought 3 books but you learn as you go along...i know my yorkies background and the stud's background...and like you say you find the best homes possible when there done breeding i couldn't do that there family and they mean too much to me i'm attached..

Sasha I'm confused. Do you mean that you are breeding your female because you want another Yorkie? If this is true, why not adopt a rescue? There are so many Yorkies all over North America looking for a loving and good home. It would be so great if you could do that. The costs of adoption are so reasonable, and you to a large extent know what you are getting. All health checks done, upto date on shots, etc. Then no need to risk your female with breeding her, just neuter, and adopt and have two Yorkies to love and pamper. Truly it is so much more economical to adopt, then to go through the risky and expensive process of breeding.

sashazx75 06-20-2010 09:18 AM
breeding
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169557)
Sasha I'm confused. Do you mean that you are breeding your female because you want another Yorkie? If this is true, why not adopt a rescue? There are so many Yorkies all over North America looking for a loving and good home. It would be so great if you could do that. The costs of adoption are so reasonable, and you to a large extent know what you are getting. All health checks done, upto date on shots, etc. Then no need to risk your female with breeding her, just neuter, and adopt and have two Yorkies to love and pamper. Truly it is so much more economical to adopt, then to go through the risky and expensive process of breeding.
..i understand there is yorkies looking to be adopted i didn't know there was such a huge risk that's why i came on here to meet nice ppl and to learn that's why this is the only time i'm breeding her and would like to keep 1 and it would be nice to have mother and hopefully daughter together that's why after i bred her and found all this out i have my breeder with me if i need her and my vet is only 1min from my house if there is any complications she's due this fri or sat so i'm gonna be prepared...

sandybobb 06-20-2010 09:22 AM
[I was one of those people that came wanting to learn. My Yorkies are my life, And I am very grateful to the responsible breeders on this site and my mentors.]

I too am very thankful for this website. I did a load of reading and talking with breeders and going to shows before acquiring my little ones..... but things still come up that you haven't encountered before and it is great to have this site to come & be able to ask if others have had similar experiences. I however do sometimes hesitate to post ...... but in the end - I would hate to lose this resource. It's invaluable.

maggiesmom_2007 06-20-2010 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandybobb (Post 3169566)
[I was one of those people that came wanting to learn. My Yorkies are my life, And I am very grateful to the responsible breeders on this site and my mentors.]

I too am very thankful for this website. I did a load of reading and talking with breeders and going to shows before acquiring my little ones..... but things still come up that you haven't encountered before and it is great to have this site to come & be able to ask if others have had similar experiences. I however do sometimes hesitate to post ...... but in the end - I would hate to lose this resource. It's invaluable.

Hey Stranger,
What have you been up to? How are your girls? Have you started showing yet?

maggiesmom_2007 06-20-2010 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sashazx75 (Post 3169546)
....yes it was you sry not sure how to paste it was on another post about what i said i wanted a pup no harm in that meaning what's wrong with keeping an offspring from my girl i'mnot breeding her after this and i learned alot of what can happened but any dog can have problems even us humans...i lost my first female yorkie at 11wks she was born with fluid around the brain i did everything i could to save her but i couldn't so i research alot on this breed i bought 3 books but you learn as you go along...i know my yorkies background and the stud's background...and like you say you find the best homes possible when there done breeding i couldn't do that there family and they mean too much to me i'm attached..
Highlight the post then left click then select copy and come back to this thread and left click and paste.

Anyway to clear up something I said reputable breeders find good homes for their females. I have only had to rehome one of my females and that was due to keeping her from attacking and possibly seriously hurting my other Yorkies. She lost an entire litter because of a vets ignorance. She is now very happy being the only dog in her new home. Personally My female that I have now there is no way I would ever let her go anywhere even after she is done breeding. I hope the best for your female and the pups your expecting. I really hope all goes well for you also. But as far as I am concerned I am done with this discussion and for now on will only reply to people who are serious about breeding for the betterment of the breed and not for personal needs.

