I am glad to hear that someone else on here knows Ruth and can attest to her honesty and integrity. However, the caution you speak of that is so necessary for Breeder's to take, is also true for buyers. The door swings both ways. Every customer must take vital precautions before spending many dollars on such a long commitment. The members here were not attacking Ruth in any way. For all we know, she could be one of the best breeders around. We were simply advising the OP to be cautious. Too many of us have unfortunately been caught up in some form of scan. I know I have.
But again, thank you for your message. I am glad that you have a wonderful furbaby!

Won't be in Houston this year, would you believe I'm expecting 2 litters then. Am I crazy or what, but you can't outsmart mother nature. I will be at the Dallas Specialty in September.

No one is saying that she's a backyard breeder, and I understand lots of you do not like the HSUS. However, they are one of the few organizations that are cracking down on puppy millers without wanting to harm the small home breeder. I'm not even suggesting her dogs aren't wonderful. I'm saying that a caring breeder would never allow one of her offspring to go into someone's hands, who she wouldn't allow in the house. She needs to get to know her buyers, and if she isn't comfortable, having them in her home, she shouldn't sell to them. Would you sell a pup to someone you wouldn't have in your home? This makes no sense to me.


Wouldn't a commercial breeder use this same excuse? How is the puppy buyer to know the difference?

And some of the best breeders that aren't listed.

:thumbup::thumbup:

That is right. Some members do not want to be listed and some peope are not members yet, even though they follow their rules. Best is word of moith recommendations.

P.S. I got to know Ruth since my dogs showed in TX.

home visits
 

Allow me to elaborate. Too many breeders have been robbed after buyers came to their home and then waited for them to leave. Too many breeders have been horribly beaten up and robbed. Too many breeders have been victimized by some AR fanatic that wants to end all breeding and turned them in on bogus animal charges. I clearly stated that after I am totally comfortable with someone, I will allow them to come to my home. I do not have any husband or big burly male to protect me and in any event that would not protect my dogs if I have to leave home to go to the grocery.
In any given year I may have one litter. The biggest year I have ever had was two puppies for sale and I do not even have anything for sure at this time and told the person that.
I only breed hoping for that one magic dog that will set the world on fire. This is a common goal among those of us that show. If I do not sell a puppy, it is of no concern to me as I am careful to keep my numbers small and any puppy born here is always loved and welcome here. The few people that have gotten a puppy from me are extended family and I love the updates on the puppies as they mature. I am only willing to sell to someone that I feel will provide at least as good a home as I do. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if I am not the right breeder for any particular person that is fine with me as well. I urge any puppy buyer to only buy from a breeder that they like and feel comfortable with and that will be there for them always.
Ruth

I'm very sorry if I offended you, I wouldn't allow just anyone in my home either, but this is a huge red flag, if a breeder doesn't allow it. I was responding to this post. She didn't add that eventually she would be allowed to see your house/kennels.


She asked for a substitution, for a kennel visit and I don't believe there is any substitution. I'm just so happy to read someone is really concerned about how these dogs are being raised, and willing to go to much more trouble than the average buyer, she sounds like she would be an excellent pet owner.


I want to add, that I have read of many accounts where buyers were scammed when they met at neutral places, such a mall or restaurant.

So, if one doesn't want to abide by our criteria so be it. A bit of a hardline attitude but, since we aren't about selling puppies.

I hope some of you breeders rethink your position on this, you are making it so easy for large commercial facilities and puppy mills to mislead the public, and say, "You can't visit the premises because we aren't in the business of "selling puppies". Furthermore, how many times have you breeders been mislead by other breeders? It takes many different people working together to end the puppy mill situation, and I'm so disappointed when I hear someone making it that much harder for the average consumer to get involved. I don't care if someone shows or is a member of the YTCA. Before they hand over a dog, they should trust the person enough to allow them into their home. No exceptions. While I consider myself an advocate of good breeding practices, first and foremost, I consider myself an advocate for the dogs, how they are being bred, and what kind of homes they are going to.

:thumbup:


I have been overly careful in the last few years. Just too many crack pots out there. I usually let people see my dogs only on the front porch now. I do not want, basically, strangers snooping in my house. The last people brought their children and when I invited them inside, the "children" ran willy nilly through my house and started jumping on my furniture. They got my dogs in such an up-roar that I told them to leave. Then you sit there afraid that they may call animal control on you. That happened to me once also. I had someone turn me in for animal cruelty because I wouldnt GIVE him a puppy. I invited the sheriff in and they looked all around my house and were very happy and found nothing wrong. You just dont know who is an animal rights nut or a thief. Two years ago a breeder/exhibitor showed a litter of Bulldogs to some people. They waited behind her house until she left to go to the store and stole her puppies. I try to get a "feel" for people when they call and I am very lucky that most have been wonderful people.
But I do understand the concerns of the OP and am glad to see they are doing their homework instead of buying the first puppy they see.

