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-   -   AKC Online Breeder Records... BE FOREWARNED!!! LONG POST... (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/170075-akc-online-breeder-records-forewarned-long-post.html)

MinMuf1 04-21-2009 11:16 AM

AKC Online Breeder Records... BE FOREWARNED!!! LONG POST...
 
Sorry folks, this one is kinda long. Recently I had the pleasure of placing a litter of four with four wonderful adoptive families. In so doing, I retained AKC registration applications until which time I received written confirmation that the puppy has been spayed/nuetered from a licensed veterinarian. I also maintain all my records online with AKC.org. In so doing, with this last litter, I recently updated my records inputting the names, email addresses, addresses, phone numbers, etc. within the AKC system. And, specifically indicated via selecting this from one of their drop down choices that each puppy was released WITHOUT registration papers. That was just last week...

Well, wouldn't you know it... One of my adoptive families contact me with the following email they received from AKC directly. :mad: It actually contained every bit of information needed to register this puppy online without the registration application!!! The online pin numbers, litter number, dam and sire numbers were also provided within the email and had I not indicated LIMITED within the AKC system prior to locking the registration online, the puppy could just possibly be registered with FULL registration.

I placed a call into AKC to inquire about this and was told "it was apparently an automatically generated email" and "I'd get a call back after further investigation with their IT department." But, felt that a warning needed to put out. So, please BEWARE of this. I will update my post with the findings or resolution to my inquiry from AKC, if any is actually received.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: AKC Online Notifications <reply@akc.org>
Date: Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Subject: Your New AKC Puppy Deserves the Best: Register Today!
To: "EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED FOR POSTING"

You are receiving this email from the AKC because you recently purchased a dog which is eligible for AKC registration.

American Kennel Club
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW AKC PUPPY!
Dear NAME AND EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED FOR POSTING,

We hope that your puppy is embracing his new home and you are enjoying the newest member of your family. By now, you've probably chosen what to feed him, started an exercise schedule, and begun training. But, there is one more important step that you haven't taken. You still need to register your puppy with the American Kennel Club.

Please click on the Register Now button to submit your application online. If you prefer to complete your registration via mail, please send your completed form to: The American Kennel Club P.O. Box 900053, Raleigh, NC 27675-9053.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Register today to receive more than $125* in registration benefits!
Frameable registration certificate with your dog's official name
FREE Introductory Veterinary Office Visit.
COMPLIMENTARY 60-day Trial Pet Healthcare Coverage. Activation Required.
FREE AKC New Puppy Handbook
Reduced Rates for Pet Lost & Found Recovery Service
Eligibility to Participate in Exciting AKC Events
*Savings based on registration package and cost of veterinarian office visit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Missing Your Dog Registration Application?
Contact AKC today at 1-800-252-5545, PIN NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING. Please be prepared to provide the information below to the representative.

Litter Number: NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING Breeder Name: NAME DELETED FOR POSTING
Dam Name and Number: NAME AND NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING
Sire Name and Number: NAME AND NUMBER DELTETED FOR POSTING

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have Questions About Registering Your Dog?
If you have questions about dog registration or need assistance registering your puppy, email us at dogregonline@akc.org.

This email was sent to you as a valued customer of the American Kennel Club.
Please read AKC's Privacy Statement.

Find answers to commonly asked questions.

Click here to unsubscribe.

Our website address is: American Kennel Club - akc.org

Our mailing address is:
American Kennel Club
8051 Arco Corporate Drive
Raleigh, NC 27617
919-233-9767

yorkiekist 04-21-2009 11:54 AM

Wow!! That seems pretty scary!! Is AkC hard up for $$$? And to register a puppy without the breeders signature?? I can see alot of fraud coming out of this. At least you put limited on your AKC site!!

blueskies 04-21-2009 12:30 PM

How terrible! They have no place trying to get your puppies registered without your approval!!! I would be livid!! Thank goodness your puppy buyer was honest and contacted you first. I have never used the online records on their website, and now I certainly won't in the future either! Did that email contain the pin number to use for full registration as well?? :eek:

blueskies 04-21-2009 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2588149)
Wow!! That seems pretty scary!! Is AkC hard up for $$$? And to register a puppy without the breeders signature?? I can see alot of fraud coming out of this. At least you put limited on your AKC site!!

