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-   -   how young is too young to test for liver shunt?? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/139736-how-young-too-young-test-liver-shunt.html)

Ladymom 07-28-2008 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 011011 (Post 2144067)
Then I guess my vet dosent know a thing after 35 years
Actually, most vets don't know that much about liver disease which is why most people end up having to go to a vet school for diagnosis and surgery if necessary.

For example, many vets will recommend an ultrasound which is a waste of money as they are only about 80% effective at diagnosing shunts. A scintigraphy is the accurate way to diagnose a shunt. Many vets have not heard of scintigraphy or even heard of a Protein C test or a bile acids test.

This is not a slam on vets, just a statement of facts. The treatment of liver disease is very specialized. Most vets just don't see that many cases in their practice. Vets are like our primary care doctors who can take care of most ordinary ailments, but refer us to a specialist for a more complicated health problem.

Cookie2 07-28-2008 03:51 PM
I think someone brought up that a Blood Panel requires Less blood than a BAT test. So maybe that is why...
Not sure if it was on another thread.



Genie

011011 07-28-2008 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie2 (Post 2144183)
I think someone brought up that a Blood Panel requires Less blood than a BAT test. So maybe that is why...
Not sure if it was on another thread.



Genie


:thumbup::thumbup: Other things can come up on a panel that may cause some of the symptoms . My vet would do a panel first and go from there.

bjh 07-28-2008 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2144102)
Actually, most vets don't know that much about liver disease which is why most people end up having to go to a vet school for diagnosis and surgery if necessary.

For example, many vets will recommend an ultrasound which is a waste of money as they are only about 80% effective at diagnosing shunts. A scintigraphy is the accurate way to diagnose a shunt. Many vets have not heard of scintigraphy or even heard of a Protein C test or a bile acids test.

This is not a slam on vets, just a statement of facts. The treatment of liver disease is very specialized. Most vets just don't see that many cases in their practice. Vets are like our primary care doctors who can take care of most ordinary ailments, but refer us to a specialist for a more complicated health problem.
I find this to be very true. In our area most vets probably don't even know how to run a BAT test but they do know how run a blood panel and if they suspect a liver problem then they refer people to A & M.

bjh 07-28-2008 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2143858)
:thumbup:

I agree 100%. We had long thread recently about a puppy who tragically died shortly after having a routine BAT test done. Did anyone read the thread after that with the results of the necropsy done on the puppy? The puppy did not die from the BAT test. The puppy died from Cryptosporidium, a particularly nasty form of Coccidia.
The puppy did not die directly from the BAT test but indirectly. The large amount of blood drawn for the BAT test weakened the immune system of the puppy and that lead to the crypotosporidium. Had the owner not followed bad advise stating that it is okay to BAT test a 12 week old puppy then I feel the puppy would still be alive. Most all the experts say it is best to wait until a puppy is close to 6 months old before doing a BAT test. Of course, if you have a sick puppy you have to act immediately and that is when you pray your vet knows what he is doing.

MyFairLacy 07-28-2008 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2144102)
Actually, most vets don't know that much about liver disease which is why most people end up having to go to a vet school for diagnosis and surgery if necessary.

For example, many vets will recommend an ultrasound which is a waste of money as they are only about 80% effective at diagnosing shunts. A scintigraphy is the accurate way to diagnose a shunt. Many vets have not heard of scintigraphy or even heard of a Protein C test or a bile acids test.

This is not a slam on vets, just a statement of facts. The treatment of liver disease is very specialized. Most vets just don't see that many cases in their practice. Vets are like our primary care doctors who can take care of most ordinary ailments, but refer us to a specialist for a more complicated health problem.
:thumbup::thumbup:

diggy4 07-28-2008 05:09 PM
Diggy was tested at 8 weeks and was barely a pound.

Ladymom 07-28-2008 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2144286)
Most all the experts say it is best to wait until a puppy is close to 6 months old before doing a BAT test.
Actually, that's not true. Dr. Sharon Center, the developer of the BAT, recommends Yorkies and other affected breeds be BAT tested at eighteen weeks (4&1/2 months). She recently revised her recommendation from sixteen weeks based upon the research she is doing with her AKC grant to look for a genetic marker for liver shunts. The age was raised by two weeks based upon the development/maturity of the liver, not because of any potential danger to puppies.

I urge everyone to read Dr. Center's most recent (June 2008) article if you haven't already:

http://www.yorkiefoundation.org/purina1.pdf

gardenyorkies 07-28-2008 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2143419)
Oh, dear. I hadn't seen the original thread. Apparently the OP bathed little Bam Bam in Hartz flea shampoo. I have heard so many horror stories about deadly reactions to Hartz and other flea products sold over the counter. I wonder if this could be the cause of his symptoms?

The side effects from Hartz flea products are frightening:

HartzVictims.org - One More Victim is One Too Many

Oh my I would suspect this being a problem...It can cause all those symptoms...The poor baby is so small and probably has had a toxic reaction to this product...Man I wish they would pull this from the market!

Cookie2 07-29-2008 07:33 AM
She didnt use the Hartz Flea product. She used the regular Puppy Shampoo from Hartz. They dont use that pesticide chemical in the puppy shampoo.

However I would also recommend to discontinue the use of any HARTZ products.Better to be safe than sorry


I hope that with persistance Bam Bam will come around soon :)
I know I cried my eyes out the day that I saw Cookie walk up to his food bowl and start eating on his own! That was about 2 months after syringe feeding. So you can imagine how emotional I became lol

He's still a little bit of a picky eater today but ,when he's hungry he will go to his bowl on his own ...

Genie
Cookie, Lola,Angel & Lucky

lulababy 07-29-2008 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie2 (Post 2145232)
She didnt use the Hartz Flea product. She used the regular Puppy Shampoo from Hartz. They dont use that pesticide chemical in the puppy shampoo.

However I would also recommend to discontinue the use of any HARTZ products.Better to be safe than sorry


I hope that with persistance Bam Bam will come around soon :)
I know I cried my eyes out the day that I saw Cookie walk up to his food bowl and start eating on his own! That was about 2 months after syringe feeding. So you can imagine how emotional I became lol

He's still a little bit of a picky eater today but ,when he's hungry he will go to his bowl on his own ...

Genie
Cookie, Lola,Angel & Lucky

thank you.. i feel like no one read when I said I didnt use the flea shampoo lol.

bam bam is continuing to do better.. I think I found some food he really likes and he is eating it with gusto. i still have to offer him food during the day but he is eating a lot better :thumbup:

NanaDtreasures 07-29-2008 02:02 PM
I am so glad Bam Bam is doing better.
Hopefully he is on his was to being well

Ladymom 07-29-2008 02:53 PM
:thumbup::thumbup:

I am so glad that Bam Bam is eating and doing better! Keep us updated. We're all pulling for the little guy. :D

lulababy 07-29-2008 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2146370)
:thumbup::thumbup:

I am so glad that Bam Bam is eating and doing better! Keep us updated. We're all pulling for the little guy. :D
i weighed him a little earlier and he is now 19 ounces!!

Ladymom 07-29-2008 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lulababy (Post 2146499)
i weighed him a little earlier and he is now 19 ounces!!
:bravo:

Yippeee!!!!!

I just read about your other dog having a respiratory infection. I hate to think of poor Bam Bam catching it and having to battle that, too. Poor little guy has been through so much already.


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