What would you do??
 

One of my pups that I took a deposit on has had a change, she dropped a few ounces in a few days, her attitude and demeanor has changed and just in general I feel something may be up with her. Not something that would show on a vet visit at this point but something that I feel I should watch.

I had originally told the buyers that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks, but because the mother was having nothing to do with them and a few were clearly healthy and eating well on their own I was allowing them to go to homes earlier IF I felt they were ready. Well I emailed the people who had a depost on this pup and stated my concerns and that I was not allowing this particular pup to go to her home just yet, at nine weeks. The middle of last week though this was not showing and I had told the woman she couldhave her this weekend. At any rate I offered them the options of waiting, getting another pup or getting their money back. The husband of the couple called me and at first things were fine, the woman who had seen this pup for a total of possibly 30 minutes, was extremely upset saying it had to be this pup(bear in mind this is a pet quality pup that upon seeing they asked me how I would know which one it was when the time came for them to get it). They started question and analyzing the reasons, my current and previous words, why I hadn't taken her to a doc yet, etc, etc. They wanted not only to pick her up at nine weeks but also an extended health guarantee. The husband and I talked three times yesterday afternoon, though he and I got along well and seemed to understand each other they are still pushing to get the pup early. They have made me feel as though I am taking care of their pup and need to answer to them vs the facts that it is my pup they have a deposit on and I have a responsibility to that pup. After sleeping on this all night(when I was able to sleep) I am thinking I should just give their money back and cancel the sale thereby negating any obligation on either part. Also I will not be interrogated over my actions and the pups health when I have clearly stated I feel something needs watching. I would appreciate opinions on this. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

Once I have had the same situation as you do now . The puppy was a little sick and I felt she wasn't ready to leave . The woman wanted to have her and was very pushy . I decided to give her money back and told her to never come back for a pup .

I would just explain that she needs a little more time with her mother and you. If they are the right people for her, they will understand.

This is one of the reasons I don't take deposits on pups. 10 weeks is also the bare minimum any would leave here and that would only be in a special circumstance. 12 weeks is best, but if I feel a pup needs more time than that, they get more time. There is obviously a lack of understanding on their part as to where your interest lies. The well being of the pup is your first priority. Their wishes are secondary. It doesn't make any sense that they would want to take a pup that you are uncertain about. What is their urgency?
I would return the deposit and tell them they can either wait until you feel the pup is ready to go or get one from somewhere else. I would be hesitant to place the pup with anyone so emotionally unstable that they would get EXTREMELY upset over a possible delay in getting a pup they haven't spent much time with. Your reasons for the delay are sound.

Thank you for your replies! As I said before I was of the opinion that I should negate this sale. Sylvan this has truly helped me learn not to take deposits before the pups are ready to go. This is my first experience and I have definately learning quite a bit from every aspect of it. I welcome other opinions and experiences on this.

Just a bit more food for thought... The reason I keep pups to 12 weeks is not because the mom is still interested in them or they are not eating on their own...it is because studies have shown that pups allowed the extra time to interact with their littermates are much better from a behavior standpoint in future. The extra socialization time negates many anxiety/aggression/interaction problems that show up in pups removed earlier.

People have varying opinions on the deposit question, but I feel strongly that it's just not a great idea. If something changes between the time the deposit is placed, I do not want a pup to go with anyone who may be taking it, just to avoid losing a deposit. My word is enough to hold a pup for you once decided. Also, I allow a one week return with full refund for any reason, just in case the idea of the pup was different from the reality or whatever circumstance comes along. Maybe the other pets in the house just can't adjust or whatever?? It is certainly no big deal to find a better home compared to forcing a pup to be in a situation where it is not wanted.

I think it is wonderful of you to be up front with the perspective buyers on your feelings on this puppy. Don't let them bully you into something you don't feel is right for your little one!!!!! I personally would reconsider the sale and return the deposit, hold the pup until you feel comfortable about the pup leaving and not until.... Your first concern should be with the puppy, not the perspective owners. I have ran into strong personalities before as well, and you are not beholding to anyone, but that puppy..... I think it is best to hold a pup to twelve weeks of age too.