Technically with these online applications you could do it without a signature. You don't have to send in the original application you got from the breeder, just fill out the information online and enter the pin numbers. It doesn't even send the breeder an email to confirm. I believe that you can call AKC and request the original mail-in applications only so that nobody can register your puppies online (meaning it would HAVE to have your signature). It's a rather strange double standard because they will give you hell and make you wait for 3 months to confirm a transfer application, and only approve it half the time, but they make it so darn easy for anyone dishonest to register these puppies online. Also, on the online applications there is a pin number for full registration. If the breeder just marks over the code it is very easy to hold up to the light and read, thus giving someone dishonest full registration on a puppy that was marked limited, and AKC would probably never know unless the breeder filled out the online record with limited and they happened to notice it was different than what the puppy was actually registered. If I get a batch of online registrations I physically cut out the squares with the full registration codes. It's ridiculous...:rolleyes:

MinMuf1 04-21-2009 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueskies (Post 2588240)
Technically with these online applications you could do it without a signature. You don't have to send in the original application you got from the breeder, just fill out the information online and enter the pin numbers. It doesn't even send the breeder an email to confirm. I believe that you can call AKC and request the original mail-in applications only so that nobody can register your puppies online (meaning it would HAVE to have your signature). It's a rather strange double standard because they will give you hell and make you wait for 3 months to confirm a transfer application, and only approve it half the time, but they make it so darn easy for anyone dishonest to register these puppies online. Also, on the online applications there is a pin number for full registration. If the breeder just marks over the code it is very easy to hold up to the light and read, thus giving someone dishonest full registration on a puppy that was marked limited, and AKC would probably never know unless the breeder filled out the online record with limited and they happened to notice it was different than what the puppy was actually registered. If I get a batch of online registrations I physically cut out the squares with the full registration codes. It's ridiculous...:rolleyes:

This is what I am so infuritated about!!! :mad: I don't release the registration papers on any of my limited puppies until they are spayed/neutered. So, these families didn't have any information on registration online or manually until AKC literally GAVE out the information freely!!! Yes, even the online pin numbers... :thumbdown

fannie 04-21-2009 03:23 PM

I keep all of my records online. (you also have to print out a hard copy and have it in your possession, fyi)

When a puppy leaves my home I go in and fill out the information. Always fill it out completely so you can lock the record and they can't get full registration if you don't want them to.

Nancy1999 04-21-2009 03:32 PM

I don't understand this, don't people need numbers before they can register? Joey's breeder didn't give me that until I showed proof of spaying.

MinMuf1 04-21-2009 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2588556)
I don't understand this, don't people need numbers before they can register? Joey's breeder didn't give me that until I showed proof of spaying.

You're absolutely correct! But, apparently it doesn't matter that the Breeder is withholding that information... AKC is GIVING it to owners freely! All the pertinent information needed was given right at the bottom of the emails as shown below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Missing Your Dog Registration Application?
Contact AKC today at 1-800-252-5545, PIN NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING. Please be prepared to provide the information below to the representative.

Litter Number: NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING Breeder Name: NAME DELETED FOR POSTING
Dam Name and Number: NAME AND NUMBER DELETED FOR POSTING
Sire Name and Number: NAME AND NUMBER DELTETED FOR POSTING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bchgirl 04-21-2009 03:58 PM

Well that stinks and I hope you get it rectified with AKC. In the future wouldn't it be possible to either leave out the email addresses or simply place your own in this box? Just an idea.

Nancy1999 04-21-2009 04:04 PM

Well it seems easy to rectify in that all the breeder has to do is register the litter with limited registration, as you did. I think this is just something that makes it easier for buyers to register the puppies, but breeders have to make sure they are careful when filling out the initial paperwork.

PrestigeousYT 04-21-2009 04:43 PM

Here is some more information on the AKC rules on placing puppies.
I have heard of other people having problems with this too.

About Registration

The American Kennel Club, a not-for-profit organization established in 1884, maintains a purebred dog registry, sanctions dog events, and promotes responsible dog ownership.

As AKC does not breed or sell dogs, it cannot guarantee the quality or health of dogs in its registry. AKC reserves the right to refuse or to rescind the registration of any dog for cause.

The owners of registered dogs have access to numerous educational and informational services provided by AKC, as well as to various competitive events. The rules and regulations for each type of event should be referenced to determine specific eligibility and performance requirements.

Papers and Identification

When you buy a dog represented as AKC registrable, you should receive an AKC Dog Registration Application form properly filled out by the seller. When you complete your portion and submit it with the proper fee, this form will enable you to register the dog. When the application has been processed, you will receive an AKC Registration Certificate.

Under AKC Rules, any person who sells dogs represented as AKC registrable, must maintain records that make it possible to give full identifying information with every dog delivered even though AKC "papers" are not yet available. Do not accept a promise of later identification.

