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Originally Posted by 107barney  I wanted to come back to this as I definitely misunderstood it the first time. I was under the impression that you provided conventional medical care for your animals and that your holistic vet was an adjunct. It is clear from this post that I misunderstood you. So, you have a holistic vet who uses herbs. He is a "minimalist" with vaccines and medicines. In all but one case w/ Kiwi, you used holistic medicine not conventional.
That's fine, that's your choice. Katie is a young dog, and I hope for her sake you are doing core vaccination, heartworm prevention and flea/tick prevention. I hope she has an annual physical exam and routine lab work. It isn't my business how you take care of your dogs, and they obviously have lived very long lives and are most definitely greatly loved and valued by you in the same way I value and love my dogs.
I guess I have some concerns w/ the disappointment you had w/ conventional medicine. Reading your post, you state that one of your dogs had developed kidney problems after being on enalapril for congestive heart failure. I am not a vet, so I cannot speak definitively on this issue, but it is my understanding that Enalapril and other ACE inhibitors are used to delay the onset of CHF. These ACE inhibitors are unlikely to cause kidney damage, in fact, they are widely prescribed by veterinary specialists for dogs w/ certain kidney disease like protein losing nephropathy. My own dog has PLN, and has been on an ACE inhibitor for about 4 years, with normal kidney values.
Unfortunately, congestive heart failure in dogs creates fluid problems which impact the kidney more so than the medications. Nowadays, CHF is treated with newer drugs like Viagra, Pimobenden, and maintaining fluid buildup with lasix. My dog has severe atrial enlargement and is on a tiny dose of an ACE inhibitor. There is no consensus from the ACVIM for my dog's treatment for the stage of heart disease he has, but his cardiologist has chosen to add the ACE inhibitor. This decision was also backed by his internist that is seeing him for collapsing trachea and bronchial compression.
That brings me to your next point about Collapsing Trachea. There is no better anti-inflammatory than corticosteroids. I have concerns about long term use of them, but again, small doses, and newer medications like Temiril-P can really keep symptoms at bay. My dog Barney who I referenced above about heart disease has had a very mild grade CT his whole life. Now that his heart is enlarged, it is causing some pressure on his bronchial stem and the area of narrowing of his trachea seems more pronounced. The trajectory of the disease in a now almost 15 year old dog will not be such that he will every really be a severe case. His heart is likely to do him in before the trachea every does and my worst fear is that the chordea tendonae will bust and he will die on the road to Boston before I can have his vets help him to his final rest.... But, while he is alive, I have had to come away from long held concerns about using steroids and broncho-dialators and cough suppressants. He will need some combo of these for the rest of his life. His potassium may jump from his ACE inhibitor, but if it does, Dr. Remillard who is a vet nutritionist will alter his diet to remove some potassium from his daily intake (he takes in quite a bit from sweet potatoes).
I guess what I am saying in a long winded way here is that medications have their place and the prescribers have decades of experience using these medications in certain dosages to preserve the health of the dog and improve their quality of life. I'm sorry you felt like conventional medicine did not do enough for your dogs. Perhaps you needed a specialist, with more specific training and clinical experience to titrate the drugs properly and in a minimal way where you would have been comfortable. Conventional vets have done plenty for my animals, also living long lives, and I hope even longer. I would never go to a holistic vet as a stand-alone person. I don't believe in their testing methodologies and don't need to listen to soft music piped into the waiting room while sipping an organic tea. My flavor is more like a cup of coffee, wifi, and the smell of broad spectrum microbicide filling the air so I know I'm in a hospital that stands ready and capable to take care of my animals. If they are integrative vets, then at least I know they are delivering some aspect of allopathic medicine and testing.
I hope Katie never gets sick. But if she does, I hope you will never rely fully on untested theories, herbs, and a guy you really like when she may really need the conventional veterinarian on her case. |
Thank you so much for your concern and for taking the time to write this. You have a great deal of knowledge to share, and I have learned so much from you today and in the past from your posts.
To answer your question, my vet takes an integrative approach to medicine. I have used herbs on a few occasions, but he mostly has used conventional medicatịn with my dogs. He blends western medicine with Chinese medicine. His wife also is a veterinarian at the practice. She got her degree from Cornell. My veterinarian uses conventional medicine and is a wonderful diagnostician, but he is mostly known for his Use of Chinese medicine.
Before Katie, I had three Yorkies all from the same sire who were within a year of each other. All three for the most part were treated mostly with conventional medicine. They had core vaccines every three years but no others, and they had yearly dentals and checkups. They most definitely had heartworm prevention, as well as flea and tick medicatịn. When Ashley was found to have an enlarged heart at close to eleven, he stopped all vaccines for her. She was on a small dose of Enalapril for her heart. When she was close to sixteen she took herbs for her heart because it was pressing on her trachea, but it wasn't for a long time. Her heart and lungs were very strong because of all of the walking we did. Ashley took herbs for her trachea for a short time also when she had a bad flare-up. I considered her tracheal issues mild, but perhaps it's because her little sister, Gracie, had severe tracheal issues her whole life. Otherwise, Ashley was treated with conventional medicine throughout her almost seventeen years. Gracie never took herbs. Her trachea was awful, and she required a lot of care. Herbs were never suggested for Gracie's trachea. Kiwi was my little girl with the terrible allergies and the heart problem not long before she passed away. We used cortisteroids and allergy serums, and she still suffered. She never got rashes or secondary infections, but they her allergies really affected her. We tried herbs for a while for her heart. My girls were very difficult to pill, and with the strong smell and probably awful taste of the herbs, they were able to spit them out of almost everything. I would have more readily used them if it was easier to get them to take herbs. When Kiwi went into CHF, she was prescribed Lasix and Enalapril. She was not taking herbs, and results from the blood test after only a week showed her kidneys were being affected. It was a long time ago, so I don't recall if we did blood work before she started the medication, but when the results of the kidneys being affected, he pulled her off Enalapril. We had to flush her kidneys out first and only later when she was stronger were herbs started.
Katie is six. She came to me at three years old having all puppy and first year vaccines. She had a rabies vaccine two years ago. My vet said he wanted to separate out the vaccines. I brought up the subject of titers, and that is his preference. Had I not brought titers up, he would have given her the booster a month later. I realize titers are not 100% reliable. I'm really very conflicted about whether she should have a vaccine this year. Her titer levels were very good last year and the duration of immunity most likely is greater than three years. I'm really struggling with this. Katie has never taken herbs, nor were they ever suggested, but I will consider them in certain instances. She has taken Flagyl and Clavamox but no other medications other than heartworm, flea, and tick medications.
i've seen my veterinarian's wife and the other vet in the practice, and they are very good vets, but I mostly see this vet. All practice conventional medicine with the addition of Chinese medicine at times. My vet has a wonderful way with animals, and he treats them with great respect. Herbs are never pushed, and I always feel he has the best interest of animals at heart. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't hesitate to seek the help of a specialist should Katie need one.
You have taken such wonderful care of all of your dogs, and I hope Barney and your three precious little ones remain healthy and happy. No doubt they are loved and given the very best care. I really admire how much you advocate for your dogs and how have given them every chance for the best, healthiest life possible.
Thank you again for looking out for Katie and me. She is the center of our lives, and we adore her. We would never knowingly do anything to harm her, and we are doing our very best to keep her healthy, active, and extremely happy.