YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community - View Single Post - My 4lb yorkie is pregnant by my 10lb yorkie! First timer.. Help!

lynzy420 · 11-06-2013, 08:44 AM

RE: Breeding
Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:54 PM
From: "Cheryl Lopate" <lopatec1@gmail.com>To: Lynzy420
Thanks for your interest regarding the situation where a small bitch is bred
by a larger male. I will not speak to the specifics of this case, but will
rather speak in generalities.

Normally when an accidental breeding happens, we recommend getting the bitch
in immediately for a vaginal cytology, speculum exam and progesterone to
determine where she is in regards to her fertile period. From there we can
determine when is the earliest we can have her in for a pregnancy ultrasound
to determine a) if she is pregnant; b) approximately how many embryos she
has; and c) to determine gestational age so we have a due date. U/S is quite
sensitive and allows us to determine all these things now with fairly good
accuracy.

If we don't get the call about the breeding right away, then as soon as we
feel we can get them in for the u/s, we recommend that. Gestational aging is
most accurate around mid- pregnancy but we can do it at any time during
pregnancy, right up till term, and we actually have gestational aging
formulas for Yorkies, so we can be pretty accurate with their due dates. The
further along in pregnancy and the larger the litter the harder to get
accurate counts, but we can make estimates in terms of fetal numbers.

During this pregnancy exam, we have a discussion with the owner in regards
to how the pregnancy will be handled. We can 1) allow it to go to term with
a free whelp; 2) allow it to go to term and plan an elective C-section; 3)
allow it to go to term and then do a radiograph close to the start of the
whelping window to assess fetal size in comparison to maternal size to
determine if free whelping is possible or not; 4) terminate the pregnancy by
ovariohysterectomy; 5) terminate the pregnancy medically (prostaglandins,
progesterone receptor antagonists or steroids can all be used successfully
and the type of pregnancy termination would be determined after discussions
with the owner and examination of the patient). Usually we only terminate
medically if the bitch is a broodbitch, because it is typically more
expensive to terminate medically than to perform a pregnant spay.

While there are risks with any surgery, a C-section is typically a less
risky surgery than a pregnant ovariohysterectomy for a number of reasons.
With a pregnant spay there are much higher risks of: 1) bleeding
post-operatively; 2) having the bitch throw a clot after surgery (pregnancy
is a thromboembolic state - which means that they are more likely to have
abnormal clotting issues, and with a spay you have cut and tied off
(ligated) many, many vessels, all of which can release a clot and have it go
into the circulation where it may go to the brain or lungs, killing the
patient); 3) having significant blood loss (the blood volume of the bitch is
shared with the pregnant uterus so when you spay a pregnant bitch you
removed this shared blood volume making the bitch immediately anemic), which
can cause a significant drop in blood pressure and make the bitch a much
higher anesthetic risk for the remainder of the surgery.

C-sections are a safer anesthetic procedure than a pregnant
ovariohysterectomy in the hands of a veterinarian who is experienced with
the physiologic changes that occur during pregnancy. So as long as the bitch
is managed well nutritionally so that she is not in poor body condition at
term, C-section is definitely safer than a pregnant spay (or even worse a
C-section spay- which has all the same risks as above plus additional
surgical time in a patient that has become a poor anesthetic candidate by
the acute removal of 1/3 of her blood volume).

In a case such as this, where the male is significantly larger than the
bitch, and the bitch is quite small to begin with, free whelping is most
likely going to be out of the question. So if the owner prefers not to do a
pregnant spay, C-section is the safest way to try to deliver pups. A x-ray
will confirm or refute the need for a C-section, if done close to term and
would absolutely be recommended in a situation like this if the owner was
contemplating free whelping. We would not recommend just trying to free
whelp and then seeking medical attention if she failed to progress, as she
could get into serious trouble quickly and depending on how far away from
emergency veterinary care the clients were and how quickly they could get
into surgery, the risk to the bitch could become significant. That said, the
bitch does contribute half the genetics to the pups and so fetal size may
not necessarily be too big, especially if litter size were high enough to
cause the fetus' growth to be subdued to space concerns in the uterus.

Hopefully that helps with your understanding about the risks of free
whelping, C-section, and pregnant spay as well as how we recommend dealing
with accidental breedings. Please let me know if you have any further
questions in this regard.

