Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 2634035)

I see you have not been on YT very long.. and I must say you are not just talking about this breeder in your post.. for many even show breeders that are finished with a yorkie they have bred find them homes.. so that they can make room to keep babies to show again and keep their lines for many years.. so saying this is not very nice.. ...I am defending all breeders on this.. if they kept them all would that be humane.. Dogs need attention and love.. and hence a breeder finding a home for a dog that does not meet her needs is not cruel.. it is humane.. I would keep every dog I ever produced.. but for the love of the breed I just cannot and not due to space but time to love and care for them all...
There are also people out there myself included some 20 years ago.. did not want to pay huge prices for a yorkie.. and I took in a couple.. one had been a breeding yorkie and did not produce what the breeder wanted..hence I got her.. and I so loved her.. and I can honestly say she got more attention from us then had she just been kept and fed by a breeder that was showing so many dogs she just did not have the time on her hands.. so please do not come here and be so harsh...especially when you do not know the breeder or the situation or just the breeding itself... I am sorry but this really upset me for other breeders including myself...anne

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2634089)

I'll say that I would never breed a girl in the 3 pound range. It's just not safe IMO. I have a wonderful little girl with a divine personality that I bought to breed and so wanted to as she grew to be more beautiful than my expectations. However, by one year old she had only reached 3 pounds and I did (what I consider) the responsible thing and had her spayed.

I suppose breeding tinies can be done but I really don't see the point. Someone used the analogy of hamsters and mice breeding safely. While that's true, they are kept in a cage. They are in no way a companion pet. A dog, IMO, needs to be large enough to have a reasonable chance of making it through life without a simple mis-step being a tragedy.

Right now I have a little girl that is 7 months old and weighs 2 1/2 pounds. She was bred from my 3 pound male and a 5 1/2 pound girl. She is just now getting to the point where I feel safe in allowing her to go to a permanent home. She is so small and I worry about her so much. It's not that she's not healthy, it's the risk of injury.

I guess that's where my problem would be in someone breeding for not just tinies...but ultra-tinies. How could any breeder feel like they could find so many truly qualified homes for such little ones? I would wonder how many really make it to a ripe old age as they should? Good homes for tinies are very hard to find and, for this reason, I think that breeding for them is wrong. It may not be so much as CAN you breed them but SHOULD you?

The OP is only asking the obvious questions. If someone came to the breeders' forum and asked the breeders to check out a site they were considering getting a pup from where someone was breeding too-small girls, it's a no-brainer what the response would be. Or should I say what the response HAS been as just this question has been asked many times before. Typical responses would include words like...'irresponsible', 'unethical', 'greeder', etc. and you would see plenty of these...:thumbdown :mad: :( :eek:

To see this type of breeding program being embraced by some has got to be confusing to newbies and long-time members alike. I am personally distressed by it as this can only lead to stoking the demand for these ultra-tinies. It's something I thought I'd never see here on YorkieTalk (shakes head in disbelief).

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2634089)

I'll say that I would never breed a girl in the 3 pound range. It's just not safe IMO. I have a wonderful little girl with a divine personality that I bought to breed and so wanted to as she grew to be more beautiful than my expectations. However, by one year old she had only reached 3 pounds and I did (what I consider) the responsible thing and had her spayed.

I suppose breeding tinies can be done but I really don't see the point. Someone used the analogy of hamsters and mice breeding safely. While that's true, they are kept in a cage. They are in no way a companion pet. A dog, IMO, needs to be large enough to have a reasonable chance of making it through life without a simple mis-step being a tragedy.

Right now I have a little girl that is 7 months old and weighs 2 1/2 pounds. She was bred from my 3 pound male and a 5 1/2 pound girl. She is just now getting to the point where I feel safe in allowing her to go to a permanent home. She is so small and I worry about her so much. It's not that she's not healthy, it's the risk of injury.

I guess that's where my problem would be in someone breeding for not just tinies...but ultra-tinies. How could any breeder feel like they could find so many truly qualified homes for such little ones? I would wonder how many really make it to a ripe old age as they should? Good homes for tinies are very hard to find and, for this reason, I think that breeding for them is wrong. It may not be so much as CAN you breed them but SHOULD you?

