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Old 08-17-2011, 05:08 AM   #15
Belle Noir
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Reading, PA, USA
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I see some of you are having a bit of fun at my expense. I can take a joke as well as any one else can, but really, is this a way to treat someone legitimately looking for information?

@ladyjane
There is nothing in any book I have found that explains where the gold coloring comes from, let alone the born gold Yorkies.
There are small explanations about where parti color comes from and in MY personal experience and knowledge, I can guess where chocolate comes from. What I cannot understand is where gold comes from, and no one, not even the color breeders have any explanation that I have found.

@Nancy1999
Thank you. I actually saw today a "teapot" Yorkie (a big and lively boy he was too) today that has the gold coloration coming in down the spine. I forget who it was, but someone here asked about that and was told that some Yorkies will turn solid gold as they age, as that spine color can increase with age and over take all the steel blue of the back and sides.
Could it be that gold born Yorkies are dogs that have expressed at birth the modifier gene that causes solid gold coloration at maturity?
It is a supposition on my part to think that they may be related, but as I have had no information for or against supporting that idea, it's only a tenuous theory at best.
While there are other black and tan breeds, the Yorkie is the only black and tan that has the very specific color change at maturity, so far as I have found (with the possible exception of the Silky). Kerry Blues are another breed that are black at birth and blue as adults, but they are solid, without the tan points. Though I expect that it is possible that black and tan mismarks can and have been born, especially since a not too in depth search for information reveals this tidbit about the Kerry
"The first probable literary references to the Kerry Blue dates from 1847: the author describes a bluish slate coloured dog, marked with darker blotches and patches, and often with tan about the legs and muzzle."
And also
"Colour: Blue of any shade with or without black points. Black is permissible only up to the age of 18 months, as is also a shade of tan."
Also it is said in some places that the "black and tan terrier" was used in the formation of the breed, which also enhances the likelihood of black and tan mismarks in the Kerry Blue, which would then lighten like the Yorkie.
However, not only do Yorkies have the color change from black and tan to blue and gold, they have a modifier that completely changes the PLACEMENT of the coloration from the typical tan points at birth to the full gold head as adults. And the only other breed that may also exhibit that kind of color migration insofar as I can guess, is again, the Silky.
That is fascinating on it's own, and I confess to being mystified by what modifier would cause such a change.
Of course the steel blue is likely caused by the "G" greying gene, but what causes the color migration of the head? I don't yet know.

@Grendel
When I say I am an amateur student of genetics, I mean to say I have no formal training at it. However, I have MORE than a working knowledge of how genetics work, especially simple Mendelian genetics, which SEEMS to be how the gold expression works.
It is FAR more complicated than the pups get what is dominant. They may get a double recessive instead, they can inherit several modifiers both dominant and recessive, along with the double recessive. A good example would be a liver and tan brindle. Black and tan (recessive), the liver dilution gene (recessive) and the brindle modifier (dominant)..
This is also assuming I am trying to breed dogs. I have no intentions at this time to go back to breeding. I have done my time in the trenches, as it were, breeding dogs for about 17 years. As my last litter reaches their twilight years, and I get word back of the exploits of their grand children and great grand children, I may feel a sense of nostalgia, but no tugging to pull me back in that direction of my life. My breeding endeavors are strictly limited to betta fish, (another intriguing venture into the world of genetics, and the only one I am interested in pursuing).

I am a pet owner, and dog enthusiast, and as I said, a student of genetics.
The gold color fascinates me, as I can't understand where it comes from. Understand I am not casting any asperations on the purity of gold colored Yorkies. Understand I am not looking into this because I intend on breeding, though if I were, my apologizes to the color breeders, I wouldn't be interesting in breeding non standard colored dogs, because showing has always been a part of my end goal, and I believe that conformation showing is a part of the total package EVERY dog should have in order to breed.
I am only asking because I have not been able to find any information anywhere as to where this color comes from, not even on color breeder sites.

How can such a non standard color burst on the scene and there be NO information about it? That puzzles me completely. I have found information on red Rotts, on black and tan Labs, white Dobes, merle Chihuahuas, blue Vizslas.. even black Boxers.
But nothing on gold Yorkies.

I thought, as my outside searches came to naught, not only in books, but online, that THIS would be a place to go to gain some insight on this coloration. As my search of this site yielded nothing, I hoped that by ASKING, I would learn something about this color.
I was not expecting jokes, distraction and derailment. To wit, on THOSE answers, I am greatly disappointed. To those that truly tried to help me, I am grateful.

If anyone would care to enter into an informative discussion of the gold coloration, or point me more closely in the direction where I might find information, I would be very appreciative of your time and assistance.

ETA: Thank you Pinehaven for your post. I do appreciate it, and it answers my question on the Gold Yorkie.
My post and yours may well have been being written at the some time, so I missed your reply by the time I submitted.

Last edited by Belle Noir; 08-17-2011 at 05:12 AM. Reason: For clarifacation
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