Mardelin 06-20-2010 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007 (Post 3169604)
Highlight the post then left click then select copy and come back to this thread and left click and paste.

Anyway to clear up something I said reputable breeders find good homes for their females. I have only had to rehome one of my females and that was due to keeping her from attacking and possibly seriously hurting my other Yorkies. She lost an entire litter because of a vets ignorance. She is now very happy being the only dog in her new home. Personally My female that I have now there is no way I would ever let her go anywhere even after she is done breeding. I hope the best for your female and the pups your expecting. I really hope all goes well for you also. But as far as I am concerned I am done with this discussion and for now on will only reply to people who are serious about breeding for the betterment of the breed and not for personal needs.
I've yet to rehome any of mine. But, thorougly understand when rehoming is necessary. For the good of the dog. And one needs to know that it is for the good of the dog, and not our personal feelings. A chance to give a dog the undivided attention and love it so deserves. Also, the ability to add joy to someone's life. Since most of these dogs are placed in homes for the price of a spay/nueter and teeth cleaning. It at times gives a person that doesn't have the means to afford a puppy the chance to have a yorkie with many years left. Especially to someone that is more mature and doesn't have the fortitude to deal with training a pup.

BamaFan121s 06-20-2010 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ute White (Post 3169418)
But if someone comes on here and has a question...well, just help out. The damage is done but don't make it worse by telling people how unresponsible they are to get the pup at 8 weeks or why in hell they want to breed and then those people are offended and disappear.
I disagree. If they are putting their dogs at risk, then they should be told. Because obviously, they didn't realize that or they'd have never done it, right? If not for their own benefit, then for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading and getting information from the thread. By not speaking up for the best interests of the dog, the message being sent is, "hey I can do whatever I want, breed with no idea what I'm doing, and these people will hold my hand and guide me through it no matter what."

I hope that those kind of breeders DO read the strong responses and think twice before posting. Or even better yet, that it comes across so strongly that they think twice before breeding their dog without proper preparation and breeding education.

gemy 06-20-2010 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sashazx75 (Post 3169564)
..i understand there is yorkies looking to be adopted i didn't know there was such a huge risk that's why i came on here to meet nice ppl and to learn that's why this is the only time i'm breeding her and would like to keep 1 and it would be nice to have mother and hopefully daughter together that's why after i bred her and found all this out i have my breeder with me if i need her and my vet is only 1min from my house if there is any complications she's due this fri or sat so i'm gonna be prepared...
I have loved every moment spent with her and I would love to breed her. I can think of anhing better then bringing more joys into the world.I would like to use this site as another source or information, obviously not my only source.


Sasha in this same thread you posted that you would love to breed her, and that you have already bred her.

Which is it?

You seem to be making it up as you go along. Disingenuous at the minimum .

You have got lots of advice whatever the "truth" of the situation is.

I am done with this thread - prevaricators are not worth the time of my day,

BamaFan121s 06-20-2010 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169662)
You seem to be making it up as you go along. Disingenuous at the minimum .
So it would seem.

Sasha, you say that you didn't know the risks and you didn't find out until after you bred her, but then in another post you turn around and claim that you have experience, a mentor and have done your research. If the latter is true, then you would have been aware of the risks. Then you change again stating that you learn as you go and everyone starts somewhere. It seems to be quite contradictory, depending on which point you are trying to make at the time.

BamaFan121s 06-20-2010 11:32 AM
Here's what I have never been able to figure out.

When people post about something we view as mistreatment of their dogs--leaving them outside during extreme heat/cold, not getting them proper vet care or medical treatment when needed, everyone gets upset and is quick to jump in. Because ultimately, it could result in the dog's death or cause pain and suffering. And that's OK, because it's in the best interest of the dog.

UNTIL it comes to breeding. Then it's not OK to speak up for the dog. Same risks are there, but then and only then, we should bite our tongues and keep quiet. :confused:

Now explain that logic.