The OP is only asking the obvious questions. If someone came to the breeders' forum and asked the breeders to check out a site they were considering getting a pup from where someone was breeding too-small girls, it's a no-brainer what the response would be. Or should I say what the response HAS been as just this question has been asked many times before. Typical responses would include words like...'irresponsible', 'unethical', 'greeder', etc. and you would see plenty of these...:thumbdown :mad: :( :eek:

To see this type of breeding program being embraced by some has got to be confusing to newbies and long-time members alike. I am personally distressed by it as this can only lead to stoking the demand for these ultra-tinies. It's something I thought I'd never see here on YorkieTalk (shakes head in disbelief).

Originally Posted by nanahas3 (Post 2633722)

I am starting this new thread to keep names out because that seems to cause lots of angry responses on here. My question is....is it or is it not safe to breed 3 lb girls. I have been reading and reading on all parts of YT for months now and everyone says it is not safe and my vet has told me that they absolutely should not be bred under 4 lbs and preferably bigger. That seems to be the popular opinion here. But I have also seen a few post where a breeder sells puppies from 3 lb females and when asked about the practice everyone jumps to their defense. This is confusing to people like me who are not breeders because when we ask about what kind of breeders to look for the first thing we are told here is dont buy from breeders who do this or who advertise "teacup" yorkies which these breeders I am speaking of do. My other question is why the double standards is it just because these breeders say they have been breeding for 20 years or more? If that is the case the "puppy mill" I unfortunately uneducatedly bought Laddy from would be called legit because she said the same thing to me. Also when I asked these questions I was called rude and a trouble maker. I am neither I am just a new to being owned by a yorkie and want to learn all aspects of it. I don't know about others who have been treated like this for asking questions but it really makes me feel like not coming back to YT :(

Originally Posted by oopsmyhalofello (Post 2634205)

ct

Here you can read and learn stuff, but really what it all comes down to is using the knowledge that you obtain from many sources and then really annalyzing it all, studying up on the genectic of the breed and just breeding dogs in general. Speaking with other breeders who have a program you feel comfortable with and coming up with what you feel is the right way to do things. Experience will then probably change your thoughts on some things, heart break may change your thoughts on others... All in all if you really strive to be a wonderful reputable breeder of the Yorkshire terrier doing it for the right reasons you will be looking into a lot move then just a message board for information.

I do totally understand where your coming from with your post, I actually thought the same thing myself.

Originally Posted by rsmith0803 (Post 2634161)

I agree with ya, I just do my studying and also look on here for advise. If she wasn't a member that apparently everyone likes, like lets say someone was just posting about a breeder they had experience with. I am sure not as many people would agree with her practices.

And another thing, I PERSONALLY am just against people who have multiple pups and are just breeders. I have just loved mine to much to give away. Oh well, like I said from the get go, I have an opinion.

Oh and I am pretty outspoken, I realize this is the internet but I would probably say the same things to the neighbor next door, I'm not shy!

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 2634251)

Just to let you know.. I do NOT know this breeder.. have never bought a yorkie from her.. I am speaking about a breeder in general..

Critisim is
The Disapproval of people, not for having faults
But for having faults that are different from their own..

This was posted at a teen town for teenagers on a military base where the kids went to play cards and have dances and had an adult with them at all times.. it was meant for teenagers to learn from this..anne

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups (Post 2633849)

Originally Posted by rsmith0803 (Post 2634258)

As I sit at this computer I get more and more angry! I have read here on several occassions on preserving the yorkie standard and how everyone here was so against breeders breeding for tinies. I maybe a newbie here but I am not new to the yorkie world!

It seems awfully hypocritical that her practices are ok since she is a member here. I never said she didn't take care of her pups, actually I looked at her site at some pics and they are very cute pups. I just have a problem with breeding for tinies and giving a mama away cuz she can't be a money maker!

I don't need to be told what criticism is, my children have a dictionary and I am well past the age of having to look up that word!

This is my last post, I will find somewhere else to discuss my love of yorkies!