RE: BreedingWednesday, November 6, 2013 12:02 AM
Mark as Unread Flag this messageFrom: "Cheryl Lopate" <lopatec1@gmail.com>To: lynzy420 I just realized there was more than 1 page of comments.... so one other
comment that was made which is not really accurate is that small bitches are
no more likely than a large bitch to rupture her uterus. A bitch with an
obstructive dystocia has a risk of uterine rupture regardless of size. The
uterus has an amazing capacity to stretch such that the size of the fetuses
may preclude vaginal delivery but uterine rupture will not typically occur
unless the bitch has an obstruction during delivery or she is given too high
a dose of oxytocin against an obstruction.

I'd also comment that an early pregnancy spay is less risky than a last
third of pregnancy spay, although all pregnancy spays have a significantly
higher risk than a normal, non-pregnant spay. While shelters and general
practitioners may be willing to risk a bitch just to get her spayed as
quickly as possible, it my job as a specialist to consider all the risks and
benefits of all options and to present these to the client to help them make
an educated decision hopefully with the best interest of the bitch in mind
without all the emotion of the situation thrown into the mix.

I do understand that all of you on this list feel that bitches bred
accidentally need to be spayed and that breeding should not be undertaken
without complete health testing, pedigree analysis, assessment of
conformation and temperament and I completely agree with this. I spend a
considerable amount of time discussing these very things with my clients
every single day.

Ultimately though, what needs to be considered is when is the safest time
for a late pregnant bitch to be spayed? Spaying in late pregnancy has many
more risks (previously discussed in my last email) than waiting until she
has weaned the puppies. A managed pregnancy and an elective C-section puts
the late pregnant bitch at less risk, than all other options in this case
(besides medical termination of pregnancy - which also has its own risks).
Recommendations made to owners need to be made on a case by case basis and
broad generalizations need to be avoided.

Cheryl

Cheryl Lopate, MS, DVM
Diplomate, American College of Theriogenologists
(Board Certified in Reproduction)
lopatec1@gmail.com

Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic (small animal facility)
9275 SW Barber St
Wilsonville, OR 97070
503-682-3737
503-682-3540 (fax)
Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic - Reproductive Revolutions

Reproductive Revolutions (equine facility)
18858 Case Rd NE
Aurora, OR 97002
503-982-5701
503-982-5718 (fax)
Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic - Reproductive Revolutions

