Surrogate Breeder?
 

I've have been told several times by Yorkietalk members that by taking on a pregnant female, and allowing her to be bred 2-3 more times, they would then own the dog. I've never seen a thread on this, and wondered if this was common practice? I have a few opinions on the subject, but they aren't really informed opinions, and I was wondering what others thought of the practice? I can see advantages for the breeders of course, it would mean once less producing dog in the kennel to care for, an advantage for the surrogate breeder is a free dog. I'm concerned about some of the disadvantages. Is the owner generally required to provide medical care for the pregnant pup? Do you need some level of expertise to care for a pregnant dog? Does the breeder who does this require the dog be spayed upon change of ownership? How does a "surrogate" breeder know if the dog is being over-bred, should she insist on a time period between breeding? What measures should be insisted upon to insure the safety of the dog? I can imagine some breeders upon learning that the dog needs a caesarean abandoning the whole thing. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.

i contacted a breeder about a year ago and she told me she had several surrogate girls. She said some people call them satelite bitches. I had never heard of such a thing and would not agree to something like that at all. I don't ever want so many gals that I can't take care of them myself. Is this what you are talking about?

Yes, I guess that's what it is. Several people asked my opinion on it, and I can't find any information on this. I was wondering what the drawbacks were? What would you tell someone who was thinking of doing this? By the way, it's not me, I'm not thinking of doing this.

By the way, I just googled the term, "Satellite Bitches", there's actually a song by that name, but I couldn't find anything else. :rolleyes:

I've never heard of surrogate breeders but I do know that some breeders will lease their dogs to show and breed but the bitch or dog never changes ownership unless that is what is agreed upon. It's my understanding that if a breeder leases one it always comes back home. I could be wrong...I'm sure when one leases they stay on as co-owner so they can be able to sign the registration papers and keep tabs on the bitch or dog.
I personally as a breeder wouldn't lease or take on a lease.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

This doesn't have anything to do with showing, and in the cases that I know about, the surrogate isn't planning on continuing breeding once the dog has lived up to it's contractual obligation of producing 3 or so litters. All the offspring and the mother belong to the original breeder until this time, and then ownership is given to the surrogate. So this isn't like a mentor relationship or anything like that.

This is what AKC has on their website about leasing a bitch:
Leasing a Bitch

I personally have never done it and I don't know anyone that does. Nor would I want to do anything like that.

Thank you that is interesting, I'm not sure it would apply in this case because the dogs that they are leasing are newborn puppies. One thing that has bothered me about these arrangements is that they involve a puppy, not a pregnant bitch. The person gets a "free" puppy, but has to agree to 3 or so breedings. I believe they said the dog would be mated in the first year. I just don't know how a breeder could be sure that the puppy is suitable for breeding. I just realized in my first post I wrote it wrong.

I have heard of it...but know no one who has done it.

Personally I would think it's accepting responsibility for someone else's dog...without her being pregnant. My understanding is ownership doesn't change until after whatever number of breedings.

I also wouldn't like MY dog to go live with the breeder for until puppies were weaned either.

I guess if you have to surrogate your bitch out then in just my humble opinion you have too many dogs at home and shouldn't be breeding because again in my opinion it's not being done correctly LOL....plus I guess the reason I've never heard of it is because I'm not a pet breeder but a show breeder :)
I've heard of leasing within the show world but of course I wouldn't do that either :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

The way I "think" the satellite or surogute if you will, works is that the breeder sends a girl off to someone else to raise until breeding time. Then the breeder brings the dog home and breeds her then ssend her back to the other place until time to whelp. The breeder whelps the puppies raises them, sells them and then the bitch goes back and after a few times of this, the person owns the dog.. Something like that. You asked what would I say to someone that asked me about doing this? I would use my big mouth and tell them I think that if they can't care for their girls or they are such a big enterprise they have to do this, then they shouldn't be breeding and it is not someone I would buy a puppy from. I think the person I talked to has about 13 satellite bitches. She couldn't understand why I would object to that. This is not the same thing as leasing a bitch to breed or show. in my opinion and it is just my opinion, this is puppymilling or BYB.

My gut instinct is to tell the person to run from this breeder, I just was wondering if I was overreacting.

I've heard of it and done it along long time ago.
 

it was a kennel {mill} in Maine,the breeder would allow young females or males she liked but didn't have room for {trust me she didn't}that she wanted puppies from. She called it a breeders terms. you'd take her bitch or male,as soon as the female came into heat you'd bring her back to be bred. She'd let you take the female homeyou'd pay for all the care,vet or other wise of this dog til two weeks before she was due,to which you'd bring her back and she'd keep Mom and puppies til the puppies were six weeks old. Inwhich she'd call you to get your dog back. {she'd spay it or demand another litter} the little dog was yours finally after all that time. Males she would have six breedings from and he was neutered and yours. Papers and all. I did not know at all about mills then. It was almost 20 years ago. But I remember how this person showed dobermans,min pins,chihuahuas,toy poodles,german pinchers. And was the local animal control officer to boot. Everyone except the big guys lived 24/7 rabbit cages stacked. I did this for a tiny 2 pound female chi. Kimmy was to have four litters and she was mine. Kimmy died the first litter due to being overbred. She was four. That breeder tried to accuse me of not caring for her. My Vet said otherwise. I had Kimmy for eight months. Durring that time she learned what grass was,what toys were,what other foods were then puppy chow.

OK this is what I was thinking too, and I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

I think it is more common with bigger dogs. I have a friend that shows/breeds GSDs and there is a limit to how many he can physically keep, so he will place a bitch in a home with a contract that keeps her in his ownership and registration and the new "foster" parent for lack of a better term returns the bitch to him for one breeding. He keeps her for that period from breeding to weaning, then at that time the bitch is spayed and ownership changes hands.

In breeding the papillons I have leased bitches for breeding from my mentor. It is a very good way to get a litter from an outstanding bitch and to help enhance your pedigrees. For me it allowed me to produce the 2 bitches that, along with a 3rd bitch I purchased, form the real foundation of our own program. They are half sisters to each other which sets up nice opportunities for line breeding later. I would never have gotten that strong a base if I had had to purchase 3 unrelated bitches. It also allows you to introduce genetic diversity with more options than just outside studs. The key is a very specific contact that spells out exactly what everyone's duties and obligations are during the lease, esp. Related to vet care and the risk of losing a bitch-- meaning in our case a liquidated damages amount agreed upon if I, when leasing the bitch, had her die due to my own negligence. I feel very fortunate to have such a strong relationship with my mentor and now co-breeder for her to have trusted me with her girls to give me the start that she did. She also benefitted more than just financially as on one litter she received a very nice bitch puppy to pay for the lease bred from a marvelous dog-- but I bore the cost of the stud fee, so it worked to her advantage in her program as well.

I would not do a lease with someone I had not had a long term relationship with- even with the best contract...