I'd be willing to be that if someone came on here posting about how they beat their dog, or left them out in freezing conditions, you wouldn't see these same comments saying "just be nice...the damage is already done."

gemy 06-20-2010 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3169683)
Here's what I have never been able to figure out.

When people post about something we view as mistreatment of their dogs--leaving them outside during extreme heat/cold, not getting them proper vet care or medical treatment when needed, everyone gets upset and is quick to jump in. Because ultimately, it could result in the dog's death or cause pain and suffering. And that's OK, because it's in the best interest of the dog.

UNTIL it comes to breeding. Then it's not OK to speak up for the dog. Same risks are there, but then and only then, we should bite our tongues and keep quiet. :confused:

Now explain that logic.

I'd be willing to be that if someone came on here posting about how they beat their dog, or left them out in freezing conditions, you wouldn't see these same comments saying "just be nice...the damage is already done."

There is no logic to it. Nevva a scintilla of reason. I think that somehow despite our educated mindset, there is the nature thing. Ya know - how wonderfull to let and even encourage animals to be animals. Get a female pregnant no worries, after all Nature will take care of everything. Somehow there are no risks in anyones' mind about getting a female dog pregnant. Everthing will go as Nature intended. Somehow the reasoning that posters present, oh she is so lovely/beautifull/precious, I just "want" her to experience giving birth, "I" want her to experience puppies and to have another precious puppy just like her, I want my kids to experience birth, I want , I want , I want.

I want as if that is Justification for putting your female dog at so much risk. I want as if that is reason enough to put into this world puppies, that need so much, that need to find a home after the whelping is done.

I WANT is no NO reason to breed.

Rhetts_mama 06-20-2010 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169709)
There is no logic to it. Nevva a scintilla of reason. I think that somehow despite our educated mindset, there is the nature thing. Ya know - how wonderfull to let and even encourage animals to be animals. Get a female pregnant no worries, after all Nature will take care of everything. Somehow there are no risks in anyones' mind about getting a female dog pregnant. Everthing will go as Nature intended. Somehow the reasoning that posters present, oh she is so lovely/beautifull/precious, I just "want" her to experience giving birth, "I" want her to experience puppies and to have another precious puppy just like her, I want my kids to experience birth, I want , I want , I want.

I want as if that is Justification for putting your female dog at so much risk. I want as if that is reason enough to put into this world puppies, that need so much, that need to find a home after the whelping is done.

I WANT is no NO reason to breed.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

capt_noonie 06-20-2010 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169709)
There is no logic to it. Nevva a scintilla of reason. I think that somehow despite our educated mindset, there is the nature thing. Ya know - how wonderfull to let and even encourage animals to be animals. Get a female pregnant no worries, after all Nature will take care of everything. Somehow there are no risks in anyones' mind about getting a female dog pregnant. Everthing will go as Nature intended. Somehow the reasoning that posters present, oh she is so lovely/beautifull/precious, I just "want" her to experience giving birth, "I" want her to experience puppies and to have another precious puppy just like her, I want my kids to experience birth, I want , I want , I want.

I want as if that is Justification for putting your female dog at so much risk. I want as if that is reason enough to put into this world puppies, that need so much, that need to find a home after the whelping is done.

I WANT is no NO reason to breed.
:thumbup:

MaddiesMommie 06-20-2010 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3168621)
I try to say out of the breeder forum with my lack of breeding knowledge but sometimes I really need to speak up. The things that I have read are just sometimes jaw dropping and downright disturbing. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone who doesn't know what they are doing would decided to allow dogs to mate then worry about things like money and whelping afterward. Sometimes I would like to reach through the laptop and smack the back of a few head with a "What were you think?":eek:
I know exactly what you are saying. I am no breeder, but I am smart enough to leave it to the pro's. Some of the things said by ppl are just jaw dropping, even to a non-breeder like myself.

