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wildcard · 01-16-2009, 08:31 AM

Brother to sister breedings mean that their genotypes are much more similar than would be dogs that are not as closely related. I don't know of anyone who purposefully does a sibling breeding because of the risks of doubling up on the genetic faults contained in those genotypes. You cannot get more closely related genetically than full siblings. Assuming that the puppies gorw up alive and well, when you place them I think you are under an obligation to be clear about the fact that their parents are full siblings and you need to be very upfront about any health issues either or both of the parents' has. Of course if they are young, that makes that difficult since many genetic diseases and disorders do not reveal themselves until the dogs are older.

Fading puppy syndrome is not a disease, but rather a description of symptoms that leads to the death of a puppy. When I think of entire litters passing, my thoughts immediately go to herpes virus, although of course there can be other causes. Herpes virus can cause absorption, mummy puppies, stillborns and also cause newborn puppies to die. Herpes virus is pretty harmless to adult dogs because their body temperature is high enough to allow them to fight it off. Herpes virus is very very common and most dogs will have it at some point in their life, and then after that first exposure they develop an immunity to it. I don't worry about it as much as many do because my girls are shown to their championships (or we give it a good effort!) before they are bred, and most likely they have been exposed to the virus at a dog show or at our local training building long before they are bred. If a dog developes an immunity to it before she is pregnant, the litter should be safe even if she is exposed to it while pregnant. If mom has not been exposed (and this is more likely to happen if your girl is not in contact with a lot of dogs in her first few years) and is therefore not immune, and the virus happens to make its way into your home during the last three weeks of her pregnancy OR the first three weeks of the newborn puppies' lives, then your litter is at risk. There is a vaccine that can be given to bitches prior to becoming pregnant, but it is not available in the US. From what I have read, if you believe that there was herpes virus exposure to a bitch with no immunity or to newborns, your best best is to keep the puppies very warm- 95 degrees is optimal for a few weeks. This means you will need to provide a way for mom to get out of that heat and you need to make sure the puppies are not getting dehydrated as well.

I know you do not need lectures right now : ) but no way, no how, are onesies enough protection to keep dogs from breeding. When I have a girl in season she is crated except for supervised time outdoors and in the house, during which time my boys are crated. When I am not home or am asleep, the female in heat is crated and also closed in a room, the boys are crated and closed in a separate room. Just some ideas for the future so this does not happen again.

As for the poster asking about having related animals that are intact, that is an interesting question. For me, my breeding program involves line breeding and out crossing, and so it benefits me to have half and full siblings, that are intact so that they might be bred to distantly related or unrelated dogs, and then subsequent generations can later be combined with their distant "cousins" at some point. For instance, say I have two unrelated "foundation" bitches. I breed one of the bitches to the father of the other bitch, and keep a bitch and a dog from that breeding. So now I have two bitches and a dog that are half siblings, the father of all three being an exceptional dog that I want to play an important part in my breeding plans. Now I would not breed the littermates obviously, and I would not breed the half brother and half sister. But, I might eventually breed their great grandchildren together, so as to optimize the dog that I am very fond of but at the same time to allow for outcrossing in the generations inbetween to maintain genetic diversity.

01-16-2009, 08:31 AM	#16
wildcard Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 236	Brother to sister breedings mean that their genotypes are much more similar than would be dogs that are not as closely related. I don't know of anyone who purposefully does a sibling breeding because of the risks of doubling up on the genetic faults contained in those genotypes. You cannot get more closely related genetically than full siblings. Assuming that the puppies gorw up alive and well, when you place them I think you are under an obligation to be clear about the fact that their parents are full siblings and you need to be very upfront about any health issues either or both of the parents' has. Of course if they are young, that makes that difficult since many genetic diseases and disorders do not reveal themselves until the dogs are older. Fading puppy syndrome is not a disease, but rather a description of symptoms that leads to the death of a puppy. When I think of entire litters passing, my thoughts immediately go to herpes virus, although of course there can be other causes. Herpes virus can cause absorption, mummy puppies, stillborns and also cause newborn puppies to die. Herpes virus is pretty harmless to adult dogs because their body temperature is high enough to allow them to fight it off. Herpes virus is very very common and most dogs will have it at some point in their life, and then after that first exposure they develop an immunity to it. I don't worry about it as much as many do because my girls are shown to their championships (or we give it a good effort!) before they are bred, and most likely they have been exposed to the virus at a dog show or at our local training building long before they are bred. If a dog developes an immunity to it before she is pregnant, the litter should be safe even if she is exposed to it while pregnant. If mom has not been exposed (and this is more likely to happen if your girl is not in contact with a lot of dogs in her first few years) and is therefore not immune, and the virus happens to make its way into your home during the last three weeks of her pregnancy OR the first three weeks of the newborn puppies' lives, then your litter is at risk. There is a vaccine that can be given to bitches prior to becoming pregnant, but it is not available in the US. From what I have read, if you believe that there was herpes virus exposure to a bitch with no immunity or to newborns, your best best is to keep the puppies very warm- 95 degrees is optimal for a few weeks. This means you will need to provide a way for mom to get out of that heat and you need to make sure the puppies are not getting dehydrated as well. I know you do not need lectures right now : ) but no way, no how, are onesies enough protection to keep dogs from breeding. When I have a girl in season she is crated except for supervised time outdoors and in the house, during which time my boys are crated. When I am not home or am asleep, the female in heat is crated and also closed in a room, the boys are crated and closed in a separate room. Just some ideas for the future so this does not happen again. As for the poster asking about having related animals that are intact, that is an interesting question. For me, my breeding program involves line breeding and out crossing, and so it benefits me to have half and full siblings, that are intact so that they might be bred to distantly related or unrelated dogs, and then subsequent generations can later be combined with their distant "cousins" at some point. For instance, say I have two unrelated "foundation" bitches. I breed one of the bitches to the father of the other bitch, and keep a bitch and a dog from that breeding. So now I have two bitches and a dog that are half siblings, the father of all three being an exceptional dog that I want to play an important part in my breeding plans. Now I would not breed the littermates obviously, and I would not breed the half brother and half sister. But, I might eventually breed their great grandchildren together, so as to optimize the dog that I am very fond of but at the same time to allow for outcrossing in the generations inbetween to maintain genetic diversity.