11-06-2013, 08:44 AM	#93
lynzy420 Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: USA Posts: 7,652	Part II - Vet Specialist Response(s) RE: Breeding Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:54 PM From: "Cheryl Lopate" <lopatec1@gmail.com>To: Lynzy420 Thanks for your interest regarding the situation where a small bitch is bred by a larger male. I will not speak to the specifics of this case, but will rather speak in generalities. Normally when an accidental breeding happens, we recommend getting the bitch in immediately for a vaginal cytology, speculum exam and progesterone to determine where she is in regards to her fertile period. From there we can determine when is the earliest we can have her in for a pregnancy ultrasound to determine a) if she is pregnant; b) approximately how many embryos she has; and c) to determine gestational age so we have a due date. U/S is quite sensitive and allows us to determine all these things now with fairly good accuracy. If we don't get the call about the breeding right away, then as soon as we feel we can get them in for the u/s, we recommend that. Gestational aging is most accurate around mid- pregnancy but we can do it at any time during pregnancy, right up till term, and we actually have gestational aging formulas for Yorkies, so we can be pretty accurate with their due dates. The further along in pregnancy and the larger the litter the harder to get accurate counts, but we can make estimates in terms of fetal numbers. During this pregnancy exam, we have a discussion with the owner in regards to how the pregnancy will be handled. We can 1) allow it to go to term with a free whelp; 2) allow it to go to term and plan an elective C-section; 3) allow it to go to term and then do a radiograph close to the start of the whelping window to assess fetal size in comparison to maternal size to determine if free whelping is possible or not; 4) terminate the pregnancy by ovariohysterectomy; 5) terminate the pregnancy medically (prostaglandins, progesterone receptor antagonists or steroids can all be used successfully and the type of pregnancy termination would be determined after discussions with the owner and examination of the patient). Usually we only terminate medically if the bitch is a broodbitch, because it is typically more expensive to terminate medically than to perform a pregnant spay. While there are risks with any surgery, a C-section is typically a less risky surgery than a pregnant ovariohysterectomy for a number of reasons. With a pregnant spay there are much higher risks of: 1) bleeding post-operatively; 2) having the bitch throw a clot after surgery (pregnancy is a thromboembolic state - which means that they are more likely to have abnormal clotting issues, and with a spay you have cut and tied off (ligated) many, many vessels, all of which can release a clot and have it go into the circulation where it may go to the brain or lungs, killing the patient); 3) having significant blood loss (the blood volume of the bitch is shared with the pregnant uterus so when you spay a pregnant bitch you removed this shared blood volume making the bitch immediately anemic), which can cause a significant drop in blood pressure and make the bitch a much higher anesthetic risk for the remainder of the surgery. C-sections are a safer anesthetic procedure than a pregnant ovariohysterectomy in the hands of a veterinarian who is experienced with the physiologic changes that occur during pregnancy. So as long as the bitch is managed well nutritionally so that she is not in poor body condition at term, C-section is definitely safer than a pregnant spay (or even worse a C-section spay- which has all the same risks as above plus additional surgical time in a patient that has become a poor anesthetic candidate by the acute removal of 1/3 of her blood volume). In a case such as this, where the male is significantly larger than the bitch, and the bitch is quite small to begin with, free whelping is most likely going to be out of the question. So if the owner prefers not to do a pregnant spay, C-section is the safest way to try to deliver pups. A x-ray will confirm or refute the need for a C-section, if done close to term and would absolutely be recommended in a situation like this if the owner was contemplating free whelping. We would not recommend just trying to free whelp and then seeking medical attention if she failed to progress, as she could get into serious trouble quickly and depending on how far away from emergency veterinary care the clients were and how quickly they could get into surgery, the risk to the bitch could become significant. That said, the bitch does contribute half the genetics to the pups and so fetal size may not necessarily be too big, especially if litter size were high enough to cause the fetus' growth to be subdued to space concerns in the uterus. Hopefully that helps with your understanding about the risks of free whelping, C-section, and pregnant spay as well as how we recommend dealing with accidental breedings. Please let me know if you have any further questions in this regard. RE: BreedingWednesday, November 6, 2013 12:02 AM Mark as Unread Flag this messageFrom: "Cheryl Lopate" <lopatec1@gmail.com>To: lynzy420 I just realized there was more than 1 page of comments.... so one other comment that was made which is not really accurate is that small bitches are no more likely than a large bitch to rupture her uterus. A bitch with an obstructive dystocia has a risk of uterine rupture regardless of size. The uterus has an amazing capacity to stretch such that the size of the fetuses may preclude vaginal delivery but uterine rupture will not typically occur unless the bitch has an obstruction during delivery or she is given too high a dose of oxytocin against an obstruction. I'd also comment that an early pregnancy spay is less risky than a last third of pregnancy spay, although all pregnancy spays have a significantly higher risk than a normal, non-pregnant spay. While shelters and general practitioners may be willing to risk a bitch just to get her spayed as quickly as possible, it my job as a specialist to consider all the risks and benefits of all options and to present these to the client to help them make an educated decision hopefully with the best interest of the bitch in mind without all the emotion of the situation thrown into the mix. I do understand that all of you on this list feel that bitches bred accidentally need to be spayed and that breeding should not be undertaken without complete health testing, pedigree analysis, assessment of conformation and temperament and I completely agree with this. I spend a considerable amount of time discussing these very things with my clients every single day. Ultimately though, what needs to be considered is when is the safest time for a late pregnant bitch to be spayed? Spaying in late pregnancy has many more risks (previously discussed in my last email) than waiting until she has weaned the puppies. A managed pregnancy and an elective C-section puts the late pregnant bitch at less risk, than all other options in this case (besides medical termination of pregnancy - which also has its own risks). Recommendations made to owners need to be made on a case by case basis and broad generalizations need to be avoided. Cheryl Cheryl Lopate, MS, DVM Diplomate, American College of Theriogenologists (Board Certified in Reproduction) lopatec1@gmail.com Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic (small animal facility) 9275 SW Barber St Wilsonville, OR 97070 503-682-3737 503-682-3540 (fax) Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic - Reproductive Revolutions Reproductive Revolutions (equine facility) 18858 Case Rd NE Aurora, OR 97002 503-982-5701 503-982-5718 (fax) Wilsonville Veterinary Clinic - Reproductive Revolutions __________________ The Above advice/comments/reviews are my personal opinions based on my own experience/education/investigation and research and you can take them any way you want to......Or NOT!!!