Weight question
 

I have become friendly with a yorkie breeder in my area. I am not quite ready to add a new little one yet. She just had a litter Nov. 30th, 2007. It is a litter of three. Mom 8 pounds (cute:rolleyes: ) and dad 5 pounds (gorgeous:D ). The puppies are black and tan but with white striped chests and the tips of their feet are white as well. The puppies were born at 5 oz, 5.5 oz, 8 oz. and are currently over 1 pound each. Does this seem possible? It seems like the puppies are really big for only 10 days. The puppies are cute as a button but I am hoping to purchase a yorkie female for breeding purposes. The breeder seems to be sure that the puppies will be around standard but no one can be positive. Do these puppies seem like they could be 100% purebred? The breeder showed me both parents AKC papers but it is possible that some where in the lineage a mix could have occured that the breeder does not know about. The breeder only breeds yorkies.

Ex. Breeder X breeds yorkies and s**t tzus. Breeder X breeds female 1 to male 1 both yorkies but she does not know that one of her s**t tzu got her female while she was out because husband accidently left the female unattended. So as far as Breeder X knows the puppies produced are yorkies so she registers them as such. Breeder Y buys a puppy from breeder X and know the line continues with a s**t tzu mix.

Does this make sense? I only question these puppies because there are some people on this site that have month old puppies that are barely 1 pound. Am probably over reacting but I don't want to fall for another teapot if I can help it.

1lb at 10 days seems awefully big to me..and the mom is over standard so it's possible the puppies could be on the larger side as well. These puppies are definitely not going to be tiny though..that's for sure

You have questions about this breeder , why aren't you buying from someone reputable and that you can trust???

Mom is currently post-babies 8 pounds, pre babies was a little less than 7 pounds. It is not the breeder I have questions about so much as the puppies. This breeder is highly recommended. This breeder only breeds yorkie and her does are indoor/fenced in backyard only dogs. 1 pound seems big to me and the color is off on the puppies. I just really want to know if black, tan, and white are semi-commonly found on yorkie pups. Mom's previous little was 6 and the puppies were much smaller according to the breeder and pictures she showed me.

All yorkie puppies are supposed to be born Black and Tan and it is not uncommon to have a very small amount of white on them, either on the chest and sometimes on the toes.

So coloration currently is acceptable what about size 1 pound at 10 days? Over thinking it I know but would rather be safe than sorry.

8 pounds post puppies is not that big. However, you can't judge size based just on the size of the dam and sire, you have to consider the size further back within the lineage as well. 1 pound at 10 days does seem a bit on the larger size. It doesn't necessarily mean there is mixing somewhere down the line though...it could just mean that they are larger Yorkies. (Of course, a mix thrown in there is ALWAYS a possibility.) And yes, the coloring is normal.
I agree though that if you don't feel like you can completely trust the breeder, don't get the pup.

You will be able to tell more when the puppies are 8 weeks old and again when they reach 12 weeks, but still puppies can get very big and then stop growing. But some puppies can be 3 pounds at 12 weeks and then keep on growing to be 7 or 8 pounds or even bigger. With this breed there are no guarantees, if you want a guarantee you will need to buy from a reputable breeder. Or you could buy an adult female so you can be sure of the size.

Do you plan to show and finish this girl before you breed her?

Even reputable breeders can't absolutely guarantee the size of a puppy. I know you probably meant that they will know the lineage of your puppy, so will have a better idea of what size it will be. I totally agree with you--it is the best way to give the most knowledgeable estimate. But there is no way to be 100% sure, except to purchase an adult, as you suggested.

Please know that I'm not trying to be nit-picky, just wanted to clarify. :)

I just realized that maybe you mean that some breeders are confident enough that they can afford to offer a guarantee on size? Although I have never seen this, I realize it is a possibility.

Sorry if I misunderstood. :)

Yes you can guesstimate..but, not guarantee....

On the pups....to absolutely identify parentage....their is a DNA that can performed on the sire and pups.

If you are buying a show quality dog, the dog needs to stay with in the standard that is where the reputable breeder comes in to play. But if you are just buying something to breed, most of the time you do not get these dogs from reputable breeders , as most of the good breeders that care about the breed, their dogs go out on a spay and neuter contract not for just breeding.

I have DNA Certification on my male and female yorkie, so that if there were a question on who the mom and dad are, I can provide proof. No-one has every questioned me to this day, but you never know. I also have DNA certification on my other yorkies, even though I don't breed them. It just gives me an extra measure of security, because I can prove, without a doubt, who my babies are.

I understand what Debbie (and Mardelin) mean regarding size guarantees. When you run accross a breeder who has spent years and years (as in 15, 20, more, not as in 1 or 2 yrs) breeding, studying Yorkies and developing a strong line...they have a trained eye that can estimate what their dogs are producing and are able to estimate things, weight included, pretty accurately.

