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-   -   Another question.... (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/131512-another-question.html)

Mom2BabyNatalie 05-26-2008 06:07 AM
Another question....
 
With regards to the basis of a breeding program rather than for show...

Consider this....

Two dogs that are of a very nice quality with good lines....

One is already an international CH with more than a few CH's in his pedigree including a few US CH's as well.

The second is not yet titled but his pedigree is filled with almost ALL CH's - though they are international CH's....

If you do not plan to do any showing but want to bring in some higher quality lines to your program...... do you go with the CH - or the untitled dog with the exceptional pedigree?

I know there are a million other aspects in which to consider... but as for this issue alone.... which way would you tend to lean?

sandybobb 05-26-2008 07:07 AM
My opinion Go with the pedigree
 
Hi. I know I am new here.... but have spent many years around horse breeders and dog breeders & am just getting into things for myself. I have seen many wonderful champions come from a average looking mother with excellent lines. And have owned a gorgeous male persian cat that couldn't show b/c when he was a kitten his coat was damaged and never came back in properly. Several national level breeders stated he could easily champion - but he couldn't reproduce himself. So my opinion, humble as it may be, is the pedigree stands over a excellent single example of any breed.
Sandra

yorkiekist 05-26-2008 12:14 PM
I would go with the dog that was the BEST example of the breed, health wise and conformation wise. You cant always breed a pedigree. There are many dogs that are CH sired and dam with and all champion background that should never be used for breeding.

Mom2BabyNatalie 05-26-2008 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2012256)
I would go with the dog that was the BEST example of the breed, health wise and conformation wise. You cant always breed a pedigree. There are many dogs that are CH sired and dam with and all champion background that should never be used for breeding.
Both dogs are excellent representatives of breed standard... I get what you're saying though...

I don't know how you guys do it!! haha... I've been stressing for MONTHS over this.... even breeding a CH with CH lines doesn't guarantee the same quality offspring. This is TOUGH!! :eek:

Thanks for posting! :)

Sugar's Mom 05-26-2008 03:34 PM
Also consider this. A dog can be purchased or bred from any bloodline. If he has good conformation and etc and is worked with and shown, he can become a champion even with a nothing bloodline so the champion dog may not have any other great bloodlines behind him. I have a tendency to go with the dog that has the great conformation and etc but is not a champion himself BUT has an almost red pedigree. Like my Renny. he has an awesome pedgree but has never been shown himself. i tried but he didn't like it so now he is my stud. Guess what I am rambling about is to me a champion wouldn't be worth much unless he had the bloodline to back it up. Hope this makes sense to you. I know I am rambling and it doesn't make much sense to me:p

TeddyandTiffy 05-26-2008 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2012256)
I would go with the dog that was the BEST example of the breed, health wise and conformation wise. You cant always breed a pedigree. There are many dogs that are CH sired and dam with and all champion background that should never be used for breeding.
Your Answer is very good. I find this very intresting about what you each have to say about this subject as I too am learning. :) Lee

Mom2BabyNatalie 05-26-2008 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2012532)
Also consider this. A dog can be purchased or bred from any bloodline. If he has good conformation and etc and is worked with and shown, he can become a champion even with a nothing bloodline so the champion dog may not have any other great bloodlines behind him. I have a tendency to go with the dog that has the great conformation and etc but is not a champion himself BUT has an almost red pedigree. Like my Renny. he has an awesome pedgree but has never been shown himself. i tried but he didn't like it so now he is my stud. Guess what I am rambling about is to me a champion wouldn't be worth much unless he had the bloodline to back it up. Hope this makes sense to you. I know I am rambling and it doesn't make much sense to me:p
Oh no, you're making fine sense. :) I think part of my concern is that of "wasting" a CH quality dog WITH the great pedigree behind him, by not knowing the ring and allowing him the opportunity to show.

Which is why I was kind of considering purchasing a retired CH. vs an untitled potential.

Either way, the titles, or lack thereof, don't hold an ounce of weight if the pups produced are "less than desirable"....

Like I said, I don't know how you guys do it! Making the decisions for just the right lines to bring in is mind boggling at times! ;)

yorkiekist 05-26-2008 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy (Post 2012691)
Your Answer is very good. I find this very intresting about what you each have to say about this subject as I too am learning. :) Lee
Thanks!!:) But I forgot to finish because I got busy with laundry. Anyway, the best representative of the breed will also be a crap shoot to breed if there are no champions in the background and will probably be an outcross to the female being bred.(the other one with the great pedigree might be an outcross too). Being the there are no champions in the background, you have no guarantee of what kind of quality the dog will produce. He might have been the only one for generations to turn out gorgeous. The dog with the jillion champions will be a little easier to predict as you have generations that have produced well and can research what they have produced in the past. But, with both being of no relation to the bitch being bred, (outcross), it will still be very uncertain what they will produce. You might get one good puppy out of 4, the others being very pet quality. Or you might not get good quality at all. Or you might get one nice puppy on the first litter but never a nice puppy on other litters. Hope this makes sense.

TeddyandTiffy 05-27-2008 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 2013120)
Thanks!!:) But I forgot to finish because I got busy with laundry. Anyway, the best representative of the breed will also be a crap shoot to breed if there are no champions in the background and will probably be an outcross to the female being bred.(the other one with the great pedigree might be an outcross too). Being the there are no champions in the background, you have no guarantee of what kind of quality the dog will produce. He might have been the only one for generations to turn out gorgeous. The dog with the jillion champions will be a little easier to predict as you have generations that have produced well and can research what they have produced in the past. But, with both being of no relation to the bitch being bred, (outcross), it will still be very uncertain what they will produce. You might get one good puppy out of 4, the others being very pet quality. Or you might not get good quality at all. Or you might get one nice puppy on the first litter but never a nice puppy on other litters. Hope this makes sense.
Yes this does make sense to me and thanks for going into great detail about it. I love learning about Yorkies. :) Lee


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