I'm not sure what Ruth's criteria is, however, I stated mine. But, as she stated and most breeder/exhibitors goals are to breed that next yorkie that will set the world on fire, not to breed to sell puppies. Selling is not our goal. Most of us have a waiting list for those puppies that don't have that extra quality we're looking for. Most of us don't advertise and our potential new families come to us by repeat buyers and word of mouth. So, the trust has been established and families have already been approved way before a breeding is completed.
I don't just allow anyone into my home without knowing their full intentions. There are multiple phone calls, e-mails exchanged, etc. And not before my pups are 8 weeks of age. My potential families have to meet all my qualifications, as I theirs.

With all the legislation that is being imposed most of us breeder exhibitors will not have the option of breeding much longer. The only breeders that will remain are the BYBers, Puppy Mills, Brokers and Pet stores. They're the only ones that will be able to pay the astronomical fees that will be imposed. And yes, HSUS and PETA are behind the new legislation that is in Sacramento that will do away with Breeder/Exhibitors in CAlifornia. And what happens in California goes the way of the rest of the country

"selling puppies"
 

"Selling puppies" is by far my least favorite task as a breeder. BUT I have come to realize that in order for me to continue to breed I MUST sell a puppy here and there. As Mary stated.....it is our rules harsh as they must seem to the uneducated. I no longer allow anyone to enter my home. I have a very nice set up outside on my deck with lots of nice furniture for the comfort of my "guests". Yes I consider visitors to be guests. If one is invited to be my guest then you have passed many tests before we ever get to the point that you are allowed to visit my residence. Making it easy for commerical facilities? Well so be it. My safety and the safety of my Yorkies comes first. I am sorry that so many cannot see the reasons for caution. If you desire a well bred puppy then one should find a breeder and get to KNOW that breeder. These interactions between buyer and breeder should be kept private at all costs. I feel this thread was not necessary. Yes it is buyer beware but bringing complaints to a public forum should not ever happen after one or two emails with a breeder. As long as this crap happens why would you expect us the change and open our doors to the public. A very good breeder has been raked over the coals today without the original poster ever making any attempt to "get to know her". It is a shame.

For the record I am known in the Yorkie world as one of the hardest breeders to get a puppy from...yet I have many many many happy puppy buyers....and many that have come back for second and third Yorkies. I guess I must be doing something right.

Now I understand and I dont blame you one bit..Please take care:):)

[QUOTE=Happyjack;2679364For the record I am known in the Yorkie world as one of the hardest breeders to get a puppy from...yet I have many many many happy puppy buyers....and many that have come back for second and third Yorkies. I guess I must be doing something right.[/QUOTE]

You too? My vet will often refer me to people that are wanting a yorkie and he always tells them, "You'll sooner find a cure for AIDS than get a puppy from her. She's tough, but if you pass her tests, you'll get a quality yorkie"

hahahaha.....yes vet says that also. He tells puppy inquiries....if you pass her tests get on the list no matter how long it takes! LOL I love my vet. He also knows that every puppy I place will be spayed/neutered before leaving me.

You know, I looked at Ruth's website and even signed her guest book. i did not see these RED FLAGS people talk about. i see people on here every day hollering red flag, red flag when they don't have a clue as to the why's where's how's when's or anything else that goes into breeding and showing. most of the time it is because one or two people see something that isn't what THEY would like or what THEY would do but it isn't a red flag to those of us that know. I, one hundred ten percent agree with her on not letting people come to my house at least until I have checked them out or have a realtionship. That happened to me once and once was enough for me to change how I feel about it. if that makes me a bad breeder to some of you then so be it. I don't lack for buyers anyway and the people often on these threads aren't looking anyway so why do we all even care. What business is it of anyones except the buyer and the seller. The buyer asked a question, the seller finally came on and explained her position after she was attacked. She shouldn't have to defend herself to anyone. If you are a buyer and see what YOU think is a red flag, then just go on until you find one you like. People's opinions are like you know what and everyone has one. Do your own research and find a breeder you are comfortable with and don't go by what people say. Do what you think is right. in a thread like this, everyone that responds will have a different answer. Just in case any of you google earth me, I have a HUGE black barn on my farm. Doesn't mean I am a commercial breeder and my six little dogs certainly don't stay in the barn. i am just hurt that this happens almost every day.. Seems there is a RED FLAG patrol.

My vet usually calls me himself when he has someone in looking for a yorkie. I guesss he thinks it is an automatic "in" for the buyer. I tell him "sorry" just like I tell the others.