BamaFan121s 06-20-2010 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169709)
Get a female pregnant no worries, after all Nature will take care of everything. Somehow there are no risks in anyones' mind about getting a female dog pregnant. Everthing will go as Nature intended.
You are so right! See that said a lot. Of course, the laws of nature dictate that 'only the strongest survive' which would mean that any canine that could not physically handle whelp would die. Soooo....do you really want to leave it all up to nature?


That's another of those 'excuses' that magically only seems to apply when it's convenient to justify breeding your dog. Wonder how many of the other aspects of the dog's life, or the owner's life they use that logic to dictate. Not many I'm guessing.

AMD 06-20-2010 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magerita (Post 3168966)
I understand everyones frustration but at the same time no one starts off as an experienced breeder, we all have to Start off some where. Also it is very easy to take what someone posts he wrong way. I personally joined this site because 8 months ago I took in a 3 year old yorkie. I have loved every moment spent with her and I would love to breed her. I can think of anyhing better then bringing more joys into the world.I would like to use this site as another source or information, obviously not my only source. But after reading what I have On this posting and others I personally feel like this isn't quite the place for me. I would like others to share in my excitment and help out other than detour me.
I would agree it is very easy to take something the wrong way- with the absence of voice tone and facial expression. :) Yes, everybody DOES have to start somewhere but don't let it be an excuse to ignore advice and be irresponsible. I don't mean to sound rude but you aren't going to get the affirmation you're seeking unless you breed the right way. Learn and study all you can before even attempting the journey. People are passioate about their babies and the breed and only try to offer advice in the best interest of the dog and it's health. It's up to you to receive it or ignore it. I am glad you jointed YT and hope that you do stay as there is lots of valuable information here. There are many who are willing to help you, but please get started the right way. :)

AMD 06-20-2010 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3169662)
I have loved every moment spent with her and I would love to breed her. I can think of anhing better then bringing more joys into the world.I would like to use this site as another source or information, obviously not my only source.


Sasha in this same thread you posted that you would love to breed her, and that you have already bred her.

Which is it?

You seem to be making it up as you go along. Disingenuous at the minimum .

You have got lots of advice whatever the "truth" of the situation is.

I am done with this thread - prevaricators are not worth the time of my day,
Gail, the statement you highlighted in red was posted by Magerita, not sashazx75...if I am not mistaken. :)

Brooklynn 06-20-2010 06:44 PM
WOW I sure miss alot when I'm gone to a dog show....

What I see is this......for those of us that are passionate and love this breed probably more than our own life is to say it's ok for one to do what one wants with their dog...well I for one will always be an advocate for this breed and if you don't like what others or I have to say or think we're rude then just put me and the others on ignore BUT when you do, it's not us or our dogs that lose valuable information and or advice it's you and your yorkies that will suffer. These are living and breathing creatures that need to be put first just like our human kids and if one thinks harm is coming their way then by goodness expect a mother to protect their young! I, for one, will protect this breed with passion and heart and if you don't like what advice is given then move on. I'm tired of playing nice like some want us to do...I will continue to say exactly what I think and take it or leave it PERIOD!!!

Donna

gemy 06-20-2010 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMD (Post 3170049)
Gail, the statement you highlighted in red was posted by Magerita, not sashazx75...if I am not mistaken. :)
Oh dear thanks for pointing this out to me.

Sasha my apologies on the misquote.

Rhetts_mama 06-21-2010 03:54 PM
Is it just me, or does it seem that there has been an up tick in the number of people coming on here and their first post is a question about breeding? Does no one buy or rescue a dog just to be a pet anymore?

BamaFan121s 06-21-2010 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3171243)
Is it just me, or does it seem that there has been an up tick in the number of people coming on here and their first post is a question about breeding? Does no one buy or rescue a dog just to be a pet anymore?
No, it's not just you. Then again, there seems to be an overall "weirdness" hanging over YT for a week or so now. Must be that darn moon again...:rolleyes:

maggiesmom_2007 06-21-2010 03:58 PM
Not sure anymore.


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