I guess I am just not worthy of this company any longer!
:notworthy

Originally Posted by sillyjacki (Post 2634110)

Not to get into the specifics of posters... My breeder DOES like to breed for smaller yorkies. Her target is a 3-4 pound Yorkie. She refuses to breed a female that is smaller than 5 lbs. She only breeds them with males that are smaller, since, obviously, if they take after their dad, and he's larger, it can cause problems for mama!

I had to explain that to a girl in my apt building who has a 3lb female and is looking for a mate. I tried to explain to her that it would be very dangerous, especially for a new breeder with no experience and no support... I mean, I wouldn't breed a dog without having someone like a mentor to help me through it AS WELL as my vet of choice.... Anyway, all that aside...

That's what my breeder says. Even though she tries for small ones, she definitely uses 5-6 lb females and hopes for the best... She tries to breed for personality after that. So size (male that will be a good match) and then she tries to "breed out" things like timidity, or stubbornness (hey, as much as you can! haha). At least, that's what I could tell, and I've spent a lot of time with her. :)

Also, don't leave! Even though I've just come back from a long hiatus, I can say that everyone here is here for the same reason- we love our pups... And the internet is the internet! Sometimes we say things on a keyboard that we'd never say face to face. You gotta check yourself when you're being rude and hope others do the same. :)

Originally Posted by rsmith0803 (Post 2634258)

As I sit at this computer I get more and more angry! I have read here on several occassions on preserving the yorkie standard and how everyone here was so against breeders breeding for tinies. I maybe a newbie here but I am not new to the yorkie world!

It seems awfully hypocritical that her practices are ok since she is a member here. I never said she didn't take care of her pups, actually I looked at her site at some pics and they are very cute pups. I just have a problem with breeding for tinies and giving a mama away cuz she can't be a money maker!

I don't need to be told what criticism is, my children have a dictionary and I am well past the age of having to look up that word!

This is my last post, I will find somewhere else to discuss my love of yorkies!

I guess I am just not worthy of this company any longer!
:notworthy

Originally Posted by rsmith0803 (Post 2634258)

As I sit at this computer I get more and more angry! I have read here on several occassions on preserving the yorkie standard and how everyone here was so against breeders breeding for tinies. I maybe a newbie here but I am not new to the yorkie world!

It seems awfully hypocritical that her practices are ok since she is a member here. I never said she didn't take care of her pups, actually I looked at her site at some pics and they are very cute pups. I just have a problem with breeding for tinies and giving a mama away cuz she can't be a money maker!
I don't need to be told what criticism is, my children have a dictionary and I am well past the age of having to look up that word!

This is my last post, I will find somewhere else to discuss my love of yorkies!

I guess I am just not worthy of this company any longer!
:notworthy

Originally Posted by tiggerr36792 (Post 2634280)

I feel the need to correct something here that as you can see I placed in Bold type:
We breeders don't give away our babies cause they aren't as you put it moneymakers. We give them loving homes because if we kept them all we would be Hoarders and not breeders. As much as we would like to keep them all after its time to retire them it just isnt possible to keep them all. We would end up with alot of dogs that arent getting the full attention and love they deserve. I dont see why you put this down as a negative when its been done for many years and will continue to be done for many more years by very reputable breeders.

As far as you saying ypour leaving I hope you wont do that. YT is a discussion forum and thats exactally what adults do, we all can get along even if we have very different opinions from each other.

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2634389)

I agree with everything you said. People seem to think we breeders just "throw' away our retired girls. It hurts me worse to place a female that has had the run of my house, slept in my bed each night and is a member of the family so to speak, than it does when I sell her litter. By the time the baby puppies are ready to go, I am ready for them to leave. Worn out from caring for them but it breaks my heart in two when my mama's are retired and placed. I usually cry and grieve for days. But in the three that I have rehomed so rar, they are all in nice homes and living like little princesses. I think Natalie is a wonderful breeder even tho I personally wouldn't breed a tiny, tiny girl. I have always wanted one of her babies but could never afford one.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2634089)

I'll say that I would never breed a girl in the 3 pound range. It's just not safe IMO. I have a wonderful little girl with a divine personality that I bought to breed and so wanted to as she grew to be more beautiful than my expectations. However, by one year old she had only reached 3 pounds and I did (what I consider) the responsible thing and had her spayed.