I am very impressed with you all! I would love to have any of your pups. sylvan - I think the one week return policy is awesome!!!!! :bravo:
Gingis mom-It is your pup, I think you should do what you feel is in the best interest of the pup. Don't let them bully you.

Gingis' Mom~ From a legal perspective your rights and responsibilities will depend on the terms of the deposit agreement. Is the agreement regarding the deposit in writing?

If the buyers understood that once they put the deposit down there is a contract for purchase then the puppy IS theirs at that poiht and you are caring for it for them. If the deposit was simply a "prerequisite to the contract" and you made sure they knew that you, as the breeder, still owned the pup and that they may not get it, then you can certainly cancel the agreement at this point.

Deposits are not a bad hing in and of themselves but the "terms" of the deposit and the contract prerquisites need to be spellled out and agreed to so there are no misunderstandings like there seem to be in this instance.

I know that I can fall in love with a puppy instantly and then if I dream about it for several weeks, I fall more deeply in love so I don't think the fact that the buyers only spent 30 minues means they aren't attached to the pup. I am sure they are scared for their "baby" and they want to do what is best.

I hope the puppy gets better nad everything works out for everyone in this matter. Feel free to PM me if you have Qs about my advice here.

I think you should hold on to ALL puppies until you feel they are ready for their new homes. Maybe make this known at the time someone makes a deposit.... "the earliest they will get the puppy is whatever number of weeks or until such time you feel they are ready for their new homes". I am sure most people would understand this.

Who would really want a puppy when it is not eating well...??? There is enough stress in the new home with the crying puppy (missing its mates).

Good luck.

I would return the deposit and keep the pup till you know it healthy. The nerve of some people bullying. When I was a buyer I felt very beholden to the breeder what she said goes.

I feel that you have every right to keep the pup till you feel it's ready to go. The normal age before leaving is 12 weeks. I got Gus at 10 weeks but he had been eatting on his own and was happy and healthy. I don't think you should extend the health guarantee and hand over the pup till you know the pup is completely healthy. I'm sure if they want a happy healthy pup then they would be more understanding.

I do know how it is to fall in love with a pup and not being able to get it. The first yorkie I looked at was my dream baby. Red, baby faced, healthy, and SO darn cute. The lady was just asking WAY too much for her. There was no way I could aford her. But even if I was able to aford her I wouldnt want to bring her home if the breeder thought there might be a problem. If they can't understand that,,,, then by all means,,, give the deposit back. Good luck to you!

Well after waking up very early and posting here, I attempted to go back to sleep. The woman called me early and woke me and wanted to talk. I tried to talk and found myself reiterating what I had said to her husband. Again she trying to tell me they didn't understand why the pup was not taken to the vet. Finally I told her I thought the best thing was for me to return their money. Though not angry she quieted down a bit for a moment but started in again. After a few more minutes of this I told her again that I thought it would be best for all concerned if I just give her her money back. At that point she agreed and all was said and done. Thank you all so much for your help in this.

SoCalYorkieLvr... I posted the previous posting before noticing your post. I had a deposit agreement. The original agreement(not in writing) was that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks of age. I tried to push this up for my purchaser but found it not possible. She had a fit and there was no written contract as to the fact that it was their pup. This has been a great lesson for me and if I were to take a deposit again the terms would certainly be spelled out.

I know this is all said and done now, but I wanted to say that I think one of the reasons they wanted to go ahead and get the puppy right now is because they thought that the puppy should go to the vet NOW. But just incase something was really wrong (after they insisted on getting the puppy) they wanted an extended health guarantee. I don't think so! If they were going to insist against the better judgement of the breeder, they can just take their chances!

No one knows the attitudes and behaviour of that puppy better than the person raising it. It's just like raising your kids. It's no use to yank them up to go to the doctor only to have the doctor tell you they can't find anything wrong. Yet! We went thru a lot of ear infections this way. I knew but it was too early to get them to do anything. You did right, you did good. WTG, Sylvia.