The Rules and Regulations of the American Kennel Club stipulate that whenever someone sells or delivers a dog registrable with AKC, the dog must be identified by providing the buyer with a properly completed AKC Dog Registration Application for a dog not yet individually registered or a properly completed AKC Registration Certificate for a registered dog. If neither of these is available, the person delivering or shipping the dog must furnish the person acquiring the dog with a bill of sale or written statement, signed by the seller, giving all of the identifying information listed below.

For a Dog Not Yet Individually Registered
Breed
Sex and color and markings
Date of birth
Litter number (when available)
Names and numbers of sire and dam
Name of breeder
Date sold or delivered
For a Registered Dog
Breed
Registered name
Registration number
Date sold or delivered

This identifying information must be supplied with the dog even though AKC papers are not yet available, and even to a person who takes the dog only for resale as an agent or on consignment, and the same information must be passed on by him when he disposes of it. When you do receive the properly completed AKC registration papers, verify the papers against your bill of sale to ensure that all the information is correct. Please be advised that a dog will not be registered or transferred without the proper AKC registration papers.
If you are buying a dog that is supposed to be registrable with the AKC you should realize it is your responsibility to obtain complete identification of the dog or you should not buy the dog. Failure to get AKC "registration papers" causes more grief for buyers of purebred registrable dogs than any other problem except sickness. It has long been common practice to explain the inability saying "AKC hasn't sent the papers yet." The essence of this and similar excuses is that because the American Kennel Club is at fault, papers are not available. The fact is that the processing of any AKC registration item takes approximately three weeks. If a breeder is doing his paperwork in a regular, careful manner, there is ample time to obtain the necessary "papers" from AKC prior to the sale of any puppy. When "papers" are not available at the time of delivery, it is a red-flag warning sign to exercise extreme caution.

AKC Registration and Quality

There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" guarantee the quality of a dog. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog. Quality in the sense of "show quality" is determined by many factors including the dog's health, physical condition, ability to move and appearance. Breeders breeding show stock are trying to produce animals that closely resemble the description of perfection described in the breed standard. Many people breed their dogs with no concern for the qualitative demands of the breed standard. When this occurs repeatedly over several generations, the animals, while still purebred, can be of extremely low quality. Before buying a dog, you should investigate the dog's parentage (including titles, DNA and pedigree information), the breeder's breeding practices, the breed standard, and the genetic tests recommended by the Parent Club for the breed. For more information, go to About Buying a Dog and visit the Parent Club website.

How AKC Registration Functions

The American Kennel Club registration system can be described as a cycle, which is repeated every generation. A convenient starting point is the registration of a litter. In order for a litter to be eligible for registration, the sire (Father/stud dog) and the dam (Mother/bitch) must be individually AKC registered and the litter must be whelped in the United States. Registration of the litter must be completed before any of the pups from the litter can be individually registered with AKC. Application to register a litter must be submitted on a Litter Registration Application form. This form, as well as others mentioned here, is available upon request. The owners of the sire and dam should complete and sign the appropriate portions of the application and submit it to AKC with the required fee.

PrestigeousYT 04-21-2009 04:44 PM

This is on the AKC website

MinMuf1 04-21-2009 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeousYT (Post 2588676)
This is on the AKC website

Well, thanks for the clarity on this... Especially since I couldn't get a direct answer from any one that I spoke with today at AKC. :mad: I will just have to resort to doing what blueskies is doing with her applications, and physically cut out the FULL online pin.

Admin please close this post. I got the answer I needed thanks to PrestigeousYT! :thumbup:

MinMuf1 09-19-2009 01:42 PM

Old BUT Informative!
 
I apologize for resurrecting such an old post. But, I have a new litter that I need to register with AKC and really have never put this whole issue to rest mentally. After a couple of open ended calls with AKC, I finally decided to take a little extra time clicking around on the AKC website. In so doing, I thought you'd like to know that the practice of witholding registration papers via SIGNED CONTRACT IS an acceptable practice by the AKC. This is an excerpt that I found within the AKC Procedures For Registration Matters under "Contracts". Just go to the AKC website and type in RREGS2 within the search field.

A. SPAY/NEUTER CONTRACTS
A written agreement between buyer and seller to the
effect that AKC registration papers will not be furnished
to the buyer until the seller has been furnished
with evidence that the dog has been neutered or
spayed is acceptable under our rules.
If a dog is sold under such conditions, it is important
that the agreement be signed by the buyer before the
dog leaves the seller’s premises.
Many breeders using this type of agreement include
clauses to the effect that the dog must be spayed or
neutered by a certain date (or age).


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