I suppose breeding tinies can be done but I really don't see the point. Someone used the analogy of hamsters and mice breeding safely. While that's true, they are kept in a cage. They are in no way a companion pet. A dog, IMO, needs to be large enough to have a reasonable chance of making it through life without a simple mis-step being a tragedy.

Right now I have a little girl that is 7 months old and weighs 2 1/2 pounds. She was bred from my 3 pound male and a 5 1/2 pound girl. She is just now getting to the point where I feel safe in allowing her to go to a permanent home. She is so small and I worry about her so much. It's not that she's not healthy, it's the risk of injury.

I guess that's where my problem would be in someone breeding for not just tinies...but ultra-tinies. How could any breeder feel like they could find so many truly qualified homes for such little ones? I would wonder how many really make it to a ripe old age as they should? Good homes for tinies are very hard to find and, for this reason, I think that breeding for them is wrong. It may not be so much as CAN you breed them but SHOULD you?

The OP is only asking the obvious questions. If someone came to the breeders' forum and asked the breeders to check out a site they were considering getting a pup from where someone was breeding too-small girls, it's a no-brainer what the response would be. Or should I say what the response HAS been as just this question has been asked many times before. Typical responses would include words like...'irresponsible', 'unethical', 'greeder', etc. and you would see plenty of these...:thumbdown :mad: :( :eek:

To see this type of breeding program being embraced by some has got to be confusing to newbies and long-time members alike. I am personally distressed by it as this can only lead to stoking the demand for these ultra-tinies. It's something I thought I'd never see here on YorkieTalk (shakes head in disbelief).

Originally Posted by rsmith0803 (Post 2634258)

It seems awfully hypocritical that her practices are ok since she is a member here.

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2638387)

To answer the question asked by the OP. No, you will find that the most--both on YT and off--do not condone breeding such small females purposely and adhere to the general rule of thumb that 5 pounds is the minimum breeding weight. Please realize that breeding extremely small dogs is NOT something that the majority of members here approve of, regardless to if the person doing it is a YT member or not.



Please understand that not every member here views such practices as "OK." The practices of the breeder in question have been the topic of controversy on more than one occasion. It did not end well, resulted in the suspension of several members and several more members who left YT altogether because of the situation. So you will find that there are many who are reluctant to get invovled and speak out about it.
Not trying to stir the pot, just stating the facts about past events. I can completely understand how a newer member could be thrown for a loop to see something adamately preached against on YT and then see it being condoned.

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2638387)

To answer the question asked by the OP. No, you will find that the most--both on YT and off--do not condone breeding such small females purposely and adhere to the general rule of thumb that 5 pounds is the minimum breeding weight. Please realize that breeding extremely small dogs is NOT something that the majority of members here approve of, regardless to if the person doing it is a YT member or not.

Please understand that not every member here views such practices as "OK." The practices of the breeder in question have been the topic of controversy on more than one occasion. It did not end well, resulted in the suspension of several members and several more members who left YT altogether because of the situation. So you will find that there are many who are reluctant to get invovled and speak out about it.
Not trying to stir the pot, just stating the facts about past events. I can completely understand how a newer member could be thrown for a loop to see something adamately preached against on YT and then see it being condoned.

Originally Posted by oops myhalofello (Post 2644860)

Maybe I should start another post to ask this, but I have thought about the size of the stud dog used for breeding in the past too. I understand the risks involved with complications in breeding a tiny female are entirely different.. but Why is it ok for breeders to use tiny tiny males? They are going to possibly produce tiny tiny puppies that are difficult to find suitable homes for as they need extra care, I never hear anything about the size of the stud though?

Originally Posted by oopsmyhalofello (Post 2644860)

Maybe I should start another post to ask this, but I have thought about the size of the stud dog used for breeding in the past too. I understand the risks involved with complications in breeding a tiny female are entirely different.. but Why is it ok for breeders to use tiny tiny males? They are going to possibly produce tiny tiny puppies that are difficult to find suitable homes for as they need extra care, I never hear anything about the size of the stud though?