I can see both sides. I had a deposit on a puppy this summer, and I was supposed to pick her up on a Tuesday, and she got sick on friday before and the breeder was very good about calling me and telling me she wanted to hold on to her until it passed. I had seen pictures, she wasn't MINE yet, but when she passed away, I cried like a baby. Some part of me had already claimed that puppy. The breeder offered me my money back or one from the next litter, which is what I'm going to do, but I'm just saying, it is YOUR puppy, but you'd be surprised at how easy it is to be thinking about that little doll being your very own, and it just makes it difficult for both breeder and owner to be.

I told my little one's breeder that I'd wait until she was comfortable, because she was in an area with 24 hour vets etc., and I'm not so I didn't want to take the chance, but - it was sure tempting.

It sounds like they don't understand that you are trying to do what's best for them and the pup.

I only wish they had considered what was best for the pup. As I was shampooing my carpet...(good time to think..lol) I got to thinking about the final conversation. The girl was upset telling me how everyone was waiting for the puppy to come this weekend. Well I do understand that but she did not seem concerned about the pups health. The fact that moving the pup to new surroundings at that point could have worsened things considerably. They never addressed to any real degree that they would accept waiting for me to be more comfortable with her health. They wanted me to rush her up to them so they could take her to their vet. Problem not solved that way. I truly was trying to work with them and the first email I sent I assumed that they would understand and be willing to wait. When I saw how important it was for them to have THAT puppy and in THEIR timing(which btw had changed numerous times) then I became concerned about the pups welfare. I believe they actually thought I wanted her for myself. At any rate everything is said and done. Thank goodness and thank you everyone for their support.

After all is said and done. You did the right thing for your puppy.. I have taken deposits in the past and never had a problem. But I will rethink deposits next time.. :confused:

One more thought. My vet said that even yorkie pups can go home by 8 weeks. I really do think this is an option, but it really depends on the puppy and the circumstances. One pup might be great to go home at 8 weeks, while another might not be able to go until 16 weeks.. I think, it all depends on the puppy. :p

Not to appear rude, but if your vet said it is ok for yorkie pups to leave at 8 weeks, he/she is not very knowledgeable about toy dogs. All toy dogs should stay with mom until they are at leat 12 weeks, and some even longer if they are very tiny. Most vets are not real knowledgeable about toy dogs, I know mine will have people call me for information on yorkies, because as is understandable, Vet's have to know a little bit about all dogs, but usually only know a lot about what ever breed they have owned.

I don't think your being rude, just stating a point that you feel. If you saw my puppies you would realize that my biggest boy was more than capable to go to his new home at 8 weeks. He was very healthy, and very big. He weighed in at 3.75 in his 8th week. He was eating dry puppy food at 5 weeks, had his 1st puppy shots, deworming, and health certificate. He did go home to his new family at 9 weeks and his is adjusting very well. I keep in touch with his new family and he is fine. Now if I had a 2lb puppy I would keep him until I felt he was old enough and/or his was big enough.

This is what I go by, its not a law, just a feeling about my puppies :p

I can't help but feel sorry for you. You seem to be alot like me and worry about others a bit too much. That just makes you a very caring person. You did the right thing. They should have realized that you only had the puppies best interest at heart. If I were the lady I would probable be disapointed but would have totally understand. I wouldn't want to bring home a puppy that was sick. It just was not meant to be.

I know this is all resolved but I just want to give my opinion. I think you made the right decision and I would not allow one of my puppies (if I were a breeder) to leave unless I was 100% happy with their health and confident in the buyer. I pesonally would not argue with a breeder over the dogs health. If a breeder wants to keep her puppy longer due to medical concerns, then I applaud that breeder! Only caring breeders do that. Breeders who are only concerned for $$$ will gladly sell a sick people without a second thought.

I was not allowed to take my Katie home until she was 5 months old because at 5 months she was only 14 ounces. Her breeder was concerned for her overall health. Some people have told me that 5 months is too extreme and that the breeder is paranoid. But ya know what, that breeder has been breeding for over 20 years and has FAR more experience then I do. So who am I to assume that I know better and try to push the issue? No way would I do that. I respected Katie's breeders decision and gladly complied. I was also secure in the knowledge that the breeder was doing all this for the well being of my little girl. So far, Katie has had absolutely no health problems and I'm thankful for that.

