[bellasmomok]

Ok, YorkieMother, Perroamor did actually use the word "discipline", but she explained what she meant by the word in the very next sentence....teaching what is acceptable and what is not. That is exactly what you have been saying (and what everyone else has been saying too). I was simply pointing out to you that no one here has been talking about any form of punishment, excessive or otherwise, which is the conclusion you seemed to have reached when you originally posted, and continue posting, about how there's essentially no such thing as a pack leader and disciplining your dog is a bad idea.

In your most recent post you said "no dog or cat is out to take over the world or run the house they just want to do thing that make them happy safe and comfortable." I would say to you that you are only partially correct. Of course no dog/cat is out to take over the world....how ridiculous do you presume we are?? But they do not always do things "that make them happy safe and comfortable." Case in point, I opened the door yesterday and Bella bolted out of it, down the driveway, and nearly made it to the street as a car was passing. The whole time I'm saying "Bella, come here" just as we've practiced, but this time she is selectively not listening. I finally yell "NOOOO!", not because I was saying "no" to her, but because her little life had just flashed before my eyes when I saw the car, and that did it. She spun around, and high tailed it back to me. (Needless to say we have a lot more practicing to do! And I'm teaching "Wait" post haste too!) I would say running toward the street is DANGEROUS!! As anyone would....not "happy safe and comfortable" behavior.

When people say "pack leader", it may mean different things to different people, but I think the operative word is "leader"....rule maker. If you let a child play with grandma the same way he plays with dad, or basically allow him to do whatever, whenever, you will have an unruly, unpleasant child. IMO, people say "you're the pack leader" in the same way they tell a mother "you're the mother!" Obviously, though I think of Bella as my furdaughter, she is not my daughter, so "you're the pack leader" is a figure of speech to say "you're the parent/boss/rule maker". And rightly so. Pets, of all ages (just as children of all ages, and some adults I know too) will test their boundaries in any new environment. Ex: Bella knows she doesn't eat people food at my house, but when we go visit my dad (who does give his dog bites), she has to check and see if she can get away with it there. Testing boundaries has nothing to do with taking over the world, but if you allow that pet (or child) to be in charge (be the "dominant" one) they will take it and run! [Can you see how we use different words with our pets, but mean exactly the same thing? To be dominant simply means "to rule, or to control". If your dog sees that they can do whatever, whenever with you, and that another dog doesn't stop it from doing whatever, whenever with them...your dog probably will do whatever, whenever to a degree. If the OP's older dog had turned and bitten that puppy back and then growled, guaranteed, the puppy would definitely play a lot nicer with that dog. If an older dog doesn't allow a younger dog, say, to push it out of the way to get to the food bowl, the younger dog will learn that the older dog isn't going to let it push it around. The older dog is in control of that situation....a.k.a. "dominant" in that particular situation.]

I feel a little exasparated that this needs to be explained. Perhaps you are taking things too literally.