BBC Documentary against inbreeding
 

Did anyone see this documentary from the BBC on pedigree dogs suffering health problems because looks are more important than health when it comes to standards of the breed and winning dog shows? If you did what do you think? There is a lively discussion in the General Forum board over it. I thought is would be interesting to see what breeders thought of it and the question is raises - should inbreeding be phased out of dog breeding? The documentary contents that one reason pedigree dogs are suffering from genetic diseases because of years of inbreeding. Some examples in the film are spaniels with brains too big for their heads, pugs with breathing problems, bulldogs that can't mate or whelp pups unassisted.

Anyway here is a link to the BBC news site that has a snippet online of the film. BBC NEWS | UK | Pedigree dogs plagued by disease

I've seen it and read it and unforntuately it's my opinion that it only picks out the people that do not do it for the breed itself and only for the wins...just like those that breed for the all mighty dollar. There is is bad people in every aspect of breeding even in the sport of purebred dogs.
I personally do not inbreed and never will at this point.
I wonder if this documentary is somehow sponsored but those that run puppymills to try and get the heat off them and back onto the adovcates of reputable breeders and pointing out something everyone should know that not every purebred dog is bred correctly. SIGH!

There's another thread on the documentary. Interesting.

Just a thought, as breeders we have control over our actions to do what is right by a breed. Knowing inbreeding can bring out the best in a breed and the worst.

But, think about it, undomesticated animals in the wild do not selectively breed amongst themselves, only picking distant relatives to mate with........their breeding instincts are only to breed.

I've only watched part of the film so will only comment generally. The problems I've seen discussed are not so much a result of in-breeding but one of a standard among some breeds that is detrimental to the dog's health. I think it's good that standards are being reviewed but but broad statements against breeding practices aren't helpful and won't fix the problems.

For instance, I don't know of any major health issues with the Yorkshire Terrier that are attributable to the breed standard. They are a toy breed and are more delicate than a more robust dog but i wouldn't call that a health issue that merits a change in standard.

It's painting with far too large a brush to call for changes in breeders' individual breeding practices. In-breeding, line-breeding and out-crossing are all just tools that a breeder may use. The results will vary depending on the knowledge of the breeder but the practice of these methods is neither good nor bad in and of itself.

As an example, the seeing eye dogs of Morristown, NJ are one of the most in-bred groups of dogs with a high breeding co-efficient yet they are one of the healthiest groups of dogs anywhere. This is due to rigorous health testing and intelligent selection of breeding stock.

As I mentioned earlier, I have no issue with reviewing breed standards as they pertain to the health of a breed. However, the problem must be correctly identified before practical solutions can be found.

I don't think the videos intent was to sicredit the entire group of show breedwers. I believe the intent was to inform the public of what is going on with some breeds. And how the breed standards are held eventhough they know that these dogs are passing on these genes.

Hopefully the publicity will put enough pressure lon them to change the standards. I can't not even imagine what these people are thinking to argue that this is not a problem.

There seems to be few issues here. One is adhering to standards that are detrimental to the breed. Two, the pros and cons of in and line breeding. Third should sick dogs allowed to be shown.

The first has got to be a no-brainer, any standard that proves to be detrimental to the health of the breed should be revised.

Second, in and line breeding. Although my first reaction was a resounding NO, after reading some of the comments I've become just a bit more open. Even in humans, different cultures have different definitions to rules regarding who can marry and mate with who. In some cultures marriages to relatives is the norm, especially cousins. I do not know if they are more or less healthier than we are. Again speaking personally, I would rather err on the side of safely and would rather have a dog with little to no inbreeding.

I think that dogs with genetic problems should not be bred and I do not care what they win! The problem with showing this group of dogs is IF they win there will be a great interest in breeding them. The leads to the third question raised. Should the health of the dog be a criteria for entrance into a show, along with breed standard appearance?

Inbredding
 

Hello,
About the inbreeding topic, the BBC have some good points, here are some articles I wrote about the topic, feel free to comment:

Using inbreeding for dogs breeding

Usage of outcross when breeding dogs

How to compute an inbreeding coefficient

Hello,
Tha BBC documentary have good points about inbreeding. Here are a few pages I wrote on the subject which go a little bit further:

Using inbreeding for dogs breeding

Usage of outcross when breeding dogs

How to compute an inbreeding coefficient

Thanks for the links. This documentary was of great interest in Europe, although it does bring to light the importance of breed clubs to protect each individual breed and it's standard.

Hi, yes this was shown on UK TV along time ago and the reason why Crufts had such a bad time some years ago, with sponsorship. There is a report about it on this link: http://breedinginquiry.files.wordpre...iry-120110.pdf

There was an independant Inquiry requested by Sir Patrick Bateson, the UK it is hoped are now working with the UKKC (United Kingdom Kennel Club) and other organisations like AHT (Animal Health Trust) to advise breeders and change breeding practices that were once thought to be acceptable.

Link here for Sir Patrick Bateson prof at Cambridge Uni:
Zoology: Bateson

The laws on breeding are changing in the UK, Puppy Mill Farmers will be monitored and closed down! and not a day too soon.........................:mad:

:thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbup:There are good and bad breeders every where as you correctly note, we are having big changes in the UK on breeding restrictions, but it will not stop those who are determined to breed only for profit and not for the health and well being of the dog. Here is an interesting link again from Cambridge University on the YT: Unexpected Error
and another for our UKKC, which lists health information on the YT in the UK: The Kennel Club.

Thank you for posting the links that you have. I do have a question though when I went to the UK link and under health information on the Yorkie, I came up with no current Screening or DNA. I'm not sure is Liver Shunt, Luxating Patella not a relevant problem in the UK, vs a vs Yorkshire Terriers? Do breeders not BAT test their breeding stock?

The other report is very dense or at least long at 60 odd pages and I'm still working through it.

Gail,

I also find it interesting that in European counties they don't have some of the stringent laws imposed on breeders as they do in the U.S. & Canada on age limitation for puppy sales. No minimum requirements on breeder's responsibilities.

It is also my understanding that a breeder in Europe also has no control such as limited registration. And they have what is kinown as stud auctions. To me if you don't have minimum guidelines, how can you even begin to have control health issues.

We in the US have established the CHIC Foundation. Yorkies will now have to undergo tests before a top dog can obtain top titles.

Mary is this new rule found on the YTCA website, I went to CHIC and as yet they don't have the test recommendations up. I haven't sent in Razz's info to CHIC yet. I still need CERF done too.

Yep! Very new or at the very least has been the great topic of dicussion. However, some of the top awards are YTCA related....

Awh okay, would you keep me updated so that I am in sync with what the YTCA recommends. Currently I've scheduled OVC knees and hips, BATS have been done, considering heart and thyroid. I'm still holding out for a CERF clinic, but if I don't find one soon, I'll eat the exorbitant cost for the specialist here. I believe that OVC is also recognized on CHIC at least it is for our BRT's, if this is different to your knowledge please let me know as I can request OFA as well as OVC at the same time.

Maybe you don't know OVC it is our database here in Canada Ontario Veterinary College.

Hi, yes the report is very long.....but it is I believe a very relevant report with regards to UK practices and it is hoped that the findings will be implemented by our gouvernment within the next 12 months (in part anyways)or at least breed clubs will seriously take on board the findings and act on them (it is after all for the benefit of their dogs).... there is no screening that is mandatory for LS or LP in the YT breed in the UK under the UKKC. There is the AHT, who carry out all these tests if a breeder wishes, and the UKKC use the AHT lab testing centre for all their DNA tests and health screening. It would seem that as you say the UKKC have no probs with LS or LP as having been shown up in their findings, tests etc. but it could also be said that their info may not be complete? I'm unsure of where the UKKC get their info from, except from the breed clubs? vetinary organisations who hold various trials etc...... and collect whatever relevant data is required to compose these reports and figures of breed health issues......

I can only reply what my vet has told me, in 35 years in practise the YT does not have LS or LP as being prevelant within the breed in the UK.:aimeeyork
He did give me quite a list though of dogs that did and the Cavalier was one, and that was the breed I believe that was reported in the BBC doc as suffering from too larger brain in a too smaller skull.....and being in extreme pain! a result of breeders wanting what they think is the best conformation type for their dogs! ummmm.........................