Anyway, I think you did the right thing for you and your pup. I really do applaud you! :thumbup: Good luck with your little pup! :p

PS - I think Kim (SoCal) made a good point about the legal terminology in your contract. It's just something good to keep in mind.

I can relate
 

I had something similar to happen to me. The date came when the puppy was to go to his new home. My vet advised me he wasn't ready yet because he was still recovering from glycogen storage problem. I advised the owner to be and boy was I chewed out. I felt bad becuase i know how long they waited for this day. But like you I stuck to my guns, promised the pup when it was better, or another pup i had available. The buyer dedcided not to buy from me because of that. SOOO ..I take this is a learning experience. NEVER offer a puppy or take a deposit (which I didn't even have on on the puppy) until its' ready to walk out the door. The let down is too much for some to take.

Thanks for sharing your story. Just wanted you know that I too have had a similar experience. You did the right thing just as I did. Like anythig else, it wasn't meant to be.

Hugs,
Irene

Bravo
 

good for you !!! you showed what i wish all breeder would show that your first and formost responibility lay with your puppie not the $$$$ most people have no clue how rude ppl can be when they come to your home to see your puppie ive had ppl try to grab puppie roll there eyes at me with my please put on hand sanitiser and walk on the towle that has a water bleach mix on it before entering my home ive had pple hand there 5 year old hyper active child my puppie and ofcorse DROP IT!! when i ask them not too with no hand cleanser and what about the pple who dont call and just show up.. EARLY i was quite young when i started breeding showing Toy aussies and has quite a few Husbands try to bully me oh well were good people let me take him today down talk to me like i have no clue what im talking about ive had men screem in my face when i stated the puppie they want is not correct for them .... thank goodness that the few and the far between

I am just reading this and I know it is resolved..thank goodness. I, like Stacy, NEVER take a deposit on any puppy. I keep a list of interested people BUT I explain to them that just because they are on my list does not mean they will be approved for a puppy from this litter. If they want to go elsewhere for a puppy, I offer to help them. Not one of my babies is shown til it is ready to go to a forever home..that is almost always 12 weeks..I can only think of one baby that was placed earlier and with full reg privileges and that person is a member of this forum.
Deposits to me are a nuisance. If someone does not want a baby, I do not want them to have it. And, it is just too much hassle to take a deposit and then return it or keep it as many persons do. I will take my babies back anytime but the first few days are so important with the new parent. I want my baby back if it is not the perfect fit for the new family. I will return the full amt of the sale during that time.
It just is more trouble than it is worth to me to take deposits or promise certain puppies to certain people. So, I just wait til I know the personality, size and dominance issues with my babies and then start the pla cement interviews. Simplifies things for me..

deposits
 

I take deposits some times..with the understanding I can change my mind if I think there is a problem with the pup..or it needs a longer time with me. If I give them a choice of another pup, waiting or a refund, no one has had a problem with the 3 choices.

[I]I think it is awesome to see so many caring yorkie experts! As the
person waiting for a new baby I would have felt greatful that the puppie's
best interest was being thought of! I hope I can find someone as caring
in my area for our next little one! Kudo's! :)

Thank you Pat and I agree completely. The unfortunate thing is that I gave them three choices... they tried to tell me how to take care of this situation knowning nothing about the pup or how it should act like I did. They wanted me to not only bring her to them so they could have their vet check her but to extend the guarantee. I was in no way willing to allow this pup to leave my home until I was more comfortable with her health... either she got better or worse and had symptoms a vet could diagnose. They apparently did not fully read the email and the woman asked for her money back. That was fine but the next morning the man wrote me a nasty letter and proceeded to verbally abuse me and try to intimidate me. Unfortunately he and I had previously come to an agreement before the wife got involved. This could have all been resolved easily IF they had fully read the email from me and responded with a decision to wait if they so chose.

I guess with some people there is just no making them happy. They seemed to want their way and nothing else mattered.

I'm sorry for the problems that you had. You can't please everyone, you just have to do what you know in your heart is the right thing for you and everyone involved. No matter if all parties like it or not. You are the one that has to live with the consiquences(sp). I like everyone else think that you made the right decision for you and your baby.