[YorkieMother]

OK lets work on our learning still and still no war. I so enjoy this it is good for both of us.

So positive is seen in you eyes as not being a leader or setting boundries... it actually the opposite.. we have very firm rules and structure but we ask not tell the dog to get to that structure. We do what is shaping to get them to understand the full picture. We use treats yes only in the beginning stages of any new learning skill and we rapidly wean them off or it becomes a bribe.. We call it a pay cheque and we do not go to work for one why should our dogs not work for one.
If you see a clicker trainer/positive running around with a treat bag for the basics you got a trainer that does not get it at all. my dog and my working girl all can do the basics with me on one request of action the reactive one takes her maybe twice on a bad day but that not lack of structure that dealing with a mental defect but they get no treats now for the basics if we have to tidy up a skill we pull out the treats or if we are working a new skill they come out.
We very quickly get them on random reinforcement to straighten the response time.
Also that we never use punishment.. yeah we do but it is time outs... it lost of a treat. it lose of going out. it relative to what dogs want not a yank or a zap.

Now let me make something clear... I not totally against Cesar, I agree with to main points one structure, two -dogs need way more outlets to get exercise then man of us give them and..... that about it.

I love it if you would try a little experiment. turn off the sound on the show Cesar's that is and just watch the dog.... count the lip licks, eye blinks, yawns, head turns, shake off. watch the tail.. you got to have the sound off to count well..... one show I had 100. Now what do they mean.... but everyones standards but his and that means the entire other dog world it means the dog is under stress and is therefore not able at those rates able to retain anything being taught at any level and some if you watch the lights go out and the dogs not in it head. he working with a shell souls packed up and left. Tell me how that is OK.

As far as wanting to please yeah you can say that we say wanting to work with us to learn with us.
He wants the dog to please him do as they are told, I very much ok with a dog going no I can not do that I would like to but I can not.

Example, I am away, I have my small dog with me and it usually climbs stairs no problem. This stay do to a on going problem with health the dogs stops at the bottom of the stairs, they are hardwood and made it very clear as is allow there was no way it be able to climb up.
To the point it went to sleep on the couch in the living room, it turned around as I was already at the top and headed to the livingroom.... it was fear it did not do what I told it to do. I could have said very clearly climb and it would have but the trust it has in me would have been broken as I stopped listening... it did try it really did and it could not get over it.... Positive does not ask a dog to get over it any more then we as humans can demand a human to get over being afraid of heights or spiders. We ask to try and if they can not we try a different way. Now I pulled out the treats and I asked that way, still got "I can not"..... darling fine I standing here with high value treat and I see you can not... do I then slap a leash and drag it up Cesar would... that shatter this dog it be gone... it really can not climb hardwood stairs the truth is it can not see them and they feel different they go up more slow and do not have carpet like home.

So then what... force or pick it up take it to bed and live on. It is a dog fragile by nature it did really try.. you want to see a dog try to please it did it made it two steps got a treat and sat down crying , this one cries rarely and if you have never seen a dog cry for not being able to do asked as you are lucky.
Cesar see it as a dog dominating.
I see it as a dog not able to over come a scary thing now maybe Monday, many be on Tuesday and maybe never but force wreaks a bond of trust faster then anything and this wee one alive because we built a relationship in trust after I broke the soul of by Cesar's way..... your talking to someone thats been there done that and a dog is paying.... experience says he wrong.

Also not once have I seen him able to work with any other creature but dogs....... I can work with fish, cats, humans, dogs, horses, and have with the way I train.

Anyone can train anyway they want always but I have seen both sides.
I have one that is sstill in recovery from the old methods and I have one on loan that learned only the poitive methods, I take new any day.

JL