I also agree w/ Debbie on another point. Any breeder who is truly dedicated to their program will not be so willing to just turn over one of their dogs for breeding...if you find one willing to do so, I would question if the dog will in fact be a quality specimen that should be bred.

I don't know if I missed something.....but, I didn't see where purchasing a breeding dog was the original posters question. But, to add.....if one is looking for a show/breeding (pretty much one in the same) dog...one wouldn't purchase one until approximately 6 - 8 months or older....waiting until then would give you more of a guarantee as to whether the dog meets the standard.

Debbie is right....reputable breeders do not readily let go of their dogs on an open registration to anyone with the asking price.

The puppies are cute as a button but I am hoping to purchase a yorkie female for breeding purposes.:cool:

I was just adding to what dray said---original question aside, she made good points.:)

Thanks Bama...I knew super slueth would tell me where I'd missed it....these ole eyes are getting bad.

Thanks

I had purchased two studs/show prospects, both went way over standard...first was 4 months, he matured to 13 lbs (placed in a pet home) the second 8 weeks old he matured to 14 lbs (placed in a pet home). :eek:

When doing research on purchasing my first show dog I was given some advice by several reputable show breeders.

1. Know your beeder, you are purchasing a relationship/mentor, not only a show dog. (This one should be taken to heart even when purchasing a pet)

2. When purchasing a show/breeding dog, purchase a dog with a minimum of 10 generations unbroken champions in the pedigree... Gives you an idea that the breeder has put blood, sweat and tears into their breeding program and knows their line and what they have brought into the program, inside and out.

3. These people will stand behind their program and will take a dog back if it somehow doesn't work out. The dog goes over size later on....doesn't have what it takes (attitude) for the ring.

4. Don't purchase a show/breeding dog until their are at least 6 or + months of age.

5. Reputable breeders don't readily let go of their show/breeders on open registration. And won't place a show/breeding dog unless they would keep it in their own kennel. After all it's their reputation on the line....so, they are very particular on what they place as a show/breeding quality dog.

6. Don't buy a show dog from a breeder unless they have shown and championed dogs.....

This advice was given to me as a newbie and it has worked for me....other's may not agree with it and may have gone a different route that has worked for them....

you are right about the lineage...a reputable breeder will know past generations and what theyve produced the closer the breeding the better the chance a total outcross will be a crap shoot.

dam/sire is 50% of the puppy
grand dam/sire influence is 25%
great grand dam/sire influence 12.5%

The only time a dog has more of a contributing factor is when you see it in the pedigree several times.

Great post K and anyone that has studied canine genetics understands this formula.....alot of breeders don't and are just buying a dog with some famous kennel on the pedigree several generations back just to fool the unsuspecting public.....

It always baffles me when people advertise their pups as having CH lineage...and the CH are 4 or 5 gens back...:rolleyes: The CH genetics are quite diluted at that point--and who knows what went on in the middle of the 4/5 gen past CH and the present.:eek:

Let me add to this post.

I do know of a breeder that attempted to sell a show dog to a person. The breeder knew nothing about the person. And during their one and only phone conversation was going to immediately put a 10 week old pup on the plane to her....In my opinion this person was only interested in $$$$ not in her pups .

It is really hard to find breeders who will sell their pups for breeding purposes. Also the white if it's a lot may be from a piebald gene.

Reputable breeder
 

This is a reputable breeder who actively shows her dogs. Both parents are champions. She breed the father herself and knows his lines extensively. The mother is a new line that she is hoping to expand her breeding program with. If she does not keep one of the female puppies herself but still finds her worth of breeding she will only sell her with a must show understanding. She said that if the puppies stay pie colored or she feels will not add to the breed, she will sell only with spay/neuter contract i.e. no snip = no papers. The females lines are new to her so she can not predict the puppies with absolute certainity but who really can.

Even if I do purchase a puppy from this breeder it will be 2-3 years before I can breed because I would want her to be proven.

I was just asking a question about the puppies large size. The breeder said that the puppies may balance out in the end but I should not panic myself over it.

I tend to overanalyze.

I would not panic about their size yet.Usually they double their birth weight in the first week, you really cannot tell on some of them and some you can see it from birth that they will be smaller.
One of ours that we had to bottle feed was 2 oz at birth ,I knew he would stay small his feet were tiny etc.He is about 2 1/2 pounds at 8 months now.
We had 3 tiny ones 2 med size and a large one who is 5 pounds at 8 months.So all different sizes.

Even if I do purchase a puppy from this breeder it will be 2-3 years before I can breed because I would want her to be proven.:confused: can you please explain what you mean by proving your female?? :confused:

By proven I mean that she demonstrates the characteristic a yorkie should have and hopefully earn some level of recognization in the dog show world. That is what I mean by proven. Sorry for any confusion.