I'm sure there are many different reasons as to "why" people show, and I agree, with you that there should be a higher purpose, in breeding than just to produce pets. There are already lots of pets to be had. However, it's really important to me, that breeders aren't' just in it for the "prize" or "setting the word on fire", but truly care about the breed, and part of this means that they will finds suitable homes for the pups they produce, and have screened the potential pet owners very carefully and would not place a pup with a person that they didn't feel absolutely certain could provide a stable home, and was not a thief or murder. To me, many of you are saying, that your dogs who aren't show potential, are just castoffs, and where they go isn't important. I recommend that people only support the best breeder they can find, and I hope that quality of a breeder caring about where his pups are placed is not overlooked.

No one said that her site had any red flags, the only one who mentioned a red flag was me, and that is because she refused to allow the person to see where the dogs are being kept. Again, what do you mean by attacked? Are you suggesting that I attacked her?

I linked those pictures, not because it looked like a farm, but you cannot rule out commercial facility in a location such as that.

All that you said is true. Many factors go into being a breeder/exhibitor, but first and foremost is a passion for the breed and to improve it.....but, we forget that when we aren't speaking to those that have that same passion, we tend to forget we have to explain everything. But, then to me breeding that yorkie that will set the world on fire has to have everything that is in the standard and more.

Castoffs? Where in the world did this come from? I thought the whole point of the conversation was the "careful" placement of puppies! AND how "we" are so difficult to deal with. Really....if we had "castoffs" then the whole point would be mute. I can assure anyone that ANY puppy bred by me is not a castoff!!!!!

Oops! I missed the part about castoffs. Mmmmm in one breath your saying we're difficult to deal with because of our criteria and the next you stating that our pups are castoffs. You aren't reading what I said. My families are fully investigated and approved of prior to any breeding. And again, unless you've been an exhibitor breeder you don't understand that we are very lucky if we get one show potential out of every 3 litters. And if you knew the tears that are shed everytime a pup is placed, you wouldn't be saying that they're our castoffs. I see my pups on an average of once a month, since I offer free grooming and boarding to my pups, just so I can still see them.

no, the purpose of the thread was asking for opinions of Ruth. Somehow, threads always get sidetracked into the same area you talk about here..

Not sure you're reading my replies either. My point is that if a breeder doesn't trust someone enough to allow them to enter their home, they don't know them well enough, and should not consider selling them a dog yet. Wait till you know someone better, and develop some type of relationship. Only when you are convinced that they have some potential to be a good pet owner, and you feel comfortable with them, would you allow them to see your home.

oops you're right! I forgot.

I don't think my replies have been off topic. I was responding to this.

Please do not get us wrong - we love our babies very much -each and every one. We do not breed often. We care very deeply about our yorkies and spend many hours caring, reseaaching, learning: go to seminars, participate in deep discussions of the breed standard and health issues, asking for others expert evaluations of our dogs, fundraising for other dogs (example: police dogs safety shields and gadgets to keep AC running in police cars for police dogs/dog oxygen masks for our local firefighters, etc...), and give our babies lots of love and attention, not to mention a lot of money for care and testing on our yorkies. If we did not care so much - we would not spend our whole life into our yorkies. Our yorkies deserve it though. I do not know what I would have done when my hubby had his massive heart attack without my yorkies to give me so much love and devotion and gave me areason to get up each morning and continue my schedule during that time.

Hmmmm.. when people try to get directions to my home from one of those sites - it says my home is a mile down the road by this other road and many people turn off on that road and get lost. So they are not always right. I have a barn and a poolhouse too on my property- but my yorkies are in my home.

Last year I had one person come to my house to look at a pup - after research and references and she still ended up visiting a byb (that had a lot of yorkies!!) home just before she came into my home. I would not have know unless I had asked when she got to my home. I made her go back out and take off her shoes too. Then I had to mop my whole floors!! I did not let her hold my pups either and almost made her leave. I was so worried the whole time that she could have brought something into my house and to my yorkies. She should have known better! I thought I had educated her enough to know better. I also take off my shoes and change my clothes even when I come back from my vets and now also discenfect the car mats too. One cannot be so careful! I would die if any of my yorkies got sick. So just a word of warning. I wonder how many buyers go from one person's home to another when looking for a puppy??? :confused:

Not to worry!!!!!!!!!! Some arguements you just can't win and the longer you stay on here the more you will learn to pay attention to and who to put on your ignore list. That is a handy little feature. Sometimes I have to put people on mine for awhile to keep from saying things to them that will get me banned :)

Isn't that what I stated in 2 posts. Phone conversations, e-mails, interviews, lots